Ju88 shot down Kings Somborne 21 August 1940
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Ju88 shot down Kings Somborne 21 August 1940
On 21st August 1940, 2 Spitfires from 234 Squadron shot down a Ju88 which crashed and burnt out near Kings Somborne, Hampshire.
A photo shows RAF personnel walking back to their vehicle after viewing the burnt out wreckage in the middle of a mustard field.
The mustard field was mentioned in a contemporary newspaper report, but although the vicar offered to have the men buried in the local churchyard, the remains appear to have been loaded into the back of an Army truck and that is the last record of their identity.
On 22nd August 4 Germans were buried in Grave O74 in Chartham cemetery.
They were then reburied as Unknowns in Cannock Chase in Block 9 Grave 48.
Circumstantially, there appear to be no other group of Luftwaffe unknown casualties for 21/22 August, but obviously to be sure, I need older heads to clarify if Chartham Hospital was used as a "collection point" for Luftwaffe casualties from the BoB?
I can't believe they would have been taken to Churchill as evdience of Fighter Command successes, but why Chartham from Kings Somborne?
60024/67 FF Obergefr Gerhard FREUDE 14.10.18 Koslitz, Luben
60024/4 BO Oberlt Max-Dankwart BIRKENSTOCK 16.12.15 Neustettin, Stettin
60024/64 BF Uffz Rudolf SCHULZE 29.9.19 Liegnitz
60024/79 BS Gefr Franz BECKER 18.1.19 Hurth, Koln
Max-Dankwart Birkenstock was the Bomb aimer, Freude was the pilot, Schulze was the radio operator/upper gunner and Becker was the rear gunner (usually in the under fuselage gondola, facing aft) are reported killed.
Serial number of the plane and individual code (B3+?H) is not known, but if parts of it can be found, there is always chance serial might be found on a component or a part plate. Time and place of crash is given "Kings Somborne 14:15 hrs".
21 August 1940: 1./KG54 Junkers Ju 88 A-1. Shot down by 2 Spitfires (flown by Sqdn Ldr J.S. O’Brien and Pilot Officer R.F.T. "Bob" Doe) of No.234 Squadron, during an armed reconnaissance over southern England. Jettisoned its bombs but crashed in flames and burned out at King’s Somborne at about 2.15 p.m.
Oberleutnant Max-Dankwart Birkenstock,
Obergefreiter Gerhard Freude,
Unteroffizier Rudolf Schulze, and
Gefreiter Franz Becker all missing. Aircraft 100% write-off.
A memorial stone inscribed to 'To 4 Unknown German Airmen Aug 23 1940' was erected alongside a lane on nearby Hoplands Farm."
I have frequently seen and participated in a few, searches for relatives of Bomber Command crews whenever wreckage is uncovered on the Continent and it seems only right to do as much for those once our enemies.
I understand this may be covered in Vol 2 of Luftwaffe Wreck Archives and also Andy Saunders "Finding the Foe" Chapter 8 but corroboration rather than circumstantial evidence may accod these airmen a known resting place.
I need to link Kings Somborne to Chartham cemetery (why there?) and on to Cannock.
Proof is what I need, can any here assist?
A photo shows RAF personnel walking back to their vehicle after viewing the burnt out wreckage in the middle of a mustard field.
The mustard field was mentioned in a contemporary newspaper report, but although the vicar offered to have the men buried in the local churchyard, the remains appear to have been loaded into the back of an Army truck and that is the last record of their identity.
On 22nd August 4 Germans were buried in Grave O74 in Chartham cemetery.
They were then reburied as Unknowns in Cannock Chase in Block 9 Grave 48.
Circumstantially, there appear to be no other group of Luftwaffe unknown casualties for 21/22 August, but obviously to be sure, I need older heads to clarify if Chartham Hospital was used as a "collection point" for Luftwaffe casualties from the BoB?
I can't believe they would have been taken to Churchill as evdience of Fighter Command successes, but why Chartham from Kings Somborne?
60024/67 FF Obergefr Gerhard FREUDE 14.10.18 Koslitz, Luben
60024/4 BO Oberlt Max-Dankwart BIRKENSTOCK 16.12.15 Neustettin, Stettin
60024/64 BF Uffz Rudolf SCHULZE 29.9.19 Liegnitz
60024/79 BS Gefr Franz BECKER 18.1.19 Hurth, Koln
Max-Dankwart Birkenstock was the Bomb aimer, Freude was the pilot, Schulze was the radio operator/upper gunner and Becker was the rear gunner (usually in the under fuselage gondola, facing aft) are reported killed.
Serial number of the plane and individual code (B3+?H) is not known, but if parts of it can be found, there is always chance serial might be found on a component or a part plate. Time and place of crash is given "Kings Somborne 14:15 hrs".
21 August 1940: 1./KG54 Junkers Ju 88 A-1. Shot down by 2 Spitfires (flown by Sqdn Ldr J.S. O’Brien and Pilot Officer R.F.T. "Bob" Doe) of No.234 Squadron, during an armed reconnaissance over southern England. Jettisoned its bombs but crashed in flames and burned out at King’s Somborne at about 2.15 p.m.
Oberleutnant Max-Dankwart Birkenstock,
Obergefreiter Gerhard Freude,
Unteroffizier Rudolf Schulze, and
Gefreiter Franz Becker all missing. Aircraft 100% write-off.
A memorial stone inscribed to 'To 4 Unknown German Airmen Aug 23 1940' was erected alongside a lane on nearby Hoplands Farm."
I have frequently seen and participated in a few, searches for relatives of Bomber Command crews whenever wreckage is uncovered on the Continent and it seems only right to do as much for those once our enemies.
I understand this may be covered in Vol 2 of Luftwaffe Wreck Archives and also Andy Saunders "Finding the Foe" Chapter 8 but corroboration rather than circumstantial evidence may accod these airmen a known resting place.
I need to link Kings Somborne to Chartham cemetery (why there?) and on to Cannock.
Proof is what I need, can any here assist?
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I know this location well... the following may be of interest:
http://www.astoft2.co.uk/hants/hoplandsmemorial.htm
War Memorial: Farley Mount German Airmen (WMR-21495)
Kings Somborne Junkers Ju 88A-1 Memorial
Ju 88 A-1 21 August 1940, Kings Somborne [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum
(Note especially the last comments on the page).
Now, when I read your post, I instantly had a feeling that another stone has been placed alongside the first, with the crew names on, but I can't find a record of this online... I'll go there today, if time permits, and have a look.
http://www.astoft2.co.uk/hants/hoplandsmemorial.htm
War Memorial: Farley Mount German Airmen (WMR-21495)
Kings Somborne Junkers Ju 88A-1 Memorial
Ju 88 A-1 21 August 1940, Kings Somborne [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum
(Note especially the last comments on the page).
Now, when I read your post, I instantly had a feeling that another stone has been placed alongside the first, with the crew names on, but I can't find a record of this online... I'll go there today, if time permits, and have a look.
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Ju88 shot down Kings Somborne 21 August 1940
ICARE9
Circumstantially, there appear to be no other group of Luftwaffe unknown casualties for 21/22 August, but obviously to be sure, I need older heads to clarify if Chartham Hospital was used as a "collection point" for Luftwaffe casualties from the BoB?
RE: Chartham Hospital and Luftwaffe casualties from the Battle of Britain - have you seen...
War diary of "Ken Hulbert, RAMC (1) - Battle of Britain by Anne Richards"
BBC - WW2 People's War - Ken Hulbert, RAMC (1) - Battle of Britain
Sara
Circumstantially, there appear to be no other group of Luftwaffe unknown casualties for 21/22 August, but obviously to be sure, I need older heads to clarify if Chartham Hospital was used as a "collection point" for Luftwaffe casualties from the BoB?
RE: Chartham Hospital and Luftwaffe casualties from the Battle of Britain - have you seen...
War diary of "Ken Hulbert, RAMC (1) - Battle of Britain by Anne Richards"
BBC - WW2 People's War - Ken Hulbert, RAMC (1) - Battle of Britain
Sara
Thread Starter
Thanks, the circle is getting closer as this does clarify the use of Chartham for BoB casualties and that it was close to Manston.
4 known dead on 21 August taken away and no further known of what became of them.
4 Unknown Germans were buried in Chartham cemetery in O74 on 22nd August
(and Chartham cemetery casualties in CWGC do show that Alfred Hoffman another Luftwaffe member was buried in Chartham on 15 September and later reburied in Cannock.)
Those buried in Cannock as Unknowns have a Date of Death as 22 August which was the date they were BURIED.
No other 4 Luftwaffe dead are unaccounted for on 21 or 22 August.
If the 4 in Chartham DIDN'T come from Hampshire, where then did they come from?
What else could have happened to the 4 from Hampshire?
4 known dead on 21 August taken away and no further known of what became of them.
4 Unknown Germans were buried in Chartham cemetery in O74 on 22nd August
(and Chartham cemetery casualties in CWGC do show that Alfred Hoffman another Luftwaffe member was buried in Chartham on 15 September and later reburied in Cannock.)
Those buried in Cannock as Unknowns have a Date of Death as 22 August which was the date they were BURIED.
No other 4 Luftwaffe dead are unaccounted for on 21 or 22 August.
If the 4 in Chartham DIDN'T come from Hampshire, where then did they come from?
What else could have happened to the 4 from Hampshire?
W/C Bob Doe featured a lot in documentaries about the BoB until his death in 2010. I remember a programme he featured in when he was running his garage around the mid 80s, when it was suggested he was one of the highest scoring BoB pilots . He good naturedly shrugged off the suggestion. He was totally self effacing and very interesting person.
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While I cannot offer any extra evidence about what happened to the crew, I can offer an anecdote about the combat.
My uncle Bill 'Tommy' Tucker, who was an inspector at Supermarine and lived in Braishfield which is just to the south of Kings Somborne, told me that he was on nights and witnessed a Ju 88 being shot down by a Spitfire from the back garden during the Battle of Britain and that the Spitfire pilot subsequently did a victory roll.
Andy Saunders shows that the Ju 88 had routed via Salisbury and Romsey, which is only a couple of miles from Braishfield. So this is likely to be the same event, as the Spitfires came from Middle Wallop.
Apparently the locals took great delight in recovering souvenirs and in the pub someone was showing off a flying boot with a foot still in it.
It would indeed be good if this mystery can be solved and the crew given marked graves.
RD
My uncle Bill 'Tommy' Tucker, who was an inspector at Supermarine and lived in Braishfield which is just to the south of Kings Somborne, told me that he was on nights and witnessed a Ju 88 being shot down by a Spitfire from the back garden during the Battle of Britain and that the Spitfire pilot subsequently did a victory roll.
Andy Saunders shows that the Ju 88 had routed via Salisbury and Romsey, which is only a couple of miles from Braishfield. So this is likely to be the same event, as the Spitfires came from Middle Wallop.
Apparently the locals took great delight in recovering souvenirs and in the pub someone was showing off a flying boot with a foot still in it.
It would indeed be good if this mystery can be solved and the crew given marked graves.
RD
Thread Starter
Thanks all for your contributions.
I have the first 8 volumes of Luftwaffe Crash Archives on order but don't get back to the UK until mid November from our place in Mojacar.
RD's description isn't too far removed from fact, and I'm fairly sure that the photo of a smouldering Ju 88 in a mustard field with RAF pilots walking away includes Bob Doe who did visit the scene, being not all that far from King's Somborne.
The 4 crew who died were identified but after they were removed by Army lorry, no more is known about them.
At present I have no way of linking these 4 to the 4 buried the next day at Chartham.
234 were in 10 Group, Manston/Chartham was 11 Group, so to find that they were taken almost 200 miles from Hampshire to Kent is the puzzle.
Another Luftwaffe burial took place in Chartham for A Hoffman, who was also taken from there to Cannock.
However, both an Alfred and an Andreas Hoffman were both killed on 15 September, so which one?
It does establish that Luftwaffe dead were buried at Chartham, but why there so far from Hampshire?
Hopefully Chartham Parish Council who have responsibility for the cemetery may have some answers in their archives, but it's a big ask 76 years on.....
I have the first 8 volumes of Luftwaffe Crash Archives on order but don't get back to the UK until mid November from our place in Mojacar.
RD's description isn't too far removed from fact, and I'm fairly sure that the photo of a smouldering Ju 88 in a mustard field with RAF pilots walking away includes Bob Doe who did visit the scene, being not all that far from King's Somborne.
The 4 crew who died were identified but after they were removed by Army lorry, no more is known about them.
At present I have no way of linking these 4 to the 4 buried the next day at Chartham.
234 were in 10 Group, Manston/Chartham was 11 Group, so to find that they were taken almost 200 miles from Hampshire to Kent is the puzzle.
Another Luftwaffe burial took place in Chartham for A Hoffman, who was also taken from there to Cannock.
However, both an Alfred and an Andreas Hoffman were both killed on 15 September, so which one?
It does establish that Luftwaffe dead were buried at Chartham, but why there so far from Hampshire?
Hopefully Chartham Parish Council who have responsibility for the cemetery may have some answers in their archives, but it's a big ask 76 years on.....
In the 1950s as a schoolboy in Winchester I came across this stone while cycling along the remote track along which it stands.
I was mad keen on aeroplanes at that time. The additional plaque with names had not been added, so it remained a morbid mystery.
I remember quite a lot of soul searching as war memories were still fresh in the populace. I had no idea that I would become a pilot in the RAF, or that I would one day be living in Germany.
On an impulse I looked up this stone online today, on several sites including this one. It has closed a circle for me. I had a wonderful peacetime career in the RAF ( a time for which others are arguing for cold war medals in another thread). I can now appreciate the value of peacetime in itself. Stay safe.
I was mad keen on aeroplanes at that time. The additional plaque with names had not been added, so it remained a morbid mystery.
I remember quite a lot of soul searching as war memories were still fresh in the populace. I had no idea that I would become a pilot in the RAF, or that I would one day be living in Germany.
On an impulse I looked up this stone online today, on several sites including this one. It has closed a circle for me. I had a wonderful peacetime career in the RAF ( a time for which others are arguing for cold war medals in another thread). I can now appreciate the value of peacetime in itself. Stay safe.
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