Airspeed/D.H. Ambassador.
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Location: ascot berks uk
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Ah the Lizzie!! my first job at B.E.A. was on the modification and repair gang at Heathrow in march 1954 modifing the Lizzie's Aviation fuelled anti icing system [where was "elf and safetythen] which was to say the least tempremental . .
As an airplane it was beautifly built [the riviting was superb until you got to the tail plane] and then it fell well short of the rest I dont Know if DH/Airspeed ran out of money but the skinning was to put it bluntly very crude
It was lovely to fly in and could take off on 1 engine its crashes were due to 1 engine going into reverse pitch on approach, and of course the other slush and ice ruining all its lift on takeoff, ZO the reverse prop a/c though heavily damaged was brought back to Heathrow and repaired the 3 rd one was the B.K.S which broke a flap rod and crashed into the nearly built Terminal 1. Like all a/c of the period it was hard to work on as the access to alot of the systems left a lot to be desired but it kept me in work for just over a year until I moved onto other a/c in B.E.As fleet
As an airplane it was beautifly built [the riviting was superb until you got to the tail plane] and then it fell well short of the rest I dont Know if DH/Airspeed ran out of money but the skinning was to put it bluntly very crude
It was lovely to fly in and could take off on 1 engine its crashes were due to 1 engine going into reverse pitch on approach, and of course the other slush and ice ruining all its lift on takeoff, ZO the reverse prop a/c though heavily damaged was brought back to Heathrow and repaired the 3 rd one was the B.K.S which broke a flap rod and crashed into the nearly built Terminal 1. Like all a/c of the period it was hard to work on as the access to alot of the systems left a lot to be desired but it kept me in work for just over a year until I moved onto other a/c in B.E.As fleet
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Ambassador Photo's
I was for quite a few years engaged to the grand-daughter of Robin ' Bob ' Milne, Airspeed / D.H. Test Pilot, who amongst test flying such things as Mosquito's, personally test flew over 2,000 Oxfords !
He was also shot down in his Camel, waited for the guard to fall drunkenly asleep, then used his ski's to successfully escape ( that's the family version, I suspect weapons were involved) ; later on he climbed the summit of the Eiger, just before WWII - I would be surprised if he was not on a recce' mission.
I managed to get him a mention on the Tartan Terror's tribute site as his daughter Jenny ( my potential mother in law, strange I spent more time talking with her than with my then fiancee' ?! ) just before she died.
She knew Nevil Shute Norway well, he flew a lot with her dad; including finding a ' secret corridor ' for the Luftwaffe to get to Portsmouth between the barrage balloons, and as a little girl she grew up playing in the local Windmill Nevil often stayed in, ( along with another house nearby ) .
The windmill is now the symbol of our sailing club nearby ( though most sailors are clueless as to it's history, except that it was briefly owned by a James Bond film producer ).
Not too sure about the Ambassador / Oxford link, but if you read any of Nevil Shute ( Norway )'s books, a passion for simple, sound aviation is very clear; my personal favourites might be ' Requiem For A Wren ' and ' Round The Bend ' - which should be mandatory reading for anyone, ground or air crew, joining the aviation world !
In the book ' Test Pilots ' by Don Middleton - ISBN 0-00-218098-7 Bob Milne get's a brief mention; he started flying on Sopwith Camels against the Bolsheviks, ended on Comet airliner prototypes with John Cunningham.
I think it was his colleague & friend Ron Clear who worked on the testing & development of the ' Airspeed Fleet Shadower ' - enormous drag, ugly as sin but not as much fun, designed as a sort of propelled recce' balloon - after years of work, he found it's sole use was being used to fan the flames for fire crew training !
The point is, I was given a few truly great photo's of the Ambassador in flight, I'm too thick or lazy to post them here ( but will if pushed ) but I'll happily JPEG them to you.
All the best,
DZ
He was also shot down in his Camel, waited for the guard to fall drunkenly asleep, then used his ski's to successfully escape ( that's the family version, I suspect weapons were involved) ; later on he climbed the summit of the Eiger, just before WWII - I would be surprised if he was not on a recce' mission.
I managed to get him a mention on the Tartan Terror's tribute site as his daughter Jenny ( my potential mother in law, strange I spent more time talking with her than with my then fiancee' ?! ) just before she died.
She knew Nevil Shute Norway well, he flew a lot with her dad; including finding a ' secret corridor ' for the Luftwaffe to get to Portsmouth between the barrage balloons, and as a little girl she grew up playing in the local Windmill Nevil often stayed in, ( along with another house nearby ) .
The windmill is now the symbol of our sailing club nearby ( though most sailors are clueless as to it's history, except that it was briefly owned by a James Bond film producer ).
Not too sure about the Ambassador / Oxford link, but if you read any of Nevil Shute ( Norway )'s books, a passion for simple, sound aviation is very clear; my personal favourites might be ' Requiem For A Wren ' and ' Round The Bend ' - which should be mandatory reading for anyone, ground or air crew, joining the aviation world !
In the book ' Test Pilots ' by Don Middleton - ISBN 0-00-218098-7 Bob Milne get's a brief mention; he started flying on Sopwith Camels against the Bolsheviks, ended on Comet airliner prototypes with John Cunningham.
I think it was his colleague & friend Ron Clear who worked on the testing & development of the ' Airspeed Fleet Shadower ' - enormous drag, ugly as sin but not as much fun, designed as a sort of propelled recce' balloon - after years of work, he found it's sole use was being used to fan the flames for fire crew training !
The point is, I was given a few truly great photo's of the Ambassador in flight, I'm too thick or lazy to post them here ( but will if pushed ) but I'll happily JPEG them to you.
All the best,
DZ
Last edited by Double Zero; 25th Sep 2009 at 10:52.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
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For any of you that want a good record of the Amabassador on film, possibly the only DVD available with Ambassadors on it can be found here:
Avion Video Airliner Videos and DVDs
All in colour from restored cine film with sound! Ah wonderful stuff!
Avion Video Airliner Videos and DVDs
All in colour from restored cine film with sound! Ah wonderful stuff!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boroughbridge North Yorks
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Airspeed Ambassadors
Whilst working outside at McAlpines in the 60's , looked up to see an Autair Ambassador aquaplaning and do a complete 180 and with a great roar of power managed to avert a reverse trip over the end of the runway.Very lucky to end up safely like it did.
'The Lizzie'
Ah.......the nostalgia. Smokey on start up [permission to make smoke had to be requested!], spacious cabin, large windows, smooth and quite advanced in many ways. A pleasure to travel in them!
helen 49
Ah.......the nostalgia. Smokey on start up [permission to make smoke had to be requested!], spacious cabin, large windows, smooth and quite advanced in many ways. A pleasure to travel in them!
helen 49
Here are Double Zero's photos. Nice pictures of a lovely aircraft. The first photo is of the prototype G-AGUA, powered by Centaurus 631s.
Last edited by India Four Two; 28th Sep 2009 at 13:45.
When I was training at Oxford in 1965 we had the Ambassador simulator there to practice on. It had a computer room the size of the Albert Hall and of course was completely static. Rumour had it that it was the nose of one of the prototypes but I have not been able to find any confirmation of this on the internet. Does anyone know the answer and what happened to it – was it scrapped or is it still in some dusty corner somewhere?
I subsequently joined BKS where several course members were posted to the “Lizzie” fleet in Newcastle and London – I went to the 748 in LBA. Having made my first flight ever in the Lizzie as a schoolboy LHR-JER in 1958 I positioned around the network quite a bit in it for the next 2 years until they were withdrawn from pax service, I was always impressed with the antics of the F/O who had to leap out of his seat after engine start to pull a large switch on the rear cockpit bulkhead to inflate the door seals to allow pressurization after the aircraft was airborne, presumably in BEA service the R/O did the job?
One of the most comfortable aircraft I have ever traveled in from a passenger point of view.
I subsequently joined BKS where several course members were posted to the “Lizzie” fleet in Newcastle and London – I went to the 748 in LBA. Having made my first flight ever in the Lizzie as a schoolboy LHR-JER in 1958 I positioned around the network quite a bit in it for the next 2 years until they were withdrawn from pax service, I was always impressed with the antics of the F/O who had to leap out of his seat after engine start to pull a large switch on the rear cockpit bulkhead to inflate the door seals to allow pressurization after the aircraft was airborne, presumably in BEA service the R/O did the job?
One of the most comfortable aircraft I have ever traveled in from a passenger point of view.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Thinks!! did BEA have R/Os in 1953? I can't remember or did they go out with the Navigator after the Dak and Viking, can anyone remember?
Iknow there was a positon in the Viscount 701s for a R/O but by the late 50s i can't remember them being used .
Iknow there was a positon in the Viscount 701s for a R/O but by the late 50s i can't remember them being used .
Last edited by avionic type; 29th Sep 2009 at 13:37.
The only reference I can find to the dates of the role of the R/O in BEA is that they were phased out finally in 1962. This would have covered the service years of the Elizabethan as they were sold around 1958. I can certainly remember them being on the Viscount 701 in the late 50s/early 60s when my father flew them, they were gone by the time he transferred to the 802.
Double Zero - shame on you for being too lazy to post those pictures 
but many thanks for providing them and thanks India Four Two for doing the necessary 
Seriously, what wonderful pictures, what was it about that period that so many aircraft types were so elegant?
but many thanks for providing them and thanks India Four Two for doing the necessary Seriously, what wonderful pictures, what was it about that period that so many aircraft types were so elegant?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
They were designed by designers, who had a feel for their art, as opposed to computers, which produce the most efficient design regardless of the fact that it doesn't look very nice. Look at the modern car. Apart from the badge, it's often difficult to tell them apart.
Thread Starter
A bit of a slippery customer.
Interesting to read of an Ambassador aquaplaning at Luton - it was perhaps something the aeroplane was prone to do. I remember how one day in August 1967 we laughed our socks off in the Autair ops room on hearing that Channel had a double upset with their 748s at Portsmouth.
Blow me down a few weeks later our Ambassador G-ALZS with 65 pax arrived one wet evening on the not over-long (in those days) Luton runway, aquaplaned and was written off. Fortunately nobody was injured but it taught me not to laugh too heartily at the misfortunes of competitors.
Writing of Channel (a digression here) ;we used to hold our breath at Luton whenever their fully laden Tridents struggled upwards to the warm summer skies. At these times it was said that the Sevres Porcelain at Luton Hoo was regularly rattled whilst the trees in the park shed their leaves and perhaps a branch or two.
Blow me down a few weeks later our Ambassador G-ALZS with 65 pax arrived one wet evening on the not over-long (in those days) Luton runway, aquaplaned and was written off. Fortunately nobody was injured but it taught me not to laugh too heartily at the misfortunes of competitors.
Writing of Channel (a digression here) ;we used to hold our breath at Luton whenever their fully laden Tridents struggled upwards to the warm summer skies. At these times it was said that the Sevres Porcelain at Luton Hoo was regularly rattled whilst the trees in the park shed their leaves and perhaps a branch or two.
Ah, the Herald, just about as ugly an aircraft you could design, compare it to the Friendship, now that looked beautiful. Those photos really are evocative of the post war period, stunningly detailed black and white..... quite takes me back to my schooldays!!
The Ambassador was not particularly well received by BEA, the only airline to buy them new. Introduced in 1952, the 20 were all out of service by August 1958 and then took some years on the market to trickle down to secondary users.
The Munich accident was shortly befre their final withdrawl. I believe the charter flight to Belgrade and return used an Ambassador because there was no supply of jet fuel readily available at Belgrade so a Viscount could not be used.
Dan-Air did a daily sevice from Liverpool to Amsterdam with them in the 1960s. I recall the start-up each morning was accompanied by clouds of smoke, seemingly the sleeve-valve concept with radial engines allowed even more lubricating oil to seep down into the bottom cylinders than happened on other radials, which was then burned off in the initial seconds.
The Munich accident was shortly befre their final withdrawl. I believe the charter flight to Belgrade and return used an Ambassador because there was no supply of jet fuel readily available at Belgrade so a Viscount could not be used.
Dan-Air did a daily sevice from Liverpool to Amsterdam with them in the 1960s. I recall the start-up each morning was accompanied by clouds of smoke, seemingly the sleeve-valve concept with radial engines allowed even more lubricating oil to seep down into the bottom cylinders than happened on other radials, which was then burned off in the initial seconds.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Ah, the Herald, just about as ugly an aircraft you could design
You can't have seen the Shorts 330/360 then? As someone once said: "It was unfair of Shorts to enter two aircraft in the "ugliest airliner" competition; much less to win both first and second prize."
You can't have seen the Shorts 330/360 then? As someone once said: "It was unfair of Shorts to enter two aircraft in the "ugliest airliner" competition; much less to win both first and second prize."
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A handsome aircraft although I sadly never got to fly in one. We lived south of LTN in the 1960's and Autair's three Lizzies (ZS/ZV/ZZ) were daily sights. They made a very distinctive smooth muffled sound on climb-out, quite unlike the throaty roar of a P & W radial such as on the DC6, or the Wrights on the L-749 Connies. They certainly were heavy smokers on start-up, especially in the morning as WHBM describes. I remember a BKS Lizzie virtually fogging out the Queen's Building at LHR one morning with its smoky start. They even left smoke trails on climb-out sometimes!
Re- their early life with BEA, I can recall reading somewhere that BEA were very pleased with the passenger reaction to the Lizzie (not surprising as they replaced Vikings and DC3's) and wished they had ordered more. However, they were rapidly outclassed by the new Viscounts which started arriving only 1 year after the Lizzie entered service.
The amazing Silver Wing flight to Paris seems like a throwback to the same pre-war service operated by Imperial. All that fgourmet food, champagne and fancy service on a 90-minute flight to Paris! It really was a different world back then.
The terrible accident to ZR at LHR in 1968 (due to assymetric flap deployment and ensuing loss of control) was so sad; I remember it well. Some good people lost their lives that day. As someone else has mentioned, Arthur Whitlock's book has some great accounts of flying the Lizzie during his time at BKS, and includes the ZR incident.
For a piston engined airliner the Lizzie had a pretty long service life, from 1952 to 1969 or thereabouts. I missed the Autair aircraft when they were repaced by those noisy One-Elevens in 1968.
Re- their early life with BEA, I can recall reading somewhere that BEA were very pleased with the passenger reaction to the Lizzie (not surprising as they replaced Vikings and DC3's) and wished they had ordered more. However, they were rapidly outclassed by the new Viscounts which started arriving only 1 year after the Lizzie entered service.
The amazing Silver Wing flight to Paris seems like a throwback to the same pre-war service operated by Imperial. All that fgourmet food, champagne and fancy service on a 90-minute flight to Paris! It really was a different world back then.
The terrible accident to ZR at LHR in 1968 (due to assymetric flap deployment and ensuing loss of control) was so sad; I remember it well. Some good people lost their lives that day. As someone else has mentioned, Arthur Whitlock's book has some great accounts of flying the Lizzie during his time at BKS, and includes the ZR incident.
For a piston engined airliner the Lizzie had a pretty long service life, from 1952 to 1969 or thereabouts. I missed the Autair aircraft when they were repaced by those noisy One-Elevens in 1968.
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"Ah, the Herald, just about as ugly an aircraft you could design"
Joy is in the eye of the beholder! I have fond memories of the Herald at Hurn in BIA orange and white. Whereas I never took to the HS748, in Dan-air colours especially. Now if you're really asking, give me 4 x Darts on a Viscount and don't spare the two-blue colour scheme (of BMA).
Joy is in the eye of the beholder! I have fond memories of the Herald at Hurn in BIA orange and white. Whereas I never took to the HS748, in Dan-air colours especially. Now if you're really asking, give me 4 x Darts on a Viscount and don't spare the two-blue colour scheme (of BMA).
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Ambassador photo's
TTN & co,
Thanks for pointing out my laziness, agreed !
The aircraft looks good to me; I remember as a young boy watching them at Gatwick, knew them as ' Smokey Joe's '.
The photo's were supplied by the late Jenny Blower, daughter of Airspeed / D.H. Test Pilot Robin ' Bob ' Milne. They look like the work of Peckham or Brown to me - whoever it was did a good job, especially considering the distinctly user-unfriendly camera kit of the time...
DZ
Thanks for pointing out my laziness, agreed !
The aircraft looks good to me; I remember as a young boy watching them at Gatwick, knew them as ' Smokey Joe's '.
The photo's were supplied by the late Jenny Blower, daughter of Airspeed / D.H. Test Pilot Robin ' Bob ' Milne. They look like the work of Peckham or Brown to me - whoever it was did a good job, especially considering the distinctly user-unfriendly camera kit of the time...
DZ