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Old 27th Mar 2012, 06:41   #81 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: aus
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I think you clowns have forgotten China Eastern. Bring that into the equation. Jetstar Japan will do very well with the JAL link up.

Last edited by LMFAO; 27th Mar 2012 at 07:04.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 07:07   #82 (permalink)
 
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SWH, your comments re where the company is controlled are expanded on here in Ben's Blog by Andrew Pyne-

Jetstar Hong Kong may require rewriting SAR's Basic Law | Plane Talking

Pyne seems to have some good quals and knows what he is talking about.
If they do not get that regulatory approval it looks like the idea will be well and truly sunk.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 07:41   #83 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Hopefully Jetstar can get a fair share of the growth in Asia.
Indeed. But it may not be so simple.


Quote:
You people astound me by wanting an Australian airline to fail.
That's just the point. I'd suggest there are very few on these boards who want an Australian airline to fail. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 08:05   #84 (permalink)
 
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Why would China Eastern need/want some pathetic little upstart of an airline like Orangestar?
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 08:21   #85 (permalink)
 
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LMFAO, you lost all your credibility when you confidently predicted QF would buy Strategic to fly the 787.

Troll.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 08:47   #86 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Might add that pilots will need to pay full Oz tax, as the Oz ATO works on the residence idea, not where you sleep or work, 23AG is dead. And the HK IRD works on the where the company is controlled idea. An airline cannot fly internationally out of HKG unless it is controlled from HKG, the 51% ownership rule (like Oz and SIN) does not apply in HKG.
What has the Australian tax laws and the Oz ATO got to do with it?

Australian arrogance never surprises me. Just because it is Jetstar, why does it have anything to do with Australian tax laws? Do you automatically assume the pilots employed will be Australian? Not Canadian? NZ? Samoan? Unemployed bum?

Are you trying to say that if a Canadian is employed he will be subject to Aus tax laws as that is where (we presume) the airline is controlled. Get your hand off it!

BTW, since Jetstar Fltops department and 80% of it's Check Pilots are Ex Ansett it will be interesting that eventually these guys will be controlling QF. Based on the predictions that Jetstar will expand at the expense of QF. Not my words just the comments made in this thread and others.

Cheers!
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 10:36   #87 (permalink)
 
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Orangestar went broke.....bought out by Newstar...........
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 10:51   #88 (permalink)
 
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Yea woop woop, lets hope that this brings Jetstar down and that the bang on effect will be for Qantas to go down the drain as well. Then we will all get what we want...... we will all be out of work

Ollie
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 10:53   #89 (permalink)
 
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I seem to recall SQ airlines wanted equity in China Eastern Airlines (CEA)

Then along came CX, with a higher bid for that same equity.

CEA shareholders (if my memory services me correctly) scuttled the deal as not being in the interest of China Eastern.

BB reckons he's going to take airline management expertise up to Hong Kong.

The arrogance of this mob is unbelievable.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 10:55   #90 (permalink)
 
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Wink

"the arrogance of these people is unbelievable"

Well he is Australian!
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 10:58   #91 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Why would China Eastern need/want some pathetic little upstart of an airline like Orangestar?
1A - They wanna know what Boston Bruce's plans for a low cost carrier are for HKG, so they can then pull out of the deal with that IP.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 11:10   #92 (permalink)
 
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The ownership of Dragonair prior to the CX takeover was 38% CNAC and 28% CITIC, both of these companies were mainland owned and Hong Kong based.

China Eastern will be setting up a holding company that is no doubt based in Hong Kong which will meet the basic law requirements. HNA group has done exactly the same with Hong Kong Airlines.

The Basic Law was written to ensure that mainland chinese companies would not be disadvantaged.

A foreign firm without Hong Kong or mainland Chinese investment would have no chance, but Joyce has secured China Eastern. Their biggest shareholder is the Chinese government.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 12:18   #93 (permalink)
 
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Gnadnberg and crew, not sure where you re getting your info re JQ Asia(read Singapore), but the guys are doing very well. Bringing home a very good salary, and so far from what I have heard is EBA guys are queuing up to get onboard!!
20000+k a month is not bad for 15 days work in anyone's language!!!
I also agree that JQ japan will do very well, but HKG???? Who knows......
Good luck to the QF guys still hanging in there, I think you are going to have an interesting few yrs ahead of you....
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 12:24   #94 (permalink)
 
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Is that 20K AUD?
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 12:27   #95 (permalink)
 
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Franchises and Repatriated Profit

Jetstar is a franchise with minority holdings in each of it ventures.
The majority of the profit goes to the majority shareholder.
How will the profit aportioned to Jetstar find its way back to the Qantas group.?
Most if not all countries heavily tax repatriated profit. Particularly Asian economic jurisdictions.
Surely the time effort and money poured into these ventures would be better directed to improving and growing the Qantas mainline entity.
The duplication of costs for example seems to be either poorly thought out or ill considered.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 12:33   #96 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
the guys are doing very well. Bringing home a very good salary, and so far from what I have heard is EBA guys are queuing up to get onboard!! 20000+k a month is not bad for 15 days work in anyone's language!!
That's a rather misleading statement as living as a non citizen anywhere in the world is expensive.

I would suggest that 240K in Singapore wouldn't leave alot left over if you had 2-3 kids. Remember you are paying full fare for schooling/health. Rent is expensive, cost of living is expensive. Don't get me wrong 240k is reasonable but you won't be living large by any stretch of the imagination.

Why do you think Emirates offer schooling/health/accommodation as part of their package?

Same goes for Jetstar HKG. As a small airline there won't to many problems. However if it is successful and grows I don't know how they will crew it. You can't cut corners on expat salaries and the cost of training local Chinese crews would be prohibitive.

Jetstar Australia get free pilots that ain't going to happen in Asia if you want a big airline.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 12:35   #97 (permalink)
 
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Is that 20K AUD?
Even if it's SGD, if they're on local (SG) contracts then factor in the lower tax rate and you're not doing too badly; probably more in hand than someone getting the same number in AU. It's all paid gross (tax is paid in the following year, by the taxpayer) with no super / pension deduction (if you're not a citizen or permanent resident).

NN is correct, a foreigner does then have to make their own arrangements for health cover, schools, pension etc. and cars are excruciatingly expensive, but SGD 240k / year can buy you a fairly reasonable lifestyle in SIN city.

Put it this way, a single-earner household in Sydney can find it tough on AUD 240k / year, after the mortgage, car and kids; same in Sing. You probably wouldn't be far ahead, but you probably wouldn't be too far behind, either.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 22:12   #98 (permalink)
 
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Defcon4's comment is on the money. There is nothing for the Qantas shareholder in any of these deals.

There is everything for the Board and Management because:

1. On the surface, these ventures look attractive "Huge Asian Markets" etc.

2. The Board and management are going to "look very busy" implementing this strategy. There will be lots of important trips and meetings...and photo opportunities. I once had a group general manager colleague who excelled at this, his presentations were impeccable, his meetings and organisation charts were superb, but...

3. There is a need to generate a financial return in cash to Qantas shareholders from all this activity. That is the presentation slide I would want to see.....But I guess I'm old fashioned - show me the money.
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Old 27th Mar 2012, 22:44   #99 (permalink)
 
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Stillgoing is spot on!

Quote:
Australian arrogance never surprises me. Just because it is Jetstar, why does it have anything to do with Australian tax laws? Do you automatically assume the pilots employed will be Australian? Not Canadian? NZ? Samoan? Unemployed bum?

Are you trying to say that if a Canadian is employed he will be subject to Aus tax laws as that is where (we presume) the airline is controlled. Get your hand off it!
With pilot cadet training courses now flourishing with Chinese based airlines and a lot of that training being done by Australians in Oz at places like Oxford and FTA, it makes sense that the budget workforce will come from China Eastern, with the aircraft and branding from Jetstar.

Growth in Hong Kong will occur at the expense of one (or more) of the other established Jetstar franchises.
It will obviously all be under local terms and conditions, placing pressure on the other businesses to lower their labour costs. Welcome to the D-scale!

The ATO will not see any tax revenue, because as a group company, the books will be manipulated to ensure the loss is transferred to the necessary entity. So Australians are yet again training themselves out of a job, and helping out another country!
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 00:09   #100 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The ATO will not see any tax revenue, as a group company, the books will be manipulated to ensure the loss is transferred to the necessary entity.
It's not just the ATO that will miss out.

Last edited by C441; 28th Mar 2012 at 02:38.
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