Slán Alan , hello ....
It may only be 20 positions today but Qantas’s own projections show them direct hiring 200 A380 S/O’s over 5 years.
The only ‘rorting’ is being done by Qantas trying to ignore provisions in the the EA that don’t suit them.
AIPA will fight this all the way because they are in the right and this is what members pay their subscriptions for.
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It's bit like Kerry Packer's 'use' of the tax law to pay more tax no more than he was required. Using the provisions of the Enterprise Agreement to the best advantage to maximise your income is not a rort - by definition a fraudulent or dishonest practice. In some eyes and in some instances it may be seen as unfair or selfish, but rort it ain't.
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$125 million he walks away with
The company successfully threatened 250 or so Second Officers with redundancy when Covid hit to take LWOP or risk losing their jobs, all because on stand-down provisions they accumulate 6 weeks of AL per year.
Someone made a coloured version of the seniority list indicating in red which SO's took the LWOP out of fear of their jobs. It was heavily red towards the bottom of the list as the junior pilots, many of whom have 25-35 years left in this career, were scared into taking LWOP.
The bounce back happened and they began begging them to return early. Most took 3+ years. Some took 5 years. Company after 2 years was begging them to return, and still is as some refuse.
What do 250 SO's accumulating 6 weeks of AL cost the company per year? About $3.5million. They saved maybe $7 million over two years but now are left with hundreds (if not all) of jaded pilots who absolutely hate senior flight ops management and are absolutely fed up.
Bravo. They'll be carrying that burden for the remainder of their careers for decades to come. What a culture. What a vibe.
The company successfully threatened 250 or so Second Officers with redundancy when Covid hit to take LWOP or risk losing their jobs, all because on stand-down provisions they accumulate 6 weeks of AL per year.
Someone made a coloured version of the seniority list indicating in red which SO's took the LWOP out of fear of their jobs. It was heavily red towards the bottom of the list as the junior pilots, many of whom have 25-35 years left in this career, were scared into taking LWOP.
The bounce back happened and they began begging them to return early. Most took 3+ years. Some took 5 years. Company after 2 years was begging them to return, and still is as some refuse.
What do 250 SO's accumulating 6 weeks of AL cost the company per year? About $3.5million. They saved maybe $7 million over two years but now are left with hundreds (if not all) of jaded pilots who absolutely hate senior flight ops management and are absolutely fed up.
Bravo. They'll be carrying that burden for the remainder of their careers for decades to come. What a culture. What a vibe.
And now being denied promotion onto the 380. Not even getting bypass pay.
Incredible.
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It’s called the day one lottery and has existed forever. It has to be asked why the union is wasting money on such a small group of pilots who are trying to have the last chance at rorting the system?
If the current SOs want a pay rise they’re welcome to bid for FO, it may mean they have to work for living.
If the current SOs want a pay rise they’re welcome to bid for FO, it may mean they have to work for living.
There is no cohesion even within the small ~2500ish ranks of Mainline let alone the rest of the industry.
The first day lottery as a concept was negotiated away in 2015 in exchange for efficiencies and you didn’t even know that because of your own ignorance and inherent focus on yourself and not the pilot body as a whole. Disgraceful - but not at all surprising.
What if an SO already has many 1000’s of hours of domestic narrow-body experience and doesn’t wish to do that type of work anymore because they simply don’t have to. What if their spouse & kids need them to be a sole carer for blocks of time longer than a day or two. What if they can’t afford a house within a reasonable radius of the major airports? What if they need that extra money to pay the mortgage which is going up at a rate the pay isn’t?
A bit of empathy and compassion goes a long way Dre - but if you are anything like your some of your contemporaries I know that may be an impossible ask.
Good work AIPA for getting behind an issue that affects not only mainline pilots today but all that joined before 330/350 SFF came into being. The SO’s of today have crowd-funded enough largesse so far.
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Qantas’ Financial Review boycott: Cuts copies from lounges, in-flight Wi-Fi
By Zoe Samios and Amelia McGuire
May 7, 2023 — 11.40amSave
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Normal text sizeALarger text sizeAVery large text sizeAQantas is boycotting distribution of national masthead The Australian Financial Review, hiding newspapers from its lounges amid an escalating dispute over the coverage of the airline by one of its most prolific columnists.
Customers have also claimed articles are no longer discoverable on the airline’s in-house Wi-Fi, a situation which appears to have coincided with persistent critical coverage of the airline by Rear Window columnist Joe Aston.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce (right) has previously removed newspapers from lounges because of scrutiny.CREDIT: RHETT WYMAN Aston has taken aim at outgoing chief executive Alan Joyce’s leadership, the airline’s fleet and customer service repeatedly in the nine months since the outgoing chief executive claimed he was not a public figure.The coverage, which appears on the back page of the Financial Reviewhas accused Qantas of fare gouging and the rising cost of capital expenditure, which has since been scrutinised widely by analysts. The Financial Review, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age are owned by Nine.
The Financial Review signed its latest deal with Qantas to make its digital content available to all the airline’s customers in its lounges and on flights last July. The commercial deal gives customers full access to the news, analysis and commentary and is expected to expire later this year. Before the COVID-19 pandemic, the Financial Review appeared in Qantas lounges for years.
It coincided with a similar deal with News Corp’s national masthead The Australian and a switch from Sky News to ABC News in Qantas lounges and across the domestic jet fleet. Play Video
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Qantas appoints new CEO
Vanessa Hudson to replace Alan Joyce as Qantas CEO
This isn’t the first time Qantas or Joyce have retaliated to what it perceives to be negative coverage. Joyce pulled millions of dollars in advertising revenue from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age in 2014 and dumped the newspapers from distribution in the aircraft and lounges, over concerns the newspapers were not showing impartiality and were favouring competition Virgin.
In 2014, after Qantas posted a $2.8 billion loss, investigative reporter Adele Ferguson called for Joyce’s resignation. Qantas stopped providing the Herald and The Age on flights soon after in what the airline deemed a review.“We are rationalising the number of newspapers we provide at the gate as part of our transformation, but we will still be providing a full range in our lounges.” A spokesperson said at the time.
Nine’s managing director of publishing James Chessell said Qantas’s decision to censor the newspaper was disappointing.
“It’s disappointing Qantas management has decided to deprive its customers of the country’s best business and finance journalism because it can’t countenance robust criticism.
“We’ve been here before with Qantas, and as always, our editorial independence won’t be affected by commercial pressure. The vast majority of people I speak to think Joe’s Qantas coverage is tough but fair.”
Qantas declined to comment
NOT THE FIRST TIME EITHER. THEY PULLED ALLL ADVERTISING AND NEWSPAPERS FROM FAIRFAX AFTER A STORY ON JETSTAR TO DO WITH A PILOTS PHONE AND A GO AROUND IN SINGAPORE.
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since the outgoing chief executive claimed he was not a public figure.
He's easily, without competition, the most well known, and as a result, infamous CEO in Australia.
Nobody on the street would know who the CEO of Virgin is. Other big companies like the mining giants? Might take a stab and guess Twiggy @ Fortescue, or is he just an owner? Is Gina the CEO of her company or just the owner? Gerry Harvey at Harvey Norman? Wesfarmers? I genuinely don't have a clue.
He's as well known as the PM. And as liked as the former one.
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Myriam Robin
Chairman’s Lounge ban looms for Labor MPs
Myriam RobinColumnist
May 8, 2023 – 8.00am
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The labour movement sends union officials and allies to Canberra, and once there, Qantas sends them everywhere else, the comforts of the Chairman’s Lounge smoothing their passage from organisers and rabble-rousers to fully-fledged members of the Australian elite. Though not if the plumbing division of the Communications Electrical and Plumbing Union has anything to say about it.
A motion proposed for June’s Victorian Labor Party state conference and distributed to delegates last month aims to add membership of Qantas’ chairman’s lounge to a list of proscribed organisations banned to party members.
Plumbers’ union secretary Earl Setches (left) with Premier Daniel Andrews.
“This motion has gone off like a frog in a sock,” said CEPU federal secretary Earl Setches on Sunday. “I’ve not had a bigger reaction at state conference since I promised to shout everyone a drink. I’m hoping the Chairman’s Lounge faction realise they just don’t have the numbers.”
Speaking of: there are 600 delegates to the ALP’s Victorian conference, half drawn from the union movement and half from Labor’s state branches. The overwhelming majority are affiliated with Daniel Andrews’Socialist Left faction, of which the CEPU is not a member. Setches is nonetheless hopeful the motion gets up, particularly with the Transport Workers Union still bluing with the national carrier over its illegal sacking of workers during the pandemic (Qantas’ High Court appeal over the TWU claim starts next week).
Still, seasoned observers reckon there’s no way the motion is getting to the conference floor without a fight. After all, Qantas’ patronage extends far and wide, and into the Australian union movement. Fair Work commissioners have been sighted at the Chairman’s Lounge, as have senior bureaucrats, judges and (some) union powerbrokers. Even Setches used to be a member, but says he resigned some years ago when “my conscience got the better of me”.
Access is still ubiquitous for federal politicians, all of whom receive an invitation. Last week we noted that not all take it up. That’s still the case, we think, but recent disclosures suggest rather more do than we had reason to believe. After we noted Warren Entsch, Anne Ruston, and Katy Gallagher didn’t list membership of the lounge in their disclosures, they updated their paperwork, suggesting tardy compliance with parliament’s disclosure rules is altogether more common than a politician declining access to what Setches has dubbed “Angry Alan’s grace and favour club”.
Copies of The Australian Financial Review have reportedly been removed from the Chairman’s Lounge, in what appears to be retaliation for critical coverage in this column. It doesn’t really undermine Setches’ impression, does it
Chairman’s Lounge ban looms for Labor MPs
Myriam RobinColumnist
May 8, 2023 – 8.00am
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The labour movement sends union officials and allies to Canberra, and once there, Qantas sends them everywhere else, the comforts of the Chairman’s Lounge smoothing their passage from organisers and rabble-rousers to fully-fledged members of the Australian elite. Though not if the plumbing division of the Communications Electrical and Plumbing Union has anything to say about it.
A motion proposed for June’s Victorian Labor Party state conference and distributed to delegates last month aims to add membership of Qantas’ chairman’s lounge to a list of proscribed organisations banned to party members.
Plumbers’ union secretary Earl Setches (left) with Premier Daniel Andrews.
“This motion has gone off like a frog in a sock,” said CEPU federal secretary Earl Setches on Sunday. “I’ve not had a bigger reaction at state conference since I promised to shout everyone a drink. I’m hoping the Chairman’s Lounge faction realise they just don’t have the numbers.”
Speaking of: there are 600 delegates to the ALP’s Victorian conference, half drawn from the union movement and half from Labor’s state branches. The overwhelming majority are affiliated with Daniel Andrews’Socialist Left faction, of which the CEPU is not a member. Setches is nonetheless hopeful the motion gets up, particularly with the Transport Workers Union still bluing with the national carrier over its illegal sacking of workers during the pandemic (Qantas’ High Court appeal over the TWU claim starts next week).
Still, seasoned observers reckon there’s no way the motion is getting to the conference floor without a fight. After all, Qantas’ patronage extends far and wide, and into the Australian union movement. Fair Work commissioners have been sighted at the Chairman’s Lounge, as have senior bureaucrats, judges and (some) union powerbrokers. Even Setches used to be a member, but says he resigned some years ago when “my conscience got the better of me”.
Access is still ubiquitous for federal politicians, all of whom receive an invitation. Last week we noted that not all take it up. That’s still the case, we think, but recent disclosures suggest rather more do than we had reason to believe. After we noted Warren Entsch, Anne Ruston, and Katy Gallagher didn’t list membership of the lounge in their disclosures, they updated their paperwork, suggesting tardy compliance with parliament’s disclosure rules is altogether more common than a politician declining access to what Setches has dubbed “Angry Alan’s grace and favour club”.
Copies of The Australian Financial Review have reportedly been removed from the Chairman’s Lounge, in what appears to be retaliation for critical coverage in this column. It doesn’t really undermine Setches’ impression, does it
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How pathetic and petty is that? Talk about fragile egos.
Needs to HTFU.
Needs to HTFU.
Always inspiring to see elected union officials and parliamentary representatives of downtrodden workers accepting largesse from those doing the treading. I imagine it would be quite disconcerting if one had to come in contact with the working class when travelling.
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To see the Labour Party federal members who are now in power banned from the chairman’s club would be a wonderful day for Australia. The use of this exclusive club with superior lounges, free upgrades and other perks is appalling. Hopefully if successful the liberal party would follow.
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They wouldn't be prone to be banned if they didn't accept the bribe largesse in the first place...
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That's why the bribe largesse works.
HAVE TO LOVE JOE
Rear Window
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The decision by Qantas in recent days to banish The Australian Financial Review from its lounges and inflight Wi-Fi network is only what we’ve come to expect from our national carrier remade in the image of Alan Joyce.
It is, of course, the second such wobbly he’s chucked in 10 years. In 2014, Joyce yanked all Qantas advertising from The Sydney Morning Heraldand The Age and removed all physical copies of those newspapers from Qantas terminals, livid at columnist Adele Ferguson raising the prospect of his sacking over the company’s (then) record $2.8 billion annual loss.
Alan Joyce has constructed a heroic image of himself as the saviour of Qantas. Rhett Wyman It’s an incredibly petty act that actually bears out what we’ve been saying all along about the corrosion of Joyce’s leadership.
This is a decision the public can see, but what other decisions are made beyond our line of sight? Who else has slighted Joyce and suffered the consequences?
The Financial Review is a tiny vendor to Qantas. What becomes of the major catering or engineering supplier who displeases the great man? What is it like for employees who make a mistake, or who fail to genuflect deeply enough?
View QAN related articles This isn’t about a few missing newspapers, but the pattern they represent. Nobody derives profound egoic injury from a single cut. This is a lifelong practice, directing inordinate energies to persecuting those who won’t deify you.
Remember, the most important thing to Joyce isn’t money. He’s made $130 million, so he doesn’t need any more of that. The most important thing in the world to Joyce now is what other people think of him.
In his mind, clearly, he has constructed a heroic image of himself as the saviour of Qantas. He truly believes this. Indeed, he may be incapable of believing anything else.
This is why he says: “I would’ve retired a few years ago, [but] I agreed to stay … to help the company get through a terrible crisis,” when in May 2019, well before COVID, the Qantas board had publicly confirmed a three-year extension of his tenure. Joyce had erased this from his mind, again, because it conflicts with his saviour narrative.
This is also why he internalises the company’s successes and externalises all of its failures. On being 11 weeks from bankruptcy but getting Qantas through COVID, and on its record profitability, he leans heavily into his own agency. On lost bags, schedule chaos and woeful customer service, those are just ailments of the entire global airline industry.
All of this delusion is enabled by Joyce’s chairman, Richard Goyder, from whom Joyce garners sympathy by playing the vulnerable teenager. Goyder is fully signed up to all of Joyce’s narratives. The duo exhibit all the dynamics of an enmeshed family. It is frankly creepy.
Joyce is particularly sensitive about any threats to his hero story because he is at a delicate juncture in his life. His borrowed power is evaporating, the countdown is on, and he is transitioning to Mr Altruism, Mr Community. Joyce is seeking moral elevation right as his balloon is losing air.
The sad fact is that Alan Joyce is emotionally ill-equipped to cope with his dead-set legend complex falling apart upon close public inspection. It is absolutely devastating to him – after 15 years of almost uninterrupted adulation – to be seen for what he really is: just another overpaid, insecure, unexceptional businessman who believes his own bull****; just another CEO who did to his company what was best for himself.
Joyce has sustained the deepest wound to his internal dialogue, and his rage is like a wildfire. It goes to any opportunity, it knows no proportion, it descends to every pettiness. He probably realised how silly purging the Financial Review would make him look, but his ego defence overrides any calculation of consequences.
Luckily, Qantas isn’t sophisticated enough to lose my bags on purpose and to ban me from flights they’d need a CRM system that isn’t held together by rubber bands and twine. Instead, Joyce will just have to slip salt in my sugar bowl.
Rear Window
How low will Alan Joyce go?
Joe AstonColumnistMay 8, 2023 – 7.30pmSave
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The decision by Qantas in recent days to banish The Australian Financial Review from its lounges and inflight Wi-Fi network is only what we’ve come to expect from our national carrier remade in the image of Alan Joyce.
It is, of course, the second such wobbly he’s chucked in 10 years. In 2014, Joyce yanked all Qantas advertising from The Sydney Morning Heraldand The Age and removed all physical copies of those newspapers from Qantas terminals, livid at columnist Adele Ferguson raising the prospect of his sacking over the company’s (then) record $2.8 billion annual loss.
Alan Joyce has constructed a heroic image of himself as the saviour of Qantas. Rhett Wyman It’s an incredibly petty act that actually bears out what we’ve been saying all along about the corrosion of Joyce’s leadership.This is a decision the public can see, but what other decisions are made beyond our line of sight? Who else has slighted Joyce and suffered the consequences?
The Financial Review is a tiny vendor to Qantas. What becomes of the major catering or engineering supplier who displeases the great man? What is it like for employees who make a mistake, or who fail to genuflect deeply enough?
RELATED QUOTES
QANQantas
$6.370 0.79%1 year1 dayMay 22Nov 22May 234.2005.6007.000 Updated: May 8, 2023 – 9.50pm. Data is 20 mins delayed.View QAN related articles This isn’t about a few missing newspapers, but the pattern they represent. Nobody derives profound egoic injury from a single cut. This is a lifelong practice, directing inordinate energies to persecuting those who won’t deify you.
Remember, the most important thing to Joyce isn’t money. He’s made $130 million, so he doesn’t need any more of that. The most important thing in the world to Joyce now is what other people think of him.
In his mind, clearly, he has constructed a heroic image of himself as the saviour of Qantas. He truly believes this. Indeed, he may be incapable of believing anything else.
Saviour narrative
This is why Joyce makes statements that come across as comically self-unaware. He cannot express gratitude for the Australian government handing Qantas $2.7 billion during the pandemic. He even goes as far as claiming Qantas “ended up getting very little government support”. He is unable to acknowledge that taxpayers helped rescue Qantas because it is incompatible with his conviction that he alone rescued Qantas.This is why he says: “I would’ve retired a few years ago, [but] I agreed to stay … to help the company get through a terrible crisis,” when in May 2019, well before COVID, the Qantas board had publicly confirmed a three-year extension of his tenure. Joyce had erased this from his mind, again, because it conflicts with his saviour narrative.
This is also why he internalises the company’s successes and externalises all of its failures. On being 11 weeks from bankruptcy but getting Qantas through COVID, and on its record profitability, he leans heavily into his own agency. On lost bags, schedule chaos and woeful customer service, those are just ailments of the entire global airline industry.
All of this delusion is enabled by Joyce’s chairman, Richard Goyder, from whom Joyce garners sympathy by playing the vulnerable teenager. Goyder is fully signed up to all of Joyce’s narratives. The duo exhibit all the dynamics of an enmeshed family. It is frankly creepy.
Joyce is particularly sensitive about any threats to his hero story because he is at a delicate juncture in his life. His borrowed power is evaporating, the countdown is on, and he is transitioning to Mr Altruism, Mr Community. Joyce is seeking moral elevation right as his balloon is losing air.
The sad fact is that Alan Joyce is emotionally ill-equipped to cope with his dead-set legend complex falling apart upon close public inspection. It is absolutely devastating to him – after 15 years of almost uninterrupted adulation – to be seen for what he really is: just another overpaid, insecure, unexceptional businessman who believes his own bull****; just another CEO who did to his company what was best for himself.
Joyce has sustained the deepest wound to his internal dialogue, and his rage is like a wildfire. It goes to any opportunity, it knows no proportion, it descends to every pettiness. He probably realised how silly purging the Financial Review would make him look, but his ego defence overrides any calculation of consequences.
Luckily, Qantas isn’t sophisticated enough to lose my bags on purpose and to ban me from flights they’d need a CRM system that isn’t held together by rubber bands and twine. Instead, Joyce will just have to slip salt in my sugar bowl.
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Now that is what I call an evisceration.
Those last few paragraphs, wow!
Those last few paragraphs, wow!
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We must also remember the wobbly he threw when he shut the airline down because he couldnt get his own way.
These tantrums are what 1 would expect out of a spoilt 2 yr old child but in his case its coming from someone who likes to bully & stand over whoever he can.
Will the culture change after he goes,who really knows!
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blubak; Check your pm's.
https://loyaltylobby.com/2023/05/12/...record-profit/
There is only one employee in Qantas who will get a bonus like that and we all know who that is.
There is only one employee in Qantas who will get a bonus like that and we all know who that is.