R34 request for plans and info
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R34 request for plans and info
Hi Guys,
I intend to make a model of R34 from balsa wood and tissue paper, non-flying, about 3ft long, and am currently gathering pics and plans.
It doesn't have to be highly accurate but it would be nice to get things right.
Alas not much on the net in terms of actual scale drawings, does anyone have any suggestions of where to look, please?
Many thanks,
henry
I intend to make a model of R34 from balsa wood and tissue paper, non-flying, about 3ft long, and am currently gathering pics and plans.
It doesn't have to be highly accurate but it would be nice to get things right.
Alas not much on the net in terms of actual scale drawings, does anyone have any suggestions of where to look, please?
Many thanks,
henry
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Engineering drawings, both airframe and engines, of the Cardington/Barrow products are at The National Archives along with the accident reports, transatlantic flight, pictures etc.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...tails/r/C48108
A search on R.34 AND Airship brings up the following additional files
The National Archives | Search results:R.34 and airship
Regards
Ross
http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...tails/r/C48108
A search on R.34 AND Airship brings up the following additional files
The National Archives | Search results:R.34 and airship
Regards
Ross
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Apologies for thread drift (as exeperienced in airships perhaps?):
I have just learned from my thread on Jet Blast that OP Henry Crun has made a mechanical Crow and I would be VERY interested and grateful to see video or photos of this!
I have just learned from my thread on Jet Blast that OP Henry Crun has made a mechanical Crow and I would be VERY interested and grateful to see video or photos of this!
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Hi Guys,
Thanks ever so much for those leads. Yes, I already found The Airship Heritage Trust site and the big pics of gondolas will be very useful. Shall also be chasing the other recommendations.
Many thanks to all,
henry
Joyride - Jimmy the Crow, Corbus Crunii, is almost completed, just a little tidying up to do. He is on these pages:
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/544340-jimmy-crow.html
jimmy the crow
Thanks ever so much for those leads. Yes, I already found The Airship Heritage Trust site and the big pics of gondolas will be very useful. Shall also be chasing the other recommendations.
Many thanks to all,
henry
Joyride - Jimmy the Crow, Corbus Crunii, is almost completed, just a little tidying up to do. He is on these pages:
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/544340-jimmy-crow.html
jimmy the crow
He was more R33 than R34 (although they were substantially similar) but you might find bits of use in the Lord Kings Norton archive.
Lord Kings Norton of Wotton Underwood
Cranfield University library has a lot of airship material (hardly surprising when you consider the ancestry and locality), and is worth visiting if you're not too far away. I've always found their librarians very helpful when I've asked for help.
Quite often on eBay or the like a book called "Airship: the story of R34" by Patrick Abbott, published in 1973, comes up and has a lot of photographs in it, as well as line drawings. That's worth tracking down (actually just search on "R34 airship" on eBay and you'll be surprised how much comes up.)
G
Lord Kings Norton of Wotton Underwood
Cranfield University library has a lot of airship material (hardly surprising when you consider the ancestry and locality), and is worth visiting if you're not too far away. I've always found their librarians very helpful when I've asked for help.
Quite often on eBay or the like a book called "Airship: the story of R34" by Patrick Abbott, published in 1973, comes up and has a lot of photographs in it, as well as line drawings. That's worth tracking down (actually just search on "R34 airship" on eBay and you'll be surprised how much comes up.)
G
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Hurrah!
The Patrick Abbott book arrived today and contains a wealth of illustrations and drawings. The dust jacket drawing alone answers most of my detail questions, and the pics inside can be scaled to answer the rest.
Many thanks, Genghis!
mike
The Patrick Abbott book arrived today and contains a wealth of illustrations and drawings. The dust jacket drawing alone answers most of my detail questions, and the pics inside can be scaled to answer the rest.
Many thanks, Genghis!
mike
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Just a quick update on my proposed model of airship R34.
I collected dozens of photos, some drawings, and three books. The books were Transatlantic Airships by John Christopher, Airship by Patrick Abbott (kindly recommended by Genghis the Engineer) and Slide Rule by Nevil Shute for background. I followed up the Kew connection but alas their quote for photocopying was "in excess of five hundred pounds". This might have been reduced by going there in person, but it's a long journey and when there one has a long wait for each item requested, so possibly several days work.
The size of the model was driven by the hoop spacing. I needed to keep the hoops spaced by about an inch so that I could handle them with my clumsy fingers. Any smaller and gluing them individually would have become very difficult. This set the overall hull size to 1m long and 12cm diameter (actually a polygon).
Handling a model of this size would be difficult, so I split it into three sections. The centre section was just over a foot long and based, like the original, on a triangular keel. It started to taper at both ends and was just long enough to support the gondolas. The nose section was fairly short but the tail section was long, had to taper, and needed a cruciform structure to support tail surfaces. The problem was how to attach nose and tail to centre section, each time supporting the weight and distributing the stresses into the respective structures. I wasn't able to come up with a workable solution.
I considered other methods of construction and different sizes, but all met with structural problems.
Finally I made scaled-up photocopies of a side view drawing and all became clear. This monster, at 3ft 3in long and less than 5in diameter was more like a baseball bat than a model airplane. Flimsy balsa-and-tissue fabrication just wasn't going to work.
So, reluctantly, I have abandoned it. Many thanks to all you guys who contributed suggestions.
Hopefully the future will suggest further Crun Robotics type models, more my thing really.
I collected dozens of photos, some drawings, and three books. The books were Transatlantic Airships by John Christopher, Airship by Patrick Abbott (kindly recommended by Genghis the Engineer) and Slide Rule by Nevil Shute for background. I followed up the Kew connection but alas their quote for photocopying was "in excess of five hundred pounds". This might have been reduced by going there in person, but it's a long journey and when there one has a long wait for each item requested, so possibly several days work.
The size of the model was driven by the hoop spacing. I needed to keep the hoops spaced by about an inch so that I could handle them with my clumsy fingers. Any smaller and gluing them individually would have become very difficult. This set the overall hull size to 1m long and 12cm diameter (actually a polygon).
Handling a model of this size would be difficult, so I split it into three sections. The centre section was just over a foot long and based, like the original, on a triangular keel. It started to taper at both ends and was just long enough to support the gondolas. The nose section was fairly short but the tail section was long, had to taper, and needed a cruciform structure to support tail surfaces. The problem was how to attach nose and tail to centre section, each time supporting the weight and distributing the stresses into the respective structures. I wasn't able to come up with a workable solution.
I considered other methods of construction and different sizes, but all met with structural problems.
Finally I made scaled-up photocopies of a side view drawing and all became clear. This monster, at 3ft 3in long and less than 5in diameter was more like a baseball bat than a model airplane. Flimsy balsa-and-tissue fabrication just wasn't going to work.
So, reluctantly, I have abandoned it. Many thanks to all you guys who contributed suggestions.
Hopefully the future will suggest further Crun Robotics type models, more my thing really.
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That's a big shame as I was REALLY looking forward to seeing it completed. Still, it is better to prepare, and if that preparation shows that it is an unfeasible project, then best to move to something else and I look forward to seeing more of your work. as God shouted impatiently in Monty Python and The Holy Grail:
"Get ON with it" !
"Get ON with it" !
Airship. Cancel The Cancel....
Mike,
Nooooooooooooooo....don't cancel...far too much of that in British aviation....!!!
You just needed a fresh approach. OK, this would be my take - just bear with me......;-
1) Build the model around a mandrel. A bit of old broomstick or PVC piping, anything light-ish and rigid. You may need to profile the ends or use a smaller OD extension from a drilled hole in the end.
2) Draw out a few sections at your desired profile. Cut the formers out of card or even plastic, with a centre-hole to suit the mandrel. Iced-cream containers or fast-food tupperware-style will be ideal. Use a modelling knife or even just scissors if you have a steady hand. This may seem a bit flimsy, but trust me, as you assemble this it will become light and strong.
3) Source some sheet insulation-foam. Not the naff white polystyrene used for packaging, but the dense stuff used in modern buildings. You'll find offcuts gratis on any building site - this is usually either blue or green. It has a similar density to lightweight Balsa, but obviously, no grain. This cuts really beautifully with a sharp knife, and can be sawn or sanded in a trice. You will need to slice it to a suitable thickness to fit between your formers. Cut these discs to suit the profiled formers, but a fraction oversize. Use white PVA adhesive, but not anything volatile, as it will attack the foam. Sand it all to shape with a flat block to get the fake witness marks from the internal structure. Finally, use some finer paper free-hand to get the 'panting' between the formers.
4) When you are happy, cover it all with tissue. Do not use dope. Once it is sealed with a primer you can paint it.
5) When you come to attach your pods etc, you can cut the slots etc into the foam. Use Devcon (A good five-minut epoxy.) and pin if necessary.
All of the above is harder to write than do, as working with this foam is very quick and easy, and LIGHT-YEARS less work than actually trying to build a structure....! All the pods etc will take much longer than the actual body of the airship. Trust me, for a static model, this is the way to go, as the foam is absurdly easy to shape....! Once you have used this, you find a million other ways to use it. Just treat it like high-quality Balsa that comes FOC....
You might even build-in some LED's.....
Can't wait to see this photos....!
Good Luck
PS;- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIw09oqsYo ..........lol....
Nooooooooooooooo....don't cancel...far too much of that in British aviation....!!!
You just needed a fresh approach. OK, this would be my take - just bear with me......;-
1) Build the model around a mandrel. A bit of old broomstick or PVC piping, anything light-ish and rigid. You may need to profile the ends or use a smaller OD extension from a drilled hole in the end.
2) Draw out a few sections at your desired profile. Cut the formers out of card or even plastic, with a centre-hole to suit the mandrel. Iced-cream containers or fast-food tupperware-style will be ideal. Use a modelling knife or even just scissors if you have a steady hand. This may seem a bit flimsy, but trust me, as you assemble this it will become light and strong.
3) Source some sheet insulation-foam. Not the naff white polystyrene used for packaging, but the dense stuff used in modern buildings. You'll find offcuts gratis on any building site - this is usually either blue or green. It has a similar density to lightweight Balsa, but obviously, no grain. This cuts really beautifully with a sharp knife, and can be sawn or sanded in a trice. You will need to slice it to a suitable thickness to fit between your formers. Cut these discs to suit the profiled formers, but a fraction oversize. Use white PVA adhesive, but not anything volatile, as it will attack the foam. Sand it all to shape with a flat block to get the fake witness marks from the internal structure. Finally, use some finer paper free-hand to get the 'panting' between the formers.
4) When you are happy, cover it all with tissue. Do not use dope. Once it is sealed with a primer you can paint it.
5) When you come to attach your pods etc, you can cut the slots etc into the foam. Use Devcon (A good five-minut epoxy.) and pin if necessary.
All of the above is harder to write than do, as working with this foam is very quick and easy, and LIGHT-YEARS less work than actually trying to build a structure....! All the pods etc will take much longer than the actual body of the airship. Trust me, for a static model, this is the way to go, as the foam is absurdly easy to shape....! Once you have used this, you find a million other ways to use it. Just treat it like high-quality Balsa that comes FOC....
You might even build-in some LED's.....
Can't wait to see this photos....!
Good Luck
PS;- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIw09oqsYo ..........lol....
Last edited by GQ2; 30th Sep 2014 at 18:33.
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Hi guys, thanks ever so much for your kind comments. Shall keep R34 gently alive on a back burner and consider all the options. One is to downsize, use a balsa spine, and make the skin as balsa-tissue panels assembled in jigs.
GQ2 - Many thanks for setting out a viable method of construction, never been there so would need to practice a little. Some necessary considerations are how to support/hang the whole assemblage once finished, how to add cruciform empennage, and how to mount gondolas. The gondola problem is the biggie, they are suspended on struts but their position is defined by wires which take the forward and reverse engine thrust. Without the wires the fore and aft gondolas would be free to swing forward and back, and the wing gondolas, with only two-point suspension, would describe semicircles. Hard points have to be provided and wires attached under tension. Thanks for the music vid, one of my all-time favourites for the excellent sax riffs, shall add it to my music page soonest. You know where I live!
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Henry...the insulation -foam is polyurethane.it is homogenous and of even texture throughout....Similar stuff is used in foam-sandwich construction for boats,light aircraft..... It'sa doddle to chopand carve.....gondolas can be attached to piano-wire stays that can be simply poked intothe foam,withdrawn, smeared with glue and refitted.
If Mrs Crun is inclined to flower-arranging (other than the D P Gumby variety!) she willhave had experience of "oasis" a foam block which the stems are poked into.....but somewhat dearer than the insulation offcuts.
Some of this insulation is about 6" thick, so you could just use an appropriate-size of tin like a cookie -cutter,maybe,then glue the stack together.....OTOH,the stuff is foil-skinned on at least one side, so selecting the right thickness for your discs would give the "hoops"....longitudinal grooves could accommodate wire or wood "stringers" and a quick rub-over with coarse sandpaper would erode the soft foam"panels" pretty good, I imagine.
In other words, like wot GQ2 said!
If Mrs Crun is inclined to flower-arranging (other than the D P Gumby variety!) she willhave had experience of "oasis" a foam block which the stems are poked into.....but somewhat dearer than the insulation offcuts.
Some of this insulation is about 6" thick, so you could just use an appropriate-size of tin like a cookie -cutter,maybe,then glue the stack together.....OTOH,the stuff is foil-skinned on at least one side, so selecting the right thickness for your discs would give the "hoops"....longitudinal grooves could accommodate wire or wood "stringers" and a quick rub-over with coarse sandpaper would erode the soft foam"panels" pretty good, I imagine.
In other words, like wot GQ2 said!
PS;-
PS;-
The struts could be made from cocktail-sticks. Supermarkets also sell wooden skewers for kebabs which are very thin. Metal, - then use old knitting-needles, or brass or copper wire, which is easy to cut.
The tail just need two sawn slots in the arse end of the body and mandrel. Two sheets of Plasticard or similar for the fins, with opposing-slots to they lock together before fitting and are strong.
The rigging/wires etc. The trick here is to use thin elastic, so they wont look saggy and wobbly. You can secure the ends with ordinary pins, so no slack and no glue needed. If you need even finer.....then you can easily make yards by getting old bits of polystyrene plastic, as in Airfix kits, - and melting it and stretching it out. It cools and hardens in seconds. Snip to length with a knife and use a tiny blob of superglue applied with a cocktail stick to fix.
Surface texture;- After you have tissue-covered the foam, if you want to go a bit further, you could past-on some detail. Just cotton would be fine. After painting it'd be more blended-in. An alternative would be narrow strips of paper, similarly applied.
The reason I'd got some of these ideas to hand was that a while ago I'd thought of making a model of the R101. My parents both had memories of seeing this monster, and a friend of mine was pals with Bill Stryan, who was killed photographing the Memorial Service at the crash site at Bauvaise. My mother told me that generally, many kids were very frightened by the R101 as it made such a scary - to them - noise and it still sent a chill down her spine thinking about it in her final years.
The Government-built R101 was a sad tale - with an inevitable conclusion, as she was over weight, over budget and underpowered.
The privately-built R100, her sister ship was almost without problems, but was broken-up for scrap at Cardington, about a year after the R101 disaster, despite a sucessful trip to Canada and back. The R100 was also built to the same spec' as the R101, but was a different design, by the famous Barnes Wallace. Neville Shute-Norway's 'Slide Rule' is an excellent account of this saga.
R101;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdPrUBkMgdE
Some shots of the R101;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k60YoKKiayE
R101 and R34 too;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0aoPm49axg
The struts could be made from cocktail-sticks. Supermarkets also sell wooden skewers for kebabs which are very thin. Metal, - then use old knitting-needles, or brass or copper wire, which is easy to cut.
The tail just need two sawn slots in the arse end of the body and mandrel. Two sheets of Plasticard or similar for the fins, with opposing-slots to they lock together before fitting and are strong.
The rigging/wires etc. The trick here is to use thin elastic, so they wont look saggy and wobbly. You can secure the ends with ordinary pins, so no slack and no glue needed. If you need even finer.....then you can easily make yards by getting old bits of polystyrene plastic, as in Airfix kits, - and melting it and stretching it out. It cools and hardens in seconds. Snip to length with a knife and use a tiny blob of superglue applied with a cocktail stick to fix.
Surface texture;- After you have tissue-covered the foam, if you want to go a bit further, you could past-on some detail. Just cotton would be fine. After painting it'd be more blended-in. An alternative would be narrow strips of paper, similarly applied.
The reason I'd got some of these ideas to hand was that a while ago I'd thought of making a model of the R101. My parents both had memories of seeing this monster, and a friend of mine was pals with Bill Stryan, who was killed photographing the Memorial Service at the crash site at Bauvaise. My mother told me that generally, many kids were very frightened by the R101 as it made such a scary - to them - noise and it still sent a chill down her spine thinking about it in her final years.
The Government-built R101 was a sad tale - with an inevitable conclusion, as she was over weight, over budget and underpowered.
The privately-built R100, her sister ship was almost without problems, but was broken-up for scrap at Cardington, about a year after the R101 disaster, despite a sucessful trip to Canada and back. The R100 was also built to the same spec' as the R101, but was a different design, by the famous Barnes Wallace. Neville Shute-Norway's 'Slide Rule' is an excellent account of this saga.
R101;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdPrUBkMgdE
Some shots of the R101;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k60YoKKiayE
R101 and R34 too;-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0aoPm49axg