MMMmmmiles Aircraft
 

Plenty of exposure for Miles Falcon G-AEEG, Miles Magister G-AKPF and Miles Messenger G-AKBO over the past year, principally Pilot Nov. 02 and FlyPast (current issue) Feb03.

Miles built thousands of aircraft - Magisters alone numbered more than 1200 yet only 3 or 4 remain in airworthy or potentially airworthy condition.

Miles Monarch at White Waltham - This is owned by Dr. Ian Dalziel. For some extraordinary reason he seems happy to allow it to rot away in the black hangar rather than sell it to somebody who will ensure is salvation.

The same, to a lesser extent maybe, is true of Bob Mitchel's Monarch and Whitney Straight that languish in a shed somewhere at Cosford.

Can I appeal to all out there who may have the inside track on these 2 guys?

Despite what both might say, neither will do anything to restore their aircraft to airworthy condition.

Unfortunately, unlike fine wines, old wooden planes definately do not improve with age in a dark damp environment.

The RAF reserve collection has a Miles Hawk trainer. It has no RAF history yet wears a spurious camouflage scheme.

It has deteriorated significantly over the years.

What use is it to them?

Why don't they sell it and put the cash towards one of their many restoration projects?

I am keen to save old Miles Aircraft for posterity. Any help will be appreciated.

If anybody has any old photos, anecdotes etc. relative to the Falcon and Maggie I shall be keen to hear from them.

HP

Hawk Speed Six, G-ADGP, is still flying on a regular basis. Hopefully the aircraft will attend a few fly-ins and airshows in 2003!

Hairy,

While I agree with you to some extent, the owner can do exactly as he or she pleases. To quote Spencer Flack, when berated for painting G-FIRE all red "....when you own a Spit, you can paint it whatever colour you want!"

I worked on the only Miles Student for a while while it was being operated by a major vintage operator in the mid 80s. Sleek looking aircraft.

MMMmmmiles
 

A Happy New Year to you and all!

Bus429 - If only we were talking about somebody who had restored a Miles Aircraft and merely painted it a funny colour....

We are talking about deterioration here. Maybe the Brighton Pier movement will finally get the dosh they need when it has all been washed ashore and been burnt as firewood.

We will then, at best, only see a replica of the original because the unique original has gone.

What I am saddened by is something quite different. The money, the will and the expertise is there now to save these machines from an uncertain future - the future for Brighton Pier was uncertain until it collapsed through neglect.

I would dance a cartwheel if a formation comprising these machines flew over and they were all painted pink.

The owners can certainly do what they want with them. I agree with you 100% on that. They can burn them if they want. However, their neglect of our aviation heritage, which they have been fortunate enough to acquire and maybe had the best of intentions at that time, is lamentable when a certain flying future /public display is an option.

I think you misunderstood my original post and invite you to read it again.

Meanwhile, if any of you are interested in Miles Aircraft, please visit www.miles-aircraft.com

For the princely sum of £17.50 p.a. you can join The Miles Aircraft Collection, will receive an excellent quarterly(ish!) Journal and learn more about this excellent British company who made so many fine aircraft.

The last aircraft built by Miles? A Bristol Boxkite!

They built the Mag Men machine which now resides at Shuttleworth and thus marked the end of chapter of our aviation history.

Lets hope that our future generations can see as many flying examples of Miles Aircraft as possible.

HP

Hairyplane,

I can recall seeing G-AFBS cartwheeling on arrival at Blackbushe in the '60's. Believe it may have have at some time been owned by comedian Dick Emery.

Also in the sixties, I discovered another Hawk Trainer (G-AKKR) in the hangar at a private strip at Godalming, (Stilemans, Munstead?) later to be seen again in the Manchester Air & Space Museum. At the time it belonged to the wife of the owner (Mr. Jones?) of Cessna 310 G-APNJ, now at the engineering college at Shoreham.

My last sighting of a Miles was of RG333 at Duxford in 2001 in formation with a DC-3. The Duke of Kent had inaugurated a new exhibition in the Army Museum and the Messenger was on the programme complete with invasion stripes.

Thought this all might be of interest. Can supply dates if it would help further.

MMMmmmiles Aircraft
 

Thanks, atb1943, you bought back many pleasant memories.
I did my first solo in G-AFBS at Denham in the mid 50's after 4 1/2 hrs. dual!
I think you are perhaps mistaken on a couple of points as I believe Dick Emery owned one of the old Experimental Flying Group machines and kept it at Fairoaks. I believe it was G-AKAT and painted light blue with a red rudder. Although it could have been the same machine at Blackbushe?
The other point is that Roy Mills and myself operated G-AKKR out of Elstree in the -60's as a group machine and when the ARB came out with thier infamous edict on wooden airplanes Roy donated it to the RAF museum together with a lot of spares, to be lost forever. It was painted black with yellow trim when we had it. I believe the machine in Surrey may have been another one?
I did visit Duxford a few years ago and found a very pleasant young man rebuilding G-AFBS to non-flyable status and I also went to Manchester to renew aquaintances with G-AKKR.
Miles built some great machines and the Maggie was a great trainer and character builder. A few spins with at least one flat spin would make you a believer. A go-round with full flap when heavy on a hot day was also rather interesting. On G-AKKR we deleted a couple of sections of flap by removing the actuating rods and taping them up which made it a bit better on a go-round. It is still in that configeration as the RAF museum didn't know how it should be, they just painted it. The instrument panels are also non standard.
I must return to the UK one day and try and get a flight in one of the survivors.
Regards, BaD.

A good friend of mine owns several important old motor cars, including the red single seat Bentley that held (or even holds) the lap record for the outer circuit ao Brooklands.
His attitude is that he is the temporary custodian of these cars and it is his DUTY to look after them so that coming generations may appreciate them too.
Following some of the previous remarks, I cannot help feeling George is right on the money and others should learn from him!

Hairyplane,

Your comments prompt me to make a search of my cellar (Platz fuer 16 Personen) to seek out my records.

Let you know what I find.

Best regards

MMMmmmiles
 

Hi Boris,

Your friend and I are like-minded. We are but the temporary custodians of these fine machines and I do agree that it is our duty to preserve them for future generations.

I remember in the 80's a colleague was given a 'time-warp' Healey Tickford. It had belonged to a vicar. It was lovely and just needed some skilled sympathetic restoration. I was so envious!He had persuaded the vicars widow that he would restore it to its former glory and put it back on the road. He stripped it out, 'rubbed' it down with an orbital sander (Oops! went through the ally body in a few places..) but then realised what he had taken on and hadn't got the money, the space or the skills. It sat in his front garden over the winter and his wife persuaded him to get the scrappy to collect it eventually....

In the case of aircraft - the industry is riddled with dishonesty as well as dreamers.

There are those who tout for artefacts - Miles Aircraft parts specifically in the case of a regular advertiser - by posing as enthusiasts yet are just in it for the money. They hope to find something really juicy for tuppence, safe in the knowledge that a real enthusiast will pay a lot more.

Case in point - 1 Magister fuselage with a wonderful racing history and a perfect basis for another flyer - sold with a raft of original/ rare bits to somebody for a 'few hundred pounds' on the promise that he would restore it to fly.

This bloke did a really good job because he had joined The Miles Collection, even went to a few pub meets with the 'inner sanctum' and generally got well 'in the know', lying his way into the Maggie project, bought it and was never heard of again.

That was until he claimed 'hard times' recently and offered it to me for £8000. It was then bought (for less than it was offered to me but still a handsome profit was made) by somebody intent on selling it to a Museum - to form the basis of a static exhibit (groan..)

I suspect that the volunteers couldn't raise the enormous price requested.

The new owner then contacted me, claimed 'hard times' (a familiar ploy?!) and offered it to me for a ridiculous sum of money.

These people are effectively working against the preservation movement because they hoard vital parts in the expectation of a profit.

In the case of the Maggie - a potential flyer - they didn't care a stuff who bought it or what happened to it as long as there was a profit in it.

I tackled the original purchaser of the Maggie fuz. He fired off a 'you'r an ars@h@le' E'Mail at me!!

Well that's one way of explaining how you feel I suppose...!

I had exposed him. He didn't like it.

I then see him featured recently in a Southern Hemisphere magazine. Read the article and you would shake his hand warmly for his 'contribution to the preservation of old aircraft in England. '

They don't know him 'Down Under' yet! Watch this space....

HP

Speedbird48

Apols, my previous pointed at Hairyplane was in fact for you. While I am searching the vault, how about this for Miles visitors, to Denham on 21 Sept 1958:
G-ADMW Hawk Major
G-AJDR Hawk Trainer 3
G-AJZH ditto
G-AKPL ditto
G-AJKS Gemini
G-AKWZ Messenger

It must have been a special day, because Spitfire AB910 and Hawker Tom-Tit G-AFTA also visited.

Heathrow also had a field day that same day, with five different RAF aircraft present, a Comet 2, Victor, Javelin, Beverley and Hunter!

An event at Kidlington on 24 April '59 attracted 14 Miles aircraft, including Monarch G-AIDE and Whitney Straight G-AERV.

I also noted that Student G-APLK was at Blackbushe during Farnborough week 1958 with 'fluorescent red wingtips'. I even photographed it with my box camera. It was the day after the Seahawk crashed there whilst part of the Navy team displaying at the show.

Oh yes, and G-AFBS crashed on landing after circling low (I wrote) at Blackbushe on Sunday, 14 June 1959. It was taken to Orion's hangar.

brgds

Seem to recall that Dick Emery owned the very appropriate 'ITN!

I also recall seeing the lovely Monarch in the Surrey Aviation hangar at Biggin - always stuffed to the rafters with delightful antiques, that hangar... I think I heard recently that Cobby Moore has moved to another airfield.

It is sad that these aircraft appear to be mouldering away. Keep at 'em Hairy! Incidently, does Bob Mitchell still have his fleet of PTs? Haven't seen any of them for years...

Treads...

I think that Hawk Speed Six was the one that we used to race at Bagington Kings cup. We used to top overhaul the engine before each years Kings Cup
Ron Payne ( Derby Aviation )used fly it in the late 50's.

We also had other fine Miles products at Burnaston including the Magisters, Aerovans, Messengers,Geminis, Aries, and Marathons
Ah mmmiles
:D :D

I think there used to be a surviving Marathon or two in Japan... anyone know if they still exist?

MMMmmmiles
 

Facinating postings for a Miles nut to read! Thank you and keep 'em coming!

Treadi - A Miles Marathon survivor? Wow! I doubt it very much but if there is even the remotest possibility it should be explored.

Can you provide any further information?

HP

One of the former Far East Airlines/All Nippon Marathons used to be displayed on top of the terminal building at Nagoya Airport. I have a vague memory that parts of one (either this or its companion JA6010) ended up with the Tokyo Metropolitan College of Aeronautical Engineering, but a list of their holdings dating back ten years or so doesn't mention it, though the college does have an immaculately restored Chrislea Super Ace and Auster Autocar, so they may have a feel for classic British aircraft!

The last Marathons I can recall seeing were in a scrapyard alongside the A3 at Portsmouth, and were probably those that lingered outside the old Miles hangar at Shoreham (in which at the same time your Falcon lurked in a dark corner, Hairyplane, still wearing its Swedish markings). As a schoolboy aircraft spotter I sheltered under the wing of one of the Marathons on a depressingly wet and grey day (much like every day lately) in 1960, to witness the arrival of a dayglo-bedecked U.S.-registered Beech Super 18. The bespectacled gent flying it readily agreed to me taking a photo of it, and kindly offered to pose alongside. I declined, not wanting to obscure the aircraft. It was many years later, in conversation with George Miles, that I came to regret my rashness when I discovered that the pilot whose portrait I had rejected was none other than Bill Lear, coming to talk with the Miles brothers about design work on his SAAC-23 jet, which later became the Lear Jet 23. Ah, the folly of youth!

Now, here's a piece of useless Marathon lore with which to bore your flying club chums: back in the 1950s the father of airshow and aerobatic pilot Vic Norman (he of Rendcombe Aerodrome and Utterly Butterly Stearman fame) held the concession for Bal Ami jukeboxes and used Marathon G-AMGX as a 'the world's first flying jukebox showroom'.

Turning to Hairy's original post, whilst it's sad that several Miles aircraft are seemingly in limbo in the UK, we do have the prospect of seeing a long-absent Hawk Major and Whitney Straight flying again, along with the Sparrowhawk recreation and (albeit static only) the unique ex-Lindbergh Mohawk. The arrival of another Hawk Major — and one with a fascinating history — is imminent, for restoration and eventual return to its overseas owner. Now, if only someone would stumble upon the restorable remains of an Aerovan…and what wouldn't you give to see Percy Blamire's 'low-drag' Gemini and Brian Iles's M.18 the going round the course alongside your stable in one of Shuttleworth's demonstration races, eh Hairyplane?

Looks like probably curtains for the Marathon then... A great pity.

Couple of other relics - can recall when I was 8 or so in the very early seventies, passing a Messenger or Gemini at a garage on the A30 somewhere in Cornwall... I suppose that's long since been scrapped?

Also as Schoolboy Spotter around 1978 I came across a pair of Gemini wings in the garden of a house by Redhill Aerdrome. Can't recall the reg now ('JTG perhaps?) - one of the mags at the time said they were for a scale Mossie replica... whatever became of that?!!

GotTheTshirt

Yes G-ADGP is Ron Paine's old Hawk Speed Six and is still flying pretty regularly. Ron lives close to the aircrafts current home field and had been a great help in the ongoing restoration and tweeking of the aircraft. The aircraft will be up at Baginton at some point this year and hopefully will be flying in the Coventry airshow at the end of May. I hope you will come and see it again.

MMMmmmiles
 

Aerohack,

Stop it! Stop it!

I'm coming up 50 and you clearly don't care about my blood pressure (or inadvertant valve openings!).

The M18 won't fly again and won't be sold. I've tried....!

The Hawk (bugg@r, missed that one....) being restored currently is actually owned by a couple of Brits and they intend to keep it here. It did come from the Smithsonian.

Have you drooled over the Falcon in the FlyPast Feb03 centrespread yet or does it only blow the frocks up of me and a few other afficianados?

I actually think that it is one of the best looking aircraft ever, but then I am biased...

I am enjoying this thread.

It will hopefully prompt Bob Mitchell to either get his tools out or flog his Whitney Straight and Monarch.

THe WS from Ireland (Ron Souch has it now?How is it coming on?) was a horror. However I'm sure it will end up gorgeous (and hopefully in my hangar...!)

Thank you all. Keep the stuff coming and I won't need the Viagra any more. What a sad B@st@rd I am...

HP

David Ogilvy did a very nice, brief piece on the Maggie for me last year. I ran it in the October issue of my new comic, with a lovely Gordon Bain photograph of G-AKPF (when it was in Adrian Brook's hands) on the Cover.

(I am talking about AOPA's magazine, General Aviation - have you seen it Hairyplane?)

Hairy, sit down, take a long, cool drink and...

...what about the late Russell Winn's M.75 Aries? I think that's in a museum somewhere in Ireland. Aerohack will know!

Saw one or two of Hairy's delightful treasures flying at OW in May - in fact I took quite a nice pic of the Maggie from behind as you started up, which we used as a demo at work to illustrate how well digital pics can be printed on our whizzo printer. That and a pic of TFC's Spit XIV have started many a conversation about old aeroplanes...!

Where will the Sparrowhawk end up? Will it be original spec or its Sparrowjet config?

Nothing sad about liking Miles... Percival... de Havilland...

Time to go to the pub!