Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Aviation History and Nostalgia
Reload this Page >

Unusual air combat combinations

Wikiposts
Search
Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Unusual air combat combinations

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 30th Nov 2023, 05:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 93
Received 19 Likes on 13 Posts
Unusual air combat combinations

Just another idle musing.

I'd not previously heard of this circumstance of a Meteor shooting down a Canberra. From Wikipedia: "During the Suez Crisis, the RAF performed high altitude reconnaissance flights over Syria by English Electric Canberra aircraft from bases in Cyprus. Lacking radar to track the aircraft, the Syrian Air Force developed a ground spotter network that reported information by telephone to intercept the flights. On 6 November 1956, a Syrian Meteor shot down a Canberra of No. 13 Squadron RAF, which crashed in Lebanon."

Which other unusual or little-known aircraft combat combinations can you think of? I'm particularly interested in jets, but there's no need to limit it to that. Open slather please...
AnotherFSO is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 06:38
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,819
Received 201 Likes on 93 Posts
I thought the Canberra had been shot down by a MiG-17 ?

Previous thread on the topic: Operation Musketeer (Suez) - PPRuNe Forums
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 09:08
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 118
Received 76 Likes on 31 Posts
Lightning vs Spitfire

campbeex is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 10:22
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wilts
Posts: 359
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Not little-known, but the Gnat/Ajeet vs Sabre and Hunter vs Sabre clashes during India/Pakistan wars are an obvious candidate.
Quemerford is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 11:11
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Denmark
Age: 68
Posts: 402
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Heard of a Piper L4 downing a Fieseler Storch on 11/4-1945, does that count as unusual?
sablatnic is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 11:21
  #6 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,619
Received 294 Likes on 162 Posts
Irresistibly reminded of Airfix's Dog Fight Double sets, though I think they were fairly sensible combinations...
treadigraph is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 30th Nov 2023, 12:24
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
How about Spitfire vs Spitfire? RAF vs Egyptian AF 1947. Last RAF air to air kill.
Zaxis is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 13:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,815
Received 95 Likes on 68 Posts
I remember the tale of a Bf109 which was downed during WW2 - by an Avro Rota autogyro (or it could have been a Cierva C30).
Doing radar calibrations south of Portsmouth when the '109 jumped him thinking it would be an easy kill.
After trying to dodge him, the 109 dived on him, the autogyro pilot simply slowed right down very quickly and the '109 overshot him straight into the sea.
chevvron is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 14:53
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: England
Posts: 528
Received 241 Likes on 123 Posts
On the subject of dissimilar air combat (re: Lightning v Spitfire) wasn't Brazil involved in a war with a neighbour. Brazil had P51's and the neighbour had MiG 21's? The Mustangs all ended up at the CAF in exchange for T33's.
A night fighter Dornier 217 downed a Russian B25 over Germany during a night raid. B25 was on a training flight and lost.
Zero's v Piper Cubs, Pearl Harbour.
Tomcats v Zero's in "Final Countdown".
DogTailRed2 is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 14:59
  #10 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 74
Posts: 3,697
Received 50 Likes on 24 Posts
I remember the tale of a Bf109 which was downed during WW2 - by an Avro Rota autogyro (or it could have been a Cierva C30).
Doing radar calibrations south of Portsmouth when the '109 jumped him thinking it would be an easy kill.
After trying to dodge him, the 109 dived on him, the autogyro pilot simply slowed right down very quickly and the '109 overshot him straight into the sea.
Heard a similar tale about a Lysander. Had a 109 on its tail so slowed down - flaps, slats and anything else; 109 had to fly past and was hit by a Bren Gun from the Lysander's door....

Good tale even if not true.......
teeteringhead is online now  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 15:02
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London UK
Posts: 531
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
During a Belize crisis in the 70s there was much speculation about how Ark Royal's Phantoms and even Buccaneers might be able to down a P51.
Dr Jekyll is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 15:05
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brighton
Posts: 968
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Last RAF air to air kill was not a Spitfire - .............. the infamous Jaguar shootdown by an RAF Germany F-4
kenparry is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 30th Nov 2023, 15:34
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westnoreastsouth
Posts: 1,826
Received 33 Likes on 29 Posts
One of the most amusing combats was Blackburn Roc v Heinkel 59,D.H. Clarke DFC,AFC wrote an autobio - it sits happily on my bookshelf

What were they like to fly D H Clarke DFC,AFC

“A well known engagement involved a 2 AACU (Anti-Aircraft Co-operation Unit) ROC, L3085, and Plt Off D. H. Clarke, who had painted a red ‘Saint’ (the Leslie Charteris character) in a red-framed yellow diamond on each side of the rear fuselage of his ‘own’ Roc. On 26 September 1940 he was sent out to search for survivors in the water 15 miles (24 km) south-west of St Catherines Point. With Sergeant Hunt in the gun turret – which, unusually for 2 AACU Rocs, was fully armed – he took off in the late afternoon. As he instituted a square search in the area indicated, he noticed what he thought was a Swordfish also searching about 3 miles (5 km) away.After about 45 minutes of fruitless search in the gathering gloom, he suddenly noticed that the Swordfish, now only half a mile away, was in fact a twin engined floatplane. Out of curiosity, wondering what it was, he flew towards it: and then suddenly realised it was a Heinkel He 59, a German aircraft probably on the same air-sea rescue task as himself. Unsure as to whether he should open fire on an aircraft on such a humanitarian mission, he flew across its nose with Hunt training his turret at it.

As he did so the German nose gunner opened fire with his 7.9mm machine gun, and Hunt returned fire, his tracer pouring into the Heinkel’s fuselage. After the pandemonium and shock of his first action, Clarke swung on to a parallel course, and re-established communication with Hunt , whose intercom lead had been pulled out. The Heinkel turned for France, skimming the waves. Happily the twin engined bi-plane was even slower than the Roc, with a top speed at sea level of only 137 mph (220 kph), and Clarke was able to gain on his adversary; although he was still faced with the prospect of having to drop a wing to enable Hunt to open fire, even though his propeller was skimming the wave tops.

At 300 yards range he dropped a wing, and Hunt opened fire with another broadside. The Heinkel replied from all three gun positions, nose, dorsal and ventral, a single machine gun in each, but Clarke had to lift the wing after only a few seconds to avoid side-slipping into the sea, causing the last few rounds of Hunt’s burst to shoot harmlessly up into the air. The two aircraft continued these brief exchanges of fire for about 25 minutes, until the coast of France was looming up. Both aircraft were hit, and one of the Heinkel’s gunners stopped firing; but just as Clarke was about to turn away, the Roc was hit in the engine.

It faltered, and Clarke switched to the reserve 17 gal (77 ltr) tank, pulling up and away. Just as he thought he might have to ditch, the Perseus picked up, and he nursed the damaged aircraft back to Gosport. But before he could taxi in the engine stopped, out of fuel. Clarke claimed the Heinkel as ‘Damaged’.

On his return his groundcrew found two incendiary bullets in the main fuel tank, above which he sat. They had entered low down in the petrol, which had extinguished them; slightly higher, in the explosive fuel/air mixture above, and the Roc would have been ‘missing in action’. This action was almost certainly the nearest the Blackburn Roc ever came to destroying a German aircraft in combat”.
longer ron is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 16:26
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wilts
Posts: 359
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaxis
How about Spitfire vs Spitfire? RAF vs Egyptian AF 1947. Last RAF air to air kill.
Probably not the last, but F/L John Granville-White's MiG-15 kill on 29 June 1953 post-dates the above by six years or so.
Quemerford is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 18:34
  #15 (permalink)  
BSD
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Deepest Essex.
Posts: 434
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wasn't there a Royal Australian Navy Se Fury that shot down an Auster which managed to get airborne without a pilot from Bankstown?

The RAN got called in after the RAAF couldn't get it in a jet fighter, IIRC.

BSD is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2023, 19:24
  #16 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,619
Received 294 Likes on 162 Posts
Originally Posted by BSD
Wasn't there a Royal Australian Navy Se Fury that shot down an Auster which managed to get airborne without a pilot from Bankstown?

The RAN got called in after the RAAF couldn't get it in a jet fighter, IIRC.
There was!

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/18328

Last edited by treadigraph; 1st Dec 2023 at 09:54.
treadigraph is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2023, 05:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London UK
Posts: 531
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Quemerford
Probably not the last, but F/L John Granville-White's MiG-15 kill on 29 June 1953 post-dates the above by six years or so.
Wasn't that while flying with the USAF? RAF pilots have made kills while flying with the USAF in Korea and the FAA in the Falklands. If they count as RAF kills then the last one was 1982.
Dr Jekyll is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2023, 08:40
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Miles away
Posts: 115
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
The Russians tried to shoot down Ladislav Bezak's Zlin 226 with a jet while escaping to the West, but luckily failed. He said after - 'It was the best aerobatic display I ever flew'!
Procrastinus is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2023, 15:32
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,844 Likes on 1,215 Posts
Want to watch one?

A Venezuelan Air Force F-16, piloted by Lt. Beltran Vielma, shoots down a rebel OV-10 Bronco near El Libertador Air Base during the second coup attempt of 1992, on November 27. Vielma used the M61 Vulcan cannon of his F-16 to destroy the light attack aircraft. The rebel pilot, Lt. Carlos Mictil, ejected safely and was arrested later. The Venezuelan coup attempts of 1992 were attempts to seize control of the government of Venezuela by the Hugo Chávez-led Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement-200. The first coup attempt took place on 4 February 1992, and was led by Chávez. A second coup attempt on 27 November 1992, took place while Chávez was in prison but was directed by a group of young military officers who were loyal to the Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement-200. On 27 November 1992, the OV-10s were widely used by mutinous officers who staged the second attempted coup against former President Carlos Andrés Pérez. The rebels dropped bombs and launched rockets against police and government buildings in Caracas. Four Broncos were lost during the uprising.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2023, 15:39
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: England
Posts: 528
Received 241 Likes on 123 Posts
DogTailRed2 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.