Vulcan aerobatics
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I agree with everything you say. But that isn't to agree that flying "half rolls" was therefore a myth. Granted, it seems to have been much more of a manufacturer's speciality but I think it would be wrong to suggest that service pilots didn't perform them too, even if only for a few years.
I would genuinely be very interested to know if any former V-Force pilots out there can recall just what delivery profiles were flown. It's always been a very difficult issue to clarify (because of the (then) sensitive nature of the subject. Problem is that now it isn't so much of a dark secret, it's so long ago that nobody seems to remember much... or do they?
I would genuinely be very interested to know if any former V-Force pilots out there can recall just what delivery profiles were flown. It's always been a very difficult issue to clarify (because of the (then) sensitive nature of the subject. Problem is that now it isn't so much of a dark secret, it's so long ago that nobody seems to remember much... or do they?
I would genuinely be very interested to know if any former V-Force pilots out there can recall just what delivery profiles were flown. It's always been a very difficult issue to clarify (because of the (then) sensitive nature of the subject. Problem is that now it isn't so much of a dark secret, it's so long ago that nobody seems to remember much... or do they?
You may also wish to read this.
Yellow Sun
Last edited by Yellow Sun; 30th Jul 2013 at 15:10.
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Rolling the Vulcan
A TP who went on to experimental test flights on Concord once invited me to look after the controls on the right side of a Boscombe Down Vulcan Mk1. This was my first Vulcan flight.
At the top of the first climbing barrel soon after take off I just had to object to him not having warned me what was about to happen. His reponse was -"I just wanted to show you how effective those 4 sections of aileron are. Handing over - try one" That was a WOW!!
The Vulcan handled better than most fighters of the era particularly up high and always felt very rugged. I found the Victor to be much too bendy for my liking and had little inclination to ever go inverted.
Previously as an Examiner of Airmen I was checking out a Squadron Instrment Rating Examiner IRE wearing a hood in a Lincoln and thinking what sort of an unusual attitude can I put this big lumbering machine into from which he may not be able to recover.
At a safe height I applied max power and pulled up into about a 75 degree nose up and as speed rapidly decreased pulled the throttles on Nos 1 and 2. as the yaw rapidly developed "Handing Over" followed. There was a lengthy period of consternation as we entered an immelman upside down and a perplexing look from the pilot in the left seat. I must have had one of those looks also as I applied balanced power whilst gently letting the nose come down through the horizon then slowly completing what must have looked like a semi horizontal spin. At no time was there anything close to max g for a rolling pullout.
The secret is you need an aircraft having a high rate of roll at adequate speed to be able to safely barrel any aircraft and never forget the huge increase in loading on the wing having max down aileron. Rolling pullouts often end in a heap.
At the top of the first climbing barrel soon after take off I just had to object to him not having warned me what was about to happen. His reponse was -"I just wanted to show you how effective those 4 sections of aileron are. Handing over - try one" That was a WOW!!
The Vulcan handled better than most fighters of the era particularly up high and always felt very rugged. I found the Victor to be much too bendy for my liking and had little inclination to ever go inverted.
Previously as an Examiner of Airmen I was checking out a Squadron Instrment Rating Examiner IRE wearing a hood in a Lincoln and thinking what sort of an unusual attitude can I put this big lumbering machine into from which he may not be able to recover.
At a safe height I applied max power and pulled up into about a 75 degree nose up and as speed rapidly decreased pulled the throttles on Nos 1 and 2. as the yaw rapidly developed "Handing Over" followed. There was a lengthy period of consternation as we entered an immelman upside down and a perplexing look from the pilot in the left seat. I must have had one of those looks also as I applied balanced power whilst gently letting the nose come down through the horizon then slowly completing what must have looked like a semi horizontal spin. At no time was there anything close to max g for a rolling pullout.
The secret is you need an aircraft having a high rate of roll at adequate speed to be able to safely barrel any aircraft and never forget the huge increase in loading on the wing having max down aileron. Rolling pullouts often end in a heap.
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I agree with Yellow Sun, I had a couple of years on the canberra at Laarbruch and having attended a LABS course my first week at Laarbruch I used to test the system quite often during maintenance inputs. When I left Laarbruch I was posted to Coningsby on the Mk2 Vulcans and they did not have LABS fitted to the aircraft, this was July 1963 until November 65
Video about?
I am pretty sure that there is a video about on You Tube showing Tony Blackman looping a Vulcan (commentary by Raymond Baxter IIRC).
There are however, FAR better qualified people than me on this thread, so I will leave it at that.
I have certainly seen Roly Falk's barrel roll at Farnborough on there.
TO
There are however, FAR better qualified people than me on this thread, so I will leave it at that.
I have certainly seen Roly Falk's barrel roll at Farnborough on there.
TO
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Vulcan manoeuvres
Just came across this in Journal 53 (2012) of the RAF Historical Society:
THE AVRO VULCAN - MAKING IT WORK by Tony Blackman, last sentence, p78:
"I mentioned Farnborough at the start of this talk and so it is appropriate to close by mentioning that in 1958 with the Mk 1 developing the engines for the Mk 2 with 16,000 lb thrust per engine it was possible to do two rolls off the top, one after the other after a standing start and then land in 3 minutes and 19 seconds. A glorious way to spend a week."
LXXIV
THE AVRO VULCAN - MAKING IT WORK by Tony Blackman, last sentence, p78:
"I mentioned Farnborough at the start of this talk and so it is appropriate to close by mentioning that in 1958 with the Mk 1 developing the engines for the Mk 2 with 16,000 lb thrust per engine it was possible to do two rolls off the top, one after the other after a standing start and then land in 3 minutes and 19 seconds. A glorious way to spend a week."
LXXIV
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"Half loops"!? Isn't that what for a century have been called an Immelmann?
This week i saw a TV program about the british jets and remember some details relevant to this talk:
- The rolling and other on Farnborough was simply rivalry between HP and Avro - Once the one had started the other had to at least do the same!
- After the soviet's had shown that they were capable to shoot-down the U2, nuke delivering was changed to low-level inflight, wich showed to stress the airframe of the Victor too much, only leaving the Vulcan for the job!
This week i saw a TV program about the british jets and remember some details relevant to this talk:
- The rolling and other on Farnborough was simply rivalry between HP and Avro - Once the one had started the other had to at least do the same!
- After the soviet's had shown that they were capable to shoot-down the U2, nuke delivering was changed to low-level inflight, wich showed to stress the airframe of the Victor too much, only leaving the Vulcan for the job!
