OzJet - Business is tough just after 2 days in
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
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Well you must remember people with as much money as Paul didn't get their money by not understanding business.
Actually the wisdom in launching when not much business travel would be occuring is that the "teething" problems would be sorted for the big rush.
An astitute observation about the 2 to 2 1/2 hour threshold. People put up with the airborne version of a greyhound bus on an hour long trip.
I hope he goes the Perth option, I'm flying in March and would give it a go if the price is right!
Actually the wisdom in launching when not much business travel would be occuring is that the "teething" problems would be sorted for the big rush.
An astitute observation about the 2 to 2 1/2 hour threshold. People put up with the airborne version of a greyhound bus on an hour long trip.
I hope he goes the Perth option, I'm flying in March and would give it a go if the price is right!
Why is Peter Harbison (the dag on the bum of the aviation sheep) being quoted as knowledgeable about aviation?
To now start sprouting-off about the viability or otherwise of OzJet has too many shades of 13 years ago and the termination of Compass, an event with which he is intimately and shamefully familiar.
People's wellbeings and livelihoods are at stake here and should not be influenced by some Loser with no real aviation credibility except to destroy the lives of innocent people.
To now start sprouting-off about the viability or otherwise of OzJet has too many shades of 13 years ago and the termination of Compass, an event with which he is intimately and shamefully familiar.
People's wellbeings and livelihoods are at stake here and should not be influenced by some Loser with no real aviation credibility except to destroy the lives of innocent people.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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...does anyone know whether in fact the 737-200 with hush-kits can actually fly SYD-PER. I realise with only 60 seats the aircraft is lighter but does the aircraft actually have the endurance to do the run?
I agree with Pass-o-Frozo - many corporations have a travel policy that changes based on the duration of the flight. Anything over around 3 hours allows them to fly business class, whereas on anything less the policy is economy class.
Of course, the other dynamic that works against him is that "long-haul" PER flights give him less cycle utilisation (frequency). Less cycle utilisation + low seating capacity are the antithesis of profitability. He will be forced to raise his fares quite considerably. He may be cheaper than QF business class, but with so much more attributes to the QF service (freindliness aside) it will be a hard win.
I make no secret that I don't think the airline will work and have said so from day one. I agree that that is my opinion only. However, shooting yourself in the foot by constantly giving the airline a "drop dead by date" if loads don't pick up will seriously be working aganist him. He needs the regularity of corporate contracts, not the odd traveller here or there. As most contracts are with QF or VB at the moment, and are given discounts for their volume of travel, I doubt whether any would risk transferring to OZJet with the risk of the airline ceasing ops and they having to grovel back to QF to pick up their contracts.
I agree with Pass-o-Frozo - many corporations have a travel policy that changes based on the duration of the flight. Anything over around 3 hours allows them to fly business class, whereas on anything less the policy is economy class.
Of course, the other dynamic that works against him is that "long-haul" PER flights give him less cycle utilisation (frequency). Less cycle utilisation + low seating capacity are the antithesis of profitability. He will be forced to raise his fares quite considerably. He may be cheaper than QF business class, but with so much more attributes to the QF service (freindliness aside) it will be a hard win.
I make no secret that I don't think the airline will work and have said so from day one. I agree that that is my opinion only. However, shooting yourself in the foot by constantly giving the airline a "drop dead by date" if loads don't pick up will seriously be working aganist him. He needs the regularity of corporate contracts, not the odd traveller here or there. As most contracts are with QF or VB at the moment, and are given discounts for their volume of travel, I doubt whether any would risk transferring to OZJet with the risk of the airline ceasing ops and they having to grovel back to QF to pick up their contracts.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Perth would be interesting PAF. I'm not fully conversant with their equipment list, but the fact that they're pretty ancient -200s together with some unsubstantiated scuttlebutt I've heard suggests that they might not be all that suited for syd-per. It's a fair hike - ETOPs requirements & all that stuff. Someone even said to me they're not RVSM approved, though I take that with a grain of salt for the time being.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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G'day DutchRoll,
I don't think RVSM approval would be a show stopper. Never seems to be a problem until you start getting within a few hundred miles of Sydney, then get pushed down by ATC.
Barbossa:
You evidently haven't flown A330 business class. I changed my flight to take a 737-800 because the A330 Business Class is so crap.
I don't think RVSM approval would be a show stopper. Never seems to be a problem until you start getting within a few hundred miles of Sydney, then get pushed down by ATC.
Barbossa:
with so much more attributes to the QF service
Join Date: May 2004
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Barbossa
The only economic dynamics worth worrying about are RPK, ASK and yield per ASK. Cycle and frequency are a furphy.
Perhaps the comments about corporate restrictions on J class for a one-hour trip are correct. But - does OzJet even call it J class?
VHCU
the other dynamic that works against him is that "long-haul" PER flights give him less cycle utilisation
Perhaps the comments about corporate restrictions on J class for a one-hour trip are correct. But - does OzJet even call it J class?
VHCU
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Maybe not in a herc PAF (why LMAS didn't include it in the J still puzzles me - ah that's right - we're cheap!), but it can make life very difficult in a passenger jet. The difference, for example, between doing per-syd at >FL300 and being stuck down <FL300 can be very substantial in fuel, time, etc. Multiply that by hundreds of sectors per year, and all of a sudden your business acumen isn't looking so good after all.
...and the frequency with which the most fuel efficient planned levels happen to be non-rvsm? Well, so far in my experience, zero!
...and the frequency with which the most fuel efficient planned levels happen to be non-rvsm? Well, so far in my experience, zero!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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The RVSM certification is "apparently" on the way as part of GATM compliance. Bloody lockheed! Been finding some interesting information out from someone at my new workplace (in CBR) about that whole project. For example Lockheed crashing one of the prototype J's - whilst playing with a "fly by wire" herc. You heard anything about that?? I haven't before.
Actually, I found it [edit] 1993 L-100-20 Crash They were developing Fly by Wire for the J on this aircraft.
If you were stuck below 300 you weren't trying hard enough [when we had HSC
].
Anyway, regardless I hope OzJet pick up more destinations. Although I guess I couldn't use my Qantas Club or soon to be gold FF membership with them
Actually, I found it [edit] 1993 L-100-20 Crash They were developing Fly by Wire for the J on this aircraft.
If you were stuck below 300 you weren't trying hard enough [when we had HSC
]. Anyway, regardless I hope OzJet pick up more destinations. Although I guess I couldn't use my Qantas Club or soon to be gold FF membership with them
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Heard on the news in NZ today that OZjet were going to start flying to Perth in April, is this right? must be doing well to start expanding, and they must need new planes as this discussion has concluded that 737-200 arnt able to do perth runs.
Anymore info any1?
Anymore info any1?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Non Normal,
I hbave to agree with you about their web site - it's pretty crap. I don't however think that a crap web site is any indication of what an airline is like - just more an indication of how damn hard it is to find a good web designer !!!
As far as flying OZJET I wll be there as soon as they fly somewhere worth flying to
I hbave to agree with you about their web site - it's pretty crap. I don't however think that a crap web site is any indication of what an airline is like - just more an indication of how damn hard it is to find a good web designer !!!
As far as flying OZJET I wll be there as soon as they fly somewhere worth flying to
Join Date: May 2004
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Anecdotal report: A colleague did the SYD-MEL-SYD day trip with OzJet last week and lambasted me for telling him they use old aircraft. Looked totally brand-new to him, he said, and the service was way better than his expectation and beat all his QF J-class experiences into the proverbial cocked hat.
So if the non-LAME, non-pilot segment of the flying public can't even tell the difference between an old but refurbished, non-NG 737 and a brand-spanking new 737-800, whom are we kidding?
What they CAN tell the difference about is the service, and it's ahead by miles, apparently, according to him. And he's a senior manager in the customer service game, so his judgement ought to be good.
Might give them a try next time I have to travel to Australia's second-best city. Bugger the points, a few extra centimetres elbow and hip room would beat that.
VHCU
So if the non-LAME, non-pilot segment of the flying public can't even tell the difference between an old but refurbished, non-NG 737 and a brand-spanking new 737-800, whom are we kidding?
What they CAN tell the difference about is the service, and it's ahead by miles, apparently, according to him. And he's a senior manager in the customer service game, so his judgement ought to be good.
Might give them a try next time I have to travel to Australia's second-best city. Bugger the points, a few extra centimetres elbow and hip room would beat that.
VHCU
Originally Posted by VH-Cheer Up
.......So if the non-LAME, non-pilot segment of the flying public can't even tell the difference between an old but refurbished, non-NG 737 and a brand-spanking new 737-800, whom are we kidding?..........VHCU
I would take just about any odds that 75%+ passengers have no idea what they are flying in. My experience with people is that if it carries more than 150 passengers it must be a 'jumbo' less than 100 'just dangerous' and in between 'I don't know'
Reality is the travelling public has very little idea and doesn't care as long as it is 'perceived' to be safe and that can mean anything.
I have been involved in aviation for nearly 40 years and my family has been around it as well as it is also my 'hobby' and THEY could not areally tell you which a/c is which.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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http://businesssunday.ninemsn.com.au....aspx?id=86279
an interesting interview with Stoddard and crew on how ozjet is doing.
an interesting interview with Stoddard and crew on how ozjet is doing.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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As Scott Rochford correctly mentioned the Ozjet management team were adamant before launch that they would not lower fares below $325 and would not offer discount tickets.
The fact that they have lowered the fares to $249 and offered a 2 for 1 offer (extended now into Feb) is indicative of their business plan having flaws.
I wish them luck and hope to see them flying around long term, but if Stoddart made a handsome profit selling the Minardi Team in Europe, why doesnt he pay his former airline staff what is owed?
Many complaints abound about him in the Euro pages.
The fact that they have lowered the fares to $249 and offered a 2 for 1 offer (extended now into Feb) is indicative of their business plan having flaws.
I wish them luck and hope to see them flying around long term, but if Stoddart made a handsome profit selling the Minardi Team in Europe, why doesnt he pay his former airline staff what is owed?
Many complaints abound about him in the Euro pages.
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Ozjet Passenger Loads in Perspective
Date: 14/02/2006 (Tuesday)
Flights from Sydney
Flt # O7041 17:25
21 Passengers
Load Factor 35%
Flt # O7 049 19:25
19 Passengers
Load Factor 32%
Flight to Sydney
Flt # O7050 18:00
9 Passengers
Load Factor 15%
Draw your own conclusions.
Flights from Sydney
Flt # O7041 17:25
21 Passengers
Load Factor 35%
Flt # O7 049 19:25
19 Passengers
Load Factor 32%
Flight to Sydney
Flt # O7050 18:00
9 Passengers
Load Factor 15%
Draw your own conclusions.