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Old 12th Oct 2017, 06:00   #41 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
What this sounds like is that with more widebody flying on the Tasman there is less and less flying for JC crew. Thus the rumoured solution for them fly domestically seems more about keeping them working efficiently. The secondary benefit of assisting with shortages of mainline 737 crew is great in the short term but you can perhaps forgive mainline crew for being a bit cagey given how the Jetconnect operation has contributed to the adverse impact on mainline careers over the last decade plus.
Slight problem is that one Domestic sector activates the FairWork Act and implies they must be paid as Australian Pilots under the Short Haul Award. The Company has outsmarted itself! What do they want efficiency or a Lower Cost base? You can't have both!
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:16   #42 (permalink)
Keg

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I think the lower cost base is secondary these days to simply crewing services. We are cancelling services on an almost daily basis due to lack of 737 (and A330) crew. In the meantime we look like reducing the amount of flying that needs to be flown by Jetconnect.

How does QF solve that problem in the short term? I suspect the lever they'll pull will be to use those JC crew domestically even if it means having to pay them more. It solves a bigger problem and means the training load can abate somewhat from 'manic' to 'simply chaotic'.

I don't like it and I don't agree with it but I reckon it'll happen. This has been a slow moving train wreck that was foreseeable from well before the demotion of 42 767 Captains, 60+ 767 F/Os and the RIN of various A380 F/Os to the A330 just two years ago.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:17   #43 (permalink)
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by Eaglet View Post
Any chance J C could convert to a widebody fleet 787/330? Doing trans-tasmans then continuing onto an Asian destination as part of a trip.
No. Not a hope in Hades.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:33   #44 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
I think the lower cost base is secondary these days to simply crewing services. We are cancelling services on an almost daily basis due to lack of 737 (and A330) crew. In the meantime we look like reducing the amount of flying that needs to be flown by Jetconnect.

How does QF solve that problem in the short term? I suspect the lever they'll pull will be to use those JC crew domestically even if it means having to pay them more. It solves a bigger problem and means the training load can abate somewhat from 'manic' to 'simply chaotic'.

I don't like it and I don't agree with it but I reckon it'll happen. This has been a slow moving train wreck that was foreseeable from well before the demotion of 42 767 Captains, 60+ 767 F/Os and the RIN of various A380 F/Os to the A330 just two years ago.
👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏

The problem is there is no accountability, no heads will roll. It will be a train wreck for the next few years if not longer. The lunatics are well and truly in charge of the asylum.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:43   #45 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏

The problem is there is no accountability, no heads will roll. It will be a train wreck for the next few years if not longer. The lunatics are well and truly in charge of the asylum.
Accountability?

For what? They think it went perfectly lol
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:54   #46 (permalink)
 
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I recall reading that Alan Joyce was not a huge fan of the B737 flying the TT routes. The A330 supplemented with an A321 size aircraft would do the job nicely.
EK's commercial decision to remove all A380 flying from TT routes leaves QF and more importantly JC with a real dilemma...and I hope JC get JQ's A321's and send the B738's to mainline, but I suspect that JC will suffer the consequences.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 08:55   #47 (permalink)
 
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Is AKL a engineering base for EK? One would assume with four supers in daily they would have a significant amount of resources over there, obviously not for much longer.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 10:48   #48 (permalink)
 
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Is AKL a engineering base for EK? One would assume with four supers in daily they would have a significant amount of resources over there, obviously not for much longer.
What do you mean? Superdoopers never break...it's an Aeerboos, nuffin eva goes wrong.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 19:26   #49 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
I think the lower cost base is secondary these days to simply crewing services. We are cancelling services on an almost daily basis due to lack of 737 (and A330) crew. In the meantime we look like reducing the amount of flying that needs to be flown by Jetconnect.

How does QF solve that problem in the short term? I suspect the lever they'll pull will be to use those JC crew domestically even if it means having to pay them more. It solves a bigger problem and means the training load can abate somewhat from 'manic' to 'simply chaotic'.

I don't like it and I don't agree with it but I reckon it'll happen. This has been a slow moving train wreck that was foreseeable from well before the demotion of 42 767 Captains, 60+ 767 F/Os and the RIN of various A380 F/Os to the A330 just two years ago.
It is just a matter of convincing the IR department that their Jetconnect "win" in 2011 will be undone by what you are suggesting and the fact that Qantas has just employed a floor of Freehill people to replace Sue Bussell means their antagonistic approach to IR is not about to change anytime soon.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 00:51   #50 (permalink)
 
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The guys and gals over the ditch working for Disconnect (Jetconnect for the hard humoured) are trying desperately to tackle a new more attractive contract since April 2016. The company has done their utmost best to squash any sort of reasonable negotiations for the new contract. Delayed meetings, walking out of meetings, cancelling meetings last minute all to prolong the process. They have created a work environment which is so poor and disconnected nearly all pilots are moving on at the earliest convenience.

Who ever has seen, worked for or even considered working for this company has been quick to realise that the company is far beneath even the low cost operator running along side them in New Zealand. They have had to hire direct entry Captains for the first time because none of the FOs have the time on type to upgrade because those getting anywhere near have left for other operators. They are also wanting to drive down even further new entry FOs on only 60k under the new proposal in the contract. What a joke considering their Qantas counterparts are laughing at them across the ditch. They will shortly get a rude shock when the pilots depart the operation once again and there are no others coming along to accept such a poor a working contract.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 01:57   #51 (permalink)
 
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An accurate post Hold Short. There seems to be a lot of rumours in this thread of JC being shut down. Haven't these rumours been around since JC first started? Admittedly though getting down to a fleet of 6 aircraft is starting to push the whole economies of scale with what is becoming a pretty small operation with a stand alone AOC, separate management etc.

It is hard to believe JC management aren't prepared to budge (with small exceptions) on the contract negotiations though in such a buoyant pilot market. Sounds like a few guys have had enough and are talking with their feet.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 03:14   #52 (permalink)
 
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I would imagine JC management is controlled by QF management who pay the bills and will get what they want.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 03:22   #53 (permalink)
 
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I would imagine JC management is controlled by QF management who pay the bills and will get what they want.
I'm sure some of it is QF Management, but if there's any truth to what I've heard out of JC, a lot of stems from their own management...
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 07:53   #54 (permalink)
 
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I would imagine JC management is controlled by QF management who pay the bills and will get what they want.
As CEO of Disconnect Mr Paul Daff stated in in testimony to Fair Work Australia,

SC MOSES:So there's a letter of retainer between Jetconnect and that (law) firm?


CEO DAFF: 'I wouldn't say there's a letter of retainer, but we paid the bills. The bills came and we paid them.'


MOSES: Who paid the bills?


DAFF: We process the bills in our office and they get paid ultimately by Qantas.


MOSES: Qantas pay the bills?


DAFF: Well, Qantas pays all our bills, yes




He was as you said Mr Joyce; 'having a bad day'


Disconnect (I like that) commenced operations from the Ashes of Ansett New Zealand. It started as a labour hire company, reflected in the financial statements.


It quickly morphed into:


'The operation and management of aircraft to fulfill a schedule of trans Tasman commercial passenger flights.'




Quote:
It is just a matter of convincing the IR department that their Jetconnect "win" in 2011 will be undone by what you are suggesting and the fact that Qantas has just employed a floor of Freehill people to replace Sue Bussell means their antagonistic approach to IR is not about to change anytime soon
That is a succinct statement, whilst it makes no commercial sense and as an 'airline' has few assets and not even a fuel bill, IR/HR will ensure that no expense is spared to save labour unit cost, whether it makes economic sense or not..

Last edited by Rated De; 13th Oct 2017 at 07:55. Reason: typo
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 12:36   #55 (permalink)
 
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Hold_Short

is on it!

The pay is bad, and the work is relentless. They can't get enough crew. The FO's they recruit are only there to get enough 737 time so that they can go somewhere else, and not hanging around for an upgrade.

The pay over there is similar to what a Q400 pilot earns in Australia; some FO's worked out they're financially better off on the Q400 in SYD instead of being a 737 FO in AKL.

JC comes under "Associated Airlines and Services" which includes all the smaller bits of the group, such as Network, Eastern/Sunstate, JC, and the governance of Cobham 717's.

All managed by Teflon John. Anyone who's seen an EA negotiated with him at the helm knows that he's like. He's more than happy to negotiate conditions that ensures people leave. He can blame the future pilot exodus on other factors and get away with it. He was responsible for two major decisions in the past three years that has left Eastern/Sunstate reeling; yet he's still there.

JC management are probably happy with the return of two airframes: means they can crew the remaining ones easier. Kind of like when Qantas announced that "due to customer demand" the CNS-POM Q400 flights would be replaced by a BNE-POM 737. Absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that 40% of the Cairns base had resigned and they couldn't crew the flights anymore.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 14:22   #56 (permalink)
 
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I'm struggling to see why people think that QF would want to transition staff away from JetConnect with its cheaper labour rates and ideal position for greater aircraft utilisation
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 23:40   #57 (permalink)
 
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In my own opinion, I would think they would increase the work force even more over at Jetconnect as all employees there get paid roughly 35% less than their Aussie counterparts. To the travelling public, they see the Qantas tail, the Qantas uniform and an english speaking crew, so they assume everyone on the 'good old' Qantas contracts all round. Little do they know that all employees over the ditch are only there for a short time not a long time.

I find it quite odd that this type of business even exists in the first place from a political perspective. How the Australian Government allows this type of shonky overseas operation to portray a fake image of 'Australian' service is beyond my understanding. How does the Australian workers union allow this to happen makes me question the fact that if its okay to do it now, why don't they continue to expand the operation if it is so cost effective?

As per Sykes comments, god only knows why people would move over there to take up a job that is so underpaid its quite hilarious. The cabin crew and pilots contracts are even below that of their 'low cost' operator Jetstar, yet they operate a full service brand. One example is, that Jetstar turboprop pilots get 'guaranteed' Business class duty travel over Jetconnect pilot duty travel. They are left stuck in economy on the aircraft they operate. I call that a copout!

I have a few mates who work there now and I had considered going there for 'experience' however, listening to the talk within the crew, I'll stick to my job here. The type of managers there are the laughing stock of the bunch, they are do nothing more than drive down the moral within the group. Its a shame because it could be a great division of the Qantas group but from my perspective its on the lowest of rungs for a premium airline, or so to speak.

These two gents have interviews elsewhere and they say there are countless others who are going shortly too. Let hope their pilots call the shots and stop putting up with such a backwards set of managers and start getting some progress with their negotiations.
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 23:52   #58 (permalink)
 
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Does this mean EK flights to Auckland will now be non stop from Dubai with the A380 or B777 ?

Will the EK, DXB - SIN - BNE - AKL route now terminate in BNE or miss it out ?
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 01:12   #59 (permalink)
 
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Well if the Pilot shortage is real, and JC conditions so bad, then JC will start having crewing problems. If people keep turning up then it will continue.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 01:23   #60 (permalink)
 
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I'm struggling to see why people think that QF would want to transition staff away from JetConnect with its cheaper labour rates and ideal position for greater aircraft utilisation
Moa999, you are right that, geographically, crews based in NZ can have far more efficient patterns than Aus based crews and, coupled with the significantly lower wages, you would expect it to be the best option. Unfortunately, the cost of the Jet Connect operation is higher per sector than equivalent sectors in Australia and has been of concern for a few years. I don't know where the cost problem is, but it may be due to the high turnover of staff as well as the lack of "economy of scale". I don't think that JC will be closed down but there is definitely pressure to drive down the costs.
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