Help with Lancaster crew photo

[QuePee]

For many years I have been trying to track down a photograph of my great uncle, he was a Sgt in the RAF based at RAF Waltham (Grimsby) with 100 Sqdn. Sadly he was killed on a raid on Cologne in Lancaster ND388, under circumstances that can only be described as tragic. It was Christmas Eve 1944, it was his 21st birthday and it was his 30th and last operation........the aircraft never returned.

I have managed just recently to get hold of a low resolution copy of a crew photograph, not quite the same crew as on that fateful night but only one crew member different and I was wondering if anyone could help me locate a better copy. I obtained this one from a German website, I have emailed the site but have not received any reply, maybe a language thing. Does anyone have a copy of this picture or can anyone suggest where I might be able to obtain one.

I have already posted this on the Key Publishing Historic forum and the guys there suggested maybe someone on here could help me.

Many thanks in anticipation

QP

[DaveReidUK]

I have emailed the site but have not received any reply, maybe a language thing

There's a street address and landline/mobile numbers for the webmaster here: Technikmuseum Köln.

A snail mail letter might produce the best results.

[Icare9]

ND388 was involved in a heavy landing accident 21 Feb 1944.
See 1944 Lincolnshire aviation Incident Logs. - BCAR.org.uk
Flying Officer VLB Jones and crew unhurt and aircraft repaired on site.

However, their aircraft (obviously NOT ND388) was shot down just 3 nights later on 24 February and he plus 4 others of his crew now lie together.
JONES, VERNON LLEWELYN BOWEN. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: Pilot. Service No:133632. Date of Death: 24/02/1944.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: Grave 4. Cemetery: MARLY COMMUNAL CEMETERY.

ND388 is recorded as having completed 96 Ops.

As regards the loss of ND388 the crew were buried at Rheinberg having been brought from the original burial site near Cologne in July 1948.

I realise you know the crew details, but it might help others if they recognise other Names..
MORGAN, JAMES ISLWYN. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Air Gunner. Service No: 1836700. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 22.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 17. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Daniel and Ceinwen Morgan, of Bonymaen, Swansea.

DAWSON, ALBERT. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Flight Engineer. Service No: 1624137. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 30.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 13. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Husband of Winifred Dawson, of Oldham, Lancashire.

McGUIRE, ERNEST. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Trade: Radio Operator (Air). Service No: 1777473. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 20.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 16. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Robert McGuire, and of Amy Victoria McGuire, of Felling, Gateshead, Co. Durham.

CROMPTON, FRANK. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Trade: Air Gunner. Service No: 1593722. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 19.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 18. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Charles Henry and Nellie Crompton, of Hull.

GRIFFITHS, OSCAR. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: Pilot. Service No: 175662. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 23.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 12. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Lewis Randell Griffiths and Gwladys Ann Griffiths, of Caemansel, Glamorgan.

COZENS, ALAN DUNCAN. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Trade: Navigator. Service No: 1601560. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 21.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 2. J. 14. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of George and Elizabeth Cozens, of New Milton, Hampshire.

KREWENCHUK, METRO ALEX. Rank: Warrant Officer Class II. Trade: Air Bomber. Service No: R/178776. Date of Death: 24/12/1944. Age: 22.
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force 100 (R.A.F.) Sqdn
Grave Reference: 2. J. 15. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Eutemi Krewenchuk.

As regards the night of the loss, ND388 was fitted with H2S and Fishpond radar and carried 1 x 4,000lb cookie; 6 x 1,000lb Medium Case bombs and 8 x 500lb bombs. It would appear that they had released their bombs, as the crew were able to be individually identified.

The Bomber Command Loss Card also mentions that 4 crew were known to be dead and buried Cologne. 3 unknown also Dead then it mentions "3 aircraft involved" which makes me wonder if there had been a mid air collision with perhaps a shot down aircraft hitting others on the way down. More likely it could simply be that there were 3 aircraft brought down in close proximity so the Germans weren't able to link the crews to specific aircraft...? ND297 has a similar remark about being involved with 2 other crews, as has NG420...

The crash location of NG420 is given as near Sindorf, but that may not have any bearing on ND388, just my speculation which could be totally wrong.

Sorry, I haven't helped with photo, you've been pointed at 100 Sqdn Association and other respected aviation forums, so see what happens.

RAFCommands usually has contributions from Theo Boiten who is a great expert on Luftwaffe kills, but more likely to be flak as Cologne had a tremendous AA ring of defences..

[QuePee]

Many thanks guys for all your suggestions, with a very special thank you to Icare9 for the effort he put into providing me with more detail.

I have just made contact with the Technikmuseum Köln so we will see what develops. I will let you know the outcome.

I plan to contact RAF Commands next.

Thanks again, your help is much appreciated.

QP

[Icare9]

QP: I could have answered on other forums, but PPRuNe is my preference as so many here are helpful.
Have you seen this website? Die Luftwaffenhelfer von Köln
You can translate the page from German if preferred.
It refers to an anti aircraft site that was bombed on 24/25 December and mentions ND388.
More specifically it states that a Lancaster crashed onto their airfield/AA site and in the rear turret was a dead body... and that he saw the papers of a 22 year old Canadian.
CWGC is playing up tonight but although there were 23 RCAF killed that night, I know Krewenchuk was 22.

He then includes a photo of Krewenchuk's headstone.....

Also please note I made a mistake in the Lanc serial of the 2 other aircraft, it should have been NG297, not ND297. Apologies if any problems caused.

[Jhieminga]

I had a quick read of the German page you linked to. What I gathered from the text is that the author was brought to the Butzweilerhof airfield on the morning after the attack on Köln to assist in identifying bodies. He assisted in determining the identity of a body that was found in the rear turret of a Lancaster that had crashed on the field, most likely having been shot down by Flak (ND388). An ID card found on the body in a pouch below his sweater confirmed that this was 22 year old M.A. Krewenchuk. It is not clear to the author why they were asked to assist in this, the Bergungscommando took care of the rest. The author was 16 years old at the time and has since visited Krewenchuk's grave, the photo on the page showing the headstone was taken by him in 2008. He mentions in the text that Christmas was definitively over for him after that encounter.

[Icare9]

That was my initial reading, but Krewenchuk was their bomb aimer, not rear gunner (unless something had happened to their rear gunner before being shot down.
I believe the ID documents were Krewenchuk, in addition to the rear gunner having been pulled out from the turret.
But I don't read German fluently, and the author of the text certainly centred on Krewenchuk.
I read it as him describing two incidents, the rear gunner in his turret and then seeing ID docs of the bomb aimer, as I wouldn't ordinarily expect him to be in the rear turret when they were in the vicinity of the target, where he'd have been needed to release their bomb load.
But I bow to your better understanding of the article.

[QuePee]

Just a quick update from me after the very helpful posts provided by various people on this thread.

Thanks to your help I have made contact with a very helpful person in Koln who has already provided me with more information. Unfortunately not the photo I hoping to get but a great deal of of information which will prove valuable in further researches. When the complete story had been unravelled I will maybe post it here for all to see.

Thanks to all who have helped.


QP

[Icare9]

I think we'd like you to, please.
Part of the reason many help with enquiries is we want to see what help we have been!
To ask for help and not let us know would be a little unkind : )

[Jhieminga]

Originally Posted by Icare9

That was my initial reading, but Krewenchuk was their bomb aimer, not rear gunner (unless something had happened to their rear gunner before being shot down.

I noticed the same discrepancy and although my German is also far from perfect I am pretty certain about the translation. The author never actually mentions that the remains are of the rear gunner but describes how they found a body 'partway in the rear turret' and goes on to describe how they found the ID on this body.

The way I see it this could be a clue to something having happened prior to the crash causing the bomb aimer to be in another position. It could be a result of the crash itself or something else entirely that we'll never know. Some of these stories will remain a mystery forever unfortunately.

And can I echo the previous comment: please do post more about this story if you can.

[QuePee]

As long as I know that people are interested I will keep this thread updated as information becomes available.

My contact in Germany points out in reference to the post from Icare9 if the quote

The crash location of NG420 is given as near Sindorf, but that may not have any bearing on ND388, just my speculation which could be totally wrong.

actually refers to the town known as Sinnersdorf rather than Sindorf. This apparently would make more sense.

QP

[Icare9]

Thanks for the correction, no clue on German geography apart from the main towns!
That was how it was written in the Loss Card.

Any chance your German contact could refer to the website linked in my Post #5 to verify if he is talking about the rear gunner being identified as Krewenchuk, or is it two separate references, the rear gunner in his turret and later seeing ID papers for Krewenchuk, thus not necessarily being the rear gunner, but another body?

F/Sgt Crompton was listed as being their rear gunner.

Always worth an "ask" of the RCAF Archives to see if they have further details on ND388 in Krewenchuks casualty or personnel files.

[QuePee]

I promised to keep this thread updated as more info became available, so here is the latest.

Despite my being overly pessimistic about the chances of getting my hands on a better quality copy of the photo in the initial post.....I have a positive result. A poster on another forum saw my original post and put me in contact with a person who had a copy of that photo. He did not know who the crew were but now we know, he has promised to get it copied and to send it to me.

To add to the story we have now identified the location where the tail section fell, to within a 100m or so but the quest goes on to identify where the rest of the aircraft fell. If and when I have that info I will update this thread.

Thank to everyone for their help so far, it is much appreciated.


QP

[Icare9]

Thanks, QP - any chance you could refer your contacts to my thread in AH&N on King's Somborne Ju 88 crew? I'm trying to confirm the identities of 4 buried in Chartham cemetery Kent on 22 August are the same as those shot doen the day before in Hampshire.

[QuePee]

Originally Posted by Icare9

Thanks, QP - any chance you could refer your contacts to my thread in AH&N on King's Somborne Ju 88 crew? I'm trying to confirm the identities of 4 buried in Chartham cemetery Kent on 22 August are the same as those shot doen the day before in Hampshire.

Icare9,

I will ask him although I suspect he may not be able to help. His area of interest and research is the city of Koln, it's history and development.

QP

[Petet]

I have posted an enquiry relating to this topic on the thread mentioned in Post 1 (Lancaster crew photo help needed.)

If anyone can help, please could you get in touch

Regards

Pete

[Mick44]

Lancaster ND388

In 2010 I set about tracing anyone that knew my mother.She served as a WAAF at RAF Walney Isle.To cut a long story short I did trace 2 WAAF's both of whom knew my mother personally,which was an amazing discovery.My mother passed away when I was only 5 years old so I knew little of her RAF days.
I met up with one of the ex WAAF's (May)and her daughter (Barbara)in 2011 and they told me how she had met a Sgt pilot at Walney who was then posted to RAF Hemswell (HCU) to convert to Lancasters.He was commissioned as a Pilot Officer whilst there and then posted to 100 Squadron. His name was Oscar Griffiths.
May and Griff stayed in touch and saw each other whenever they could and intended to marry at the wars end.But as you know from the sad story above Griff and his crew failed to return from a raid on Cologne on Christmas Eve 1944.
The whole story of May and Griff was told by Barbara in the excellent book 'The Warbirds of Walney" including more pictures of Griff and his crew.
The photograph of Griff and his crew mentioned on this forum is printed in the book,the same picture QP was looking for. May had been given a copy of the picture by Griff.However In the book and on the German website( Barbara had supplied a copy for it) it is captioned incorrectly as Griff's rear gunner was Flight Sergeant "Paddy" Nelson.He was replaced for that fateful op by F/S Frank Crompton.
I was fortunate to be able to visit Rheinburg War Cemetery this year whilst on holiday in Germany.Im so glad I did as May sadly passed away last month and the photographs I took and sent her were a great comfort to her. I still keep in touch with Barbara who like myself is keen to find anyone related to Griff's crew in ND388.

QP if you PM me I have information about your great uncle James Morgan that you will be most interested in.

[QuePee]

Mick,

Werner has kindly passed me your email address and I have just sent you a message. I cannot wait to hear what info you have.

Yours in anticipation.

QP