Battle of Britain film
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Stanford Tuck film
I thought this group may be interested to know that I'm working on a script for a film about Robert Stanford-Tuck, Battle of Britain Ace. He was a remarkable man with a strange and interesting career, and one of England's top-scoring pilots. He flew Spitfires primarily, but also Hurricanes. If anyone's interested in knowing more, his biography "Fly For Your Life" is available on Amazon.com as well as Ebay.
Last edited by cinema1; 24th Jul 2011 at 20:11. Reason: Change title, fix one spelling error
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cgi or "real" aircraft?
i for one would pay to see "proper" dogfighting, plenty of spits (in correct mks) around, maybe hire a couple of the newbuild fw190's!!
p.s, is "black 6" me109 still flying?
i for one would pay to see "proper" dogfighting, plenty of spits (in correct mks) around, maybe hire a couple of the newbuild fw190's!!
p.s, is "black 6" me109 still flying?
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Black Six ended up upside down in a ploughed field the other side of the M.11 at Duxford after what was thought by the pilot to be an engine problem during a display some years ago. It was deemed irrepairable, and is now in the RAF Museum at Hendon.
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"cgi or "real" aircraft?"
Good question. Unfortunately the answer is "both".
Being a fan of the genre myself, I'd love nothing better than to see it all done with real aircraft or replicas (Waldo Pepper), but given the number of dogfights, damaged aircraft, and crash sequences, the use of real aircraft for the entire project would be difficult, cost-prohibitive and dangerous. Good news is, the CGI company is also fans of military aviation. I can't say too much, but rest assured we've discussed making the scenes as gritty and realistic as possible where CGI is required. In short...we want you to get white-knuckled watching it, because it's what we want too.
As for correct Mk's, every effort will be made to get that right as well. Keep in mind though, budget and aircraft availability will be a factor here.
Good question. Unfortunately the answer is "both".
Being a fan of the genre myself, I'd love nothing better than to see it all done with real aircraft or replicas (Waldo Pepper), but given the number of dogfights, damaged aircraft, and crash sequences, the use of real aircraft for the entire project would be difficult, cost-prohibitive and dangerous. Good news is, the CGI company is also fans of military aviation. I can't say too much, but rest assured we've discussed making the scenes as gritty and realistic as possible where CGI is required. In short...we want you to get white-knuckled watching it, because it's what we want too.
As for correct Mk's, every effort will be made to get that right as well. Keep in mind though, budget and aircraft availability will be a factor here.
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An excellent subject! I first read "Fly For Your Life" at about the age of seven or eight, shortly after seeing the Battle of Britain Film and recently sought out a copy to add to the library. A superb book.
Tuck also flew Gauntlets and Gladiators before the war - there are two Gladiators flying in the UK (and another on the way I believe) and a Gauntlet in Finland (with P&W engine I think).
And I think there are three or four Mk1 Spits being rebuilt to fly in the UK, including the one Peter Cazenove force landed on a beach near Dunkirk whilst on 92 Sqn with Tuck when first they went into battle.
He111s and Dorniers would be a bit tricky to find these days - no more Spanish sources to tap. I hope the CGI company can reign in their enthusiasm a little and slow the pace of the animations to something rather more realistic than Pearl Harbour!
Good luck and look forward to seeing it.
Tuck also flew Gauntlets and Gladiators before the war - there are two Gladiators flying in the UK (and another on the way I believe) and a Gauntlet in Finland (with P&W engine I think).
And I think there are three or four Mk1 Spits being rebuilt to fly in the UK, including the one Peter Cazenove force landed on a beach near Dunkirk whilst on 92 Sqn with Tuck when first they went into battle.
He111s and Dorniers would be a bit tricky to find these days - no more Spanish sources to tap. I hope the CGI company can reign in their enthusiasm a little and slow the pace of the animations to something rather more realistic than Pearl Harbour!
Good luck and look forward to seeing it.
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"An excellent subject! I first read "Fly For Your Life" at about the age of seven or eight, shortly after seeing the Battle of Britain Film and recently sought out a copy to add to the library. A superb book."
Since you're a fan of the book, let me share a few tidbits I've discovered during my research. As you know, the book only briefly touches on Tuck's escape from prison camp and subsequent (and rather arduous) journey back to the UK. It's come to my attention that he kept detailed memoirs of this time period. These could be made available to me at some point, depending on how this project goes. These writings have not seen the light of day for many years.
Sadly, I've also learned that the merchant ship on which Tuck served, the Marconi, was sunk in 1941 by the Germans with a number of hands lost. And, I even found pictures of the ship, the layout of which I needed for some of my scenes. I know it's off topic, so I won't post them here. Glad to send 'em if you like.
Also worthy of note -- although Larry Forrester is gone, his widow is alive and well, and I was extremely fortunate to find their original literary agent, who still had her address after all these years.
Since you're a fan of the book, let me share a few tidbits I've discovered during my research. As you know, the book only briefly touches on Tuck's escape from prison camp and subsequent (and rather arduous) journey back to the UK. It's come to my attention that he kept detailed memoirs of this time period. These could be made available to me at some point, depending on how this project goes. These writings have not seen the light of day for many years.
Sadly, I've also learned that the merchant ship on which Tuck served, the Marconi, was sunk in 1941 by the Germans with a number of hands lost. And, I even found pictures of the ship, the layout of which I needed for some of my scenes. I know it's off topic, so I won't post them here. Glad to send 'em if you like.
Also worthy of note -- although Larry Forrester is gone, his widow is alive and well, and I was extremely fortunate to find their original literary agent, who still had her address after all these years.
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Best of Luck - Bob Stanford Tuck
A film about the life of Bob Tuck is well overdue. 'Fly For Your Life' was the first aviation book that I read back in the 70's and it led me into a career as an RAF pilot and Battle of Britain enthusiast. My big regret is that I never had the opportunity to meet the great man himself though I do have a signed copy of his book.
I have taken the liberty of posting a link to this thread on the Battle of Britain Historical Society Forum as there are many members there who will be interested in this news and could well be a vital source for information and expertise.
Best of luck with your venture.
I have taken the liberty of posting a link to this thread on the Battle of Britain Historical Society Forum as there are many members there who will be interested in this news and could well be a vital source for information and expertise.
Best of luck with your venture.
"cgi or "real" aircraft?"
Good question. Unfortunately the answer is "both".
Good question. Unfortunately the answer is "both".
For CGI done badly (among many other problems) I recommend looking at the fairly recent Pearl Harbour film.
Everything, but everything, in that film was crass, unrealistic and bloody awful.
In particular, the "compression" of aerial combat sequences gave the impression that fighters got within 10 yards of each other! 100 yards would have been considered close!
Problem is, that doesn't look good on screen - at least for hollywood.
FBW
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I don't think the pics of "Marconi" would be off-topic at all if you wanted to post them!
Incidentally, aside from the subject matter, part of the reason the book is so very readable is down to Larry Forrester's excellent literary style.
Cheers
Treadders
Incidentally, aside from the subject matter, part of the reason the book is so very readable is down to Larry Forrester's excellent literary style.
Cheers
Treadders
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"Everything, but everything, in that film was crass, unrealistic, and bloody awful"
I can't argue with much of that, except to say that any film which calls attention to the bravery, deeds, and aircraft of WW2 is generally a good thing. In that respect, I think Pearl Harbor served its purpose.
That said, on-screen dogfighting sequences will always have an element of "unrealism" because, well, they aren't real. The challenges faced by filmmakers in trying to convey the three-dimensionality of air combat on a 2D screen are legion.
One thing I disliked about PH is how they rather brushed over the aircraft themselves. Just another element in a shot, like a control tower. We're taking into account Tuck's (and Britain's) justifiable love affair with the Spitfire. And yes, Hurricanes will get attention as well.
I can't argue with much of that, except to say that any film which calls attention to the bravery, deeds, and aircraft of WW2 is generally a good thing. In that respect, I think Pearl Harbor served its purpose.
That said, on-screen dogfighting sequences will always have an element of "unrealism" because, well, they aren't real. The challenges faced by filmmakers in trying to convey the three-dimensionality of air combat on a 2D screen are legion.
One thing I disliked about PH is how they rather brushed over the aircraft themselves. Just another element in a shot, like a control tower. We're taking into account Tuck's (and Britain's) justifiable love affair with the Spitfire. And yes, Hurricanes will get attention as well.
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Marconi
"I don't think the pics of "Marconi" would be off-topic at all if you wanted to post them!"
Alas, I think my juniorness may be preventing me from doing so? I don't see provision for it on my page. Unless I'm going blind.
Here's a link to one of them. The other pic shows the name on her bow.
http://enc.slq.qld.gov.au/cgi-bin/Di...00/133855r.jpg
Alas, I think my juniorness may be preventing me from doing so? I don't see provision for it on my page. Unless I'm going blind.
Here's a link to one of them. The other pic shows the name on her bow.
http://enc.slq.qld.gov.au/cgi-bin/Di...00/133855r.jpg
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As a Visual Effects Supervisor my only beef with any CGI content in any action film is the dynamics of the shot.
In Aviator there were some technically superb shots spoilt by the fact that the shots were impossible to achieve any other way than CGI. The 'bums on seats' public may not know why a shot looks phony but with the expense involved in creating CGI material, each one should be at least believable.
Good luck with the project and make every shot count!
In Aviator there were some technically superb shots spoilt by the fact that the shots were impossible to achieve any other way than CGI. The 'bums on seats' public may not know why a shot looks phony but with the expense involved in creating CGI material, each one should be at least believable.
Good luck with the project and make every shot count!
Originally Posted by JEM60
Black Six ended up upside down in a ploughed field the other side of the M.11 at Duxford after what was thought by the pilot to be an engine problem during a display some years ago. It was deemed irrepairable, and is now in the RAF Museum at Hendon.
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Quote "Q: Does the stick shake when trigger is pressed?"
I would like to know if every piston engined aircraft that is in a powered dive to the (inevitable) meeting with Mother Earth sounds like a Stuka on a mission?
cinema1, I don't know how much influence a script writer has in a production but I think you are among like-minded folk on this Forum and I hope that they listen to you. A good project and I wish you and the rest of the team the best outcome possible.
Aerials
I would like to know if every piston engined aircraft that is in a powered dive to the (inevitable) meeting with Mother Earth sounds like a Stuka on a mission?
cinema1, I don't know how much influence a script writer has in a production but I think you are among like-minded folk on this Forum and I hope that they listen to you. A good project and I wish you and the rest of the team the best outcome possible.
Aerials
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"I don't know how much influence a script writer has in a production ..."
In general, very little.
That is, unless that writer happens to hold the "option" to the material being produced -- which I do. That makes me producer as well as writer, which means I get to have some "say" in how this goes down. I've promised Tuck's family that I'd tell his story in a way that honors his memory as well as others like him. Doing it this way gives me the best chance of keeping my promise.
"I think you are among like-minded folk on this Forum and I hope that they listen to you."
It's likely I who will listen to them. From what I've seen here thus far, most everyone here almost certainly knows more about the Battle of Britain participants, events and hardware than I. I'm truly glad I found this site.
And Tempest, your comment about posting this information to the Battle of Britain Historical Society forum did not go unnoticed, and is greatly appreciated.
In general, very little.
That is, unless that writer happens to hold the "option" to the material being produced -- which I do. That makes me producer as well as writer, which means I get to have some "say" in how this goes down. I've promised Tuck's family that I'd tell his story in a way that honors his memory as well as others like him. Doing it this way gives me the best chance of keeping my promise.
"I think you are among like-minded folk on this Forum and I hope that they listen to you."
It's likely I who will listen to them. From what I've seen here thus far, most everyone here almost certainly knows more about the Battle of Britain participants, events and hardware than I. I'm truly glad I found this site.
And Tempest, your comment about posting this information to the Battle of Britain Historical Society forum did not go unnoticed, and is greatly appreciated.
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Thanks for the info. No one had ever mentioned 'last flight' as far as I recall.
Said High Ranking Officer came in for a large amount of abuse from the spectating community, but in my opinion, he was rather between a rock and a hard place, in that the engine didn't stop when expected to. Interesting accident report.
Thanks for the info. No one had ever mentioned 'last flight' as far as I recall.
Said High Ranking Officer came in for a large amount of abuse from the spectating community, but in my opinion, he was rather between a rock and a hard place, in that the engine didn't stop when expected to. Interesting accident report.
What a wonderful idea to film Tucks story,it was the first biography I ever read (circa 1968) - always wanted to find out more about this man...it was a great story.
Good luck with the film...something to look forward to.
Cannot agree more about the CGI on the 'aviator',just looked like a cartoon,personally I would rather see a wrong (but real ) a/c than a bad cgi scene.
Also I would agree with Jem60 about the 109 pilot,I knew him when he was wingco flying at Abingdon,he is a really genuine guy and ISTR that he would not let the rescue party damage the 109 to get him out,I believe he was upside down in the cockpit for something like 30 mins until he could be released without causing further damage.
Good luck with the film...something to look forward to.
Cannot agree more about the CGI on the 'aviator',just looked like a cartoon,personally I would rather see a wrong (but real ) a/c than a bad cgi scene.
Also I would agree with Jem60 about the 109 pilot,I knew him when he was wingco flying at Abingdon,he is a really genuine guy and ISTR that he would not let the rescue party damage the 109 to get him out,I believe he was upside down in the cockpit for something like 30 mins until he could be released without causing further damage.