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Old 18th Nov 2016, 15:06   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Plenty still here though. I arrived in 2003. About half a dozen or so still in Toronto ACC.
The current recruitment is for Toronto Tower only. The Experienced Controller Program will not be resurrected.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 18:24   #22 (permalink)
 
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I hear from everyone in air traffic I talk to (UK) that almost all units are short staffed, en route and tower. Where will all the replacements come from? Is the Nats college, or other atc colleges, churning out lots of trainees? Or is there some technology around the corner that will allow a big reduction in staffing levels? If not, then why aren't the airports more worried about this?
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 20:16   #23 (permalink)
 
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Simply NATS incompetence, running the gaff for CTC staff than ATCOs.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 21:47   #24 (permalink)
 
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I hear that a lot. But what's the end game? There must come a point when all their airports and centres are shutting from time to time due to lack of staff.
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 16:31   #25 (permalink)
 
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Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 18:43   #26 (permalink)
 
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Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.
All ok till you alienate your workforce to not even want to do AAVAs any more! and then the odd traffic regulation becomes shutting London approaches on an unprecedented basis. But hey, if that's what you guys call efficiency who are we to judge!
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 20:37   #27 (permalink)
 
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Regulation for staffing? Now there's a novel idea. Same flow rate for 7 on shift or 10, just the runway configuration is different and the line ups are longer.
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 20:42   #28 (permalink)
 
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Possibly Cossack, but NOT the same rate for one staff member instead of three...
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Old 22nd Nov 2016, 11:48   #29 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Squawk 7500 View Post
Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.
At smaller units, controllers are already rostered to work up to the SRATCOH maximum so AAVAs simply aren't possible without exceeding SRATCOH hours.
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Old 22nd Nov 2016, 18:13   #30 (permalink)
 
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Thinks - is Squawk 7500 management by any chance?

I never worked a single minute of overtime in my whole career and I would not on principle.
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Old 22nd Nov 2016, 19:00   #31 (permalink)
 
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If 7500 is not already in a management position then he is well on the way. From the year dot I have not worked at a unit where there was not always a last minute scrabbling around for new staff when somebody in management woke up to the fact that Joe Bloggs was retiring at the end of the month or somebody had gone long term sick. Nobody seems to have worked out that even if you manage to hire an experienced controller it's going to be at LEAST 6 months before they are going to fill the position. I don't why I am surprised, the whole country is run by a complete bunch of amateurs
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Old 22nd Nov 2016, 21:02   #32 (permalink)
 
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If 7500 is not already in a management position then he is well on the way. From the year dot I have not worked at a unit where there was not always a last minute scrabbling around for new staff when somebody in management woke up to the fact that Joe Bloggs was retiring at the end of the month or somebody had gone long term sick. Nobody seems to have worked out that even if you manage to hire an experienced controller it's going to be at LEAST 6 months before they are going to fill the position. I don't why I am surprised, the whole country is run by a complete bunch of amateurs
Yeah look at Farnborough; I retired 8 years ago and they still haven't trained my replacement(s), still operating bandboxed and short of staff!
(You all thought I was joking when I said it would take 3 controllers to replace me didn't you)
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 01:33   #33 (permalink)
 
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@chevron,
How than you explain that airport still works? ( not to correlate date where we will see that traffic increased in last 8 years since you retired)
And it will exactly explain how it works worldwide.
And what is more important traffic is more safe than 8 years ago ( otherwise there wouldn't have been increase)
Thing, that affraids me, is that even lost of lives is not enough to change. To quote friend of mine " System will not allow attacks on itself"
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 08:36   #34 (permalink)
 
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I recently went to a local motor sport event and there was 5 other fellow NATS/Aberdeen retirees there including an ex GM.Never seen such a happy bunch.

NATS and the Unions over the last 20 plus years have stripped away at staff numbers,Pension changing to DC,Increased BS generally,and pay regrading in the downwards direction at the lower band units.Also plugging the shortfall with AVAAs which is a sticking plaster on a gunshot wound.
Good luck NATS in recruiting the next generation of skilled controllers that have propped up the fading empire.
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 10:32   #35 (permalink)
 
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I'm not management!! Just forgot to add some of these at the end of my last post
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 10:39   #36 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by SINGAPURCANAC View Post
@chevron,
How than you explain that airport still works? ( not to correlate date where we will see that traffic increased in last 8 years since you retired)
And it will exactly explain how it works worldwide.
And what is more important traffic is more safe than 8 years ago ( otherwise there wouldn't have been increase)
Thing, that affraids me, is that even lost of lives is not enough to change. To quote friend of mine " System will not allow attacks on itself"
The airport still works because the staff which are left pull their fingers out & make it work - because they are enthusiasts , extremely capable & hard working. But, none of this owes anything to the management, who really ought to get what they truly deserve !
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 13:00   #37 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by kcockayne View Post
The airport still works because the staff which are left pull their fingers out & make it work - because they are enthusiasts , extremely capable & hard working. But, none of this owes anything to the management, who really ought to get what they truly deserve !
And don't forget they only have Class G airspace; the only 'protection' is a unique to the UK 'aerodrome traffic zone' of 2.5 nm radius up to 2000ft aal and all vectoring is done outside this.
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 14:29   #38 (permalink)

 
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7500,

It's ok, maybe it will take 5 people to replace you when you retire?
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 20:56   #39 (permalink)
 
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You can add Jersey & Hawarden to that list...
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 21:06   #40 (permalink)
 
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Vectoring in Class G

Chevvron,

NPA 2016-09 'Requirements for Air Traffic Services' may force a change regarding Commercial Air Transport and vectoring in Class G...... The UK will need an altMoc........

Last edited by satdja; 23rd Nov 2016 at 21:06. Reason: Spelling!
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