Wikiposts
Search
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Alliance switch to NZ AOC

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 09:36
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,276
Received 37 Likes on 28 Posts
Alliance switch to NZ AOC

Alliance are threatening to move to an NZ AOC over the costs of compliance and other CASA restrictions .

Brave move but good to see someone showing initiative .

Bravo Scott👏
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 09:50
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Could set a precedence for some of the smaller airline operators if it's successful. Although I'm sure CASA would find a way of making it difficult to operate in Aus under a foreign AOC if too many try.
wishiwasupthere is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 10:44
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,276
Received 37 Likes on 28 Posts
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
Alliance are threatening to move to an NZ AOC over the costs of compliance and other CASA restrictions .

Brave move but good to see someone showing initiative .

Bravo Scott👏

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...nz-aoc-422678/
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 19:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Enzed
Posts: 2,289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They'll still need GNSS in New Zealand if they're to operate without any ATC/tracking impact.
27/09 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 22:13
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,071
Received 138 Likes on 63 Posts
Smart idea as there is an agreement between CASA and the CAA with receiprocal rights. Make a big noise politically about it and you can quite legally fly around Australia on a ZK rego. Vincent did it for years including RPT.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2016, 23:43
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: previous russian ports
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
QQ Fleet

For the record, Alliance Aircraft are ADSB compliant and all are fitted with integrated GNSS.
They also have an F50 based in NZ already.
topgun0007 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 02:25
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: byron bay
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Smart idea as there is an agreement between CASA and the CAA with receiprocal rights. Make a big noise politically about it and you can quite legally fly around Australia on a ZK rego. Vincent did it for years including RPT.
Vincent did it on a ZK rego but only with the 146 I believe, which only did charters for mining co. I believe.

That said a NZ AOC must be worth much more than an Australian AOC.

Imagine not having to deal with CASA at all & only having to meet NZCAA rules, which are apparently much much simpler.

Think a few smaller NZL airlines are looking to branch out in to Australia, as it's apparently very easy to ZK regos to fly here.

Think there is some rule that states, NZL operations must be greater than OZ ops, but am sure that could be interpreted a number of ways, ie. charter vs RPT.
TT738 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 02:27
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: byron bay
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere
Could set a precedence for some of the smaller airline operators if it's successful. Although I'm sure CASA would find a way of making it difficult to operate in Aus under a foreign AOC if too many try.
not foreign AOC but rather a NZL AOC. New Zealand might be foreign country but NZL AOC, is superior in some ways to OZ AOC.

Skyforce were apparently looking to put their 146's on NZL register, before they closed up shop, as apparently they were getting so much agro from CASA.
TT738 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 03:54
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AKL
Age: 34
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Make a big noise politically about and you can quite legally fly around Australia on a ZK rego. Vincient did it for years including RPT.
NZ are currently doing on there SYD-NLK & BNE-NLK services, which are funded by the Australian government!


It isn't really much different to Eastern Australian Airlines flying there Q300s around New Zealand with an VH on the back of the plane.

Could it even tempt Qantas to move all the Q300s over to ZK?
cavemanzk is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 04:32
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I'm a wanderer
Age: 43
Posts: 421
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by cavemanzk
Could it even tempt Qantas to move all the Q300s over to ZK?
I think Qantas would move the whole operation to NZ given half the chance. Pay everyone NZ wages under NZ terms. They could cut the work force in half, get the same work done and make billions more in profit!
empacher48 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 04:38
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pay everyone NZ wages under NZ terms.
I was wondering about the IR implications? Surely if you're operating under a NZ AOC but based in Australia, Australian IR laws would apply to you?
wishiwasupthere is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 04:41
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I'm a wanderer
Age: 43
Posts: 421
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere
I was wondering about the IR implications? Surely if you're operating under a NZ AOC but based in Australia, Australian IR laws would apply to you?
That's easy, they already have an operation set up here in NZ with pilots and cabin crew all employed on NZ conditions. It would be a stroke of a pen to shift everyone else over, Qantas Australia shuts down, everyone is out of a job. If you want your job sign on the dotted line to work being based out of NZ.
empacher48 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 04:47
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But we're talking about Alliance, not Qantas. Considering most of their operation is in Aus, the cost of accommodation and per diem's putting them up whilst spending most of their time in Aus would quickly chew up any savings in reduced pay.

So my question is, if you are based in Aus, but working for a company that's AOC is in New Zealand, I would assume you would still need to be paid IAW Aus IR.
wishiwasupthere is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 04:58
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paradise
Age: 68
Posts: 1,551
Received 51 Likes on 19 Posts
So my question is, if you are based in Aus, but working for a company that's AOC is in New Zealand, I would assume you would still need to be paid IAW Aus IR.
That is how it works for Airwork.
chimbu warrior is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 05:55
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,467
Received 55 Likes on 38 Posts
Kiwi regs are better than ours, current and proposed if they ever get implemented.

If a few other operators got on the band wagon with a some good aviation lawyers, this could be interesting....

Anyone considered CASR Part 129 which goes live on the 20th of April? Might be worth will doing a gap analysis.
Duck Pilot is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 06:22
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paradise
Age: 68
Posts: 1,551
Received 51 Likes on 19 Posts
Anyone considered CASR Part 129 which goes live on the 20th of April? Might be worth will doing a gap analysis.
Any operator complying with NZ part 121 will easily satisfy these requirements.
chimbu warrior is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 07:10
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 606
Received 13 Likes on 3 Posts
AOC's and EBA's are two entirely separate animals.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the AOC is the regulatory operating certificate and doesn't care where the pilots come from.

The EBA on the otherhand cares where the people come from (I.e. Are they a party to the agreement) and doesn't care what rego is painted on the tail.

Jetstar has pilots in NZ flying VH tailed aeroplanes under a NZ agreement, same as Virgin, Qantas has cabin crew from various parts of the world flying on an Australian registered and operated aeroplane under agreements applicable to their domicile country.

WishIwasupthere has nailed it with regards the costs of shifting everyone to NZ to live just to get access to "cheaper" terms and conditions.
Snakecharma is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 09:38
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Not Syderknee
Posts: 1,011
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Jetstar already tried to offshore their pilots to NZ in the form of cadets. It didn't work, and those cadets who signed up for it ended up on the full Aus deal courtesy of the AFAP. They stopped the cadet program after that, why buy a cadet when you can get a more experienced pilot for the same price?
rmcdonal is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 10:51
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Wasn't there something similar with Pacific Blue ?
Metro man is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 11:41
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Vincent did it on a ZK rego but only with the 146 I believe, which only did charters for mining co. I believe.
I remember seeing their Dash 8 running around Oz on a ZK rego. Doing a tourist charter IIRC.
PLovett is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.