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Old 15th Dec 2012, 11:34   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
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NAT HF Phraseology

Does anyone have a guidance document like CAP 413 on what should be said to HF radio operators on initial check etc.

Thereís a bit of guidance in the NAT Doc 007. Position reports etc.

I was flying the other day, a couple of carriers checked in with Gander Radio and threw a few buzzwords at the operator, CPDLC, Shanwick next, request frequencies etc. On both occasions the operator came back quite annoyed requesting call sign only. Thatís fair enough, but whereís this written? Iíve asked colleagues and most arenít clear on it either and I canít find any references on the net.

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Old 19th Dec 2012, 07:30   #2 (permalink)
 
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Its not that difficult but you need to be clear on which boxes you are ticking.
Below is a summary of some of the procedures (i really can't be bothered citing all the authorities).

This,for example,eastbound:
On first contact with all CPDLC facilities, (on either VHF or HF), the CPDLC
suffix must be added to the flight callsign e.g. Montreal Centre Barnburner123
CPDLC.

If entering another Oceanic CTA/FIR this must be stated:
e.g. Gander Radio,Barnburner123 CPDLC, Shanwick next, SELCAL ABDC.
Iceland - If the next CTA/FIR is domestic airspace, the NAT exit point/domestic entry point must be stated:
e.g. Iceland Radio, Barnburner123, CPDLC, exit DARUB.

Take a look at ICAO NAT Doc 007

Last edited by cribble; 19th Dec 2012 at 07:52.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:44   #3 (permalink)
 
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Whatever HF operator over the atlantic you are talking to, try call sign & frequency first, and you might ie add "position" if you intend to do a position report, but nothing more than that. This gives the operator time to switch to the correct frequency and prepare for you. He's not a controller, he's an operator monitoring multiple frequencies at the same time.

Once you get the get the "go ahead" from him/her you can throw in whatever you want to do/know. You will notice that on many occasions he already knows what you're after, and throw you some freq's and a selcal check without you having to ask for it. Things like CPDLC you do need to add though, because that' something they cannot know (as far as I've been told)

Last edited by BraceBrace; 19th Dec 2012 at 13:48.
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Old 20th Jul 2016, 16:08   #4 (permalink)
 
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I'm trying to get to grips with the RT that should be used when crossing the Atlantic.
I can find the first communication from Cribble below in the GOLD document but I can't find reference to the exit point.

If entering another Oceanic CTA/FIR this must be stated:
e.g. Gander Radio,Barnburner123 CPDLC, Shanwick next, SELCAL ABDC.
Iceland - If the next CTA/FIR is domestic airspace, the NAT exit point/domestic entry point must be stated:
e.g. Iceland Radio, Barnburner123, CPDLC, exit DARUB.


In the GOLD Doc Appendix E, E.7.3.1.1.5, d) it says to "state the last two fixes in the cleared route of flight if operating outside the organised track system".

The example they give is
" GANDER RADIO, AIRLINE 123 C-P-D-L-C, SCROD VALIE, REQUEST SELCAL CHECK DMCS.

Is this what guys do in practice? I'm assuming the "the cleared route of flight" is the Oceanic clearance, is that right? Otherwise if you were flying New York to Dubai (outside the organised track system, as we might be) would you really include your last two fixes in the UAE?

Any guidance, clarification or help would be welcome
Thanks
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 20:12   #5 (permalink)


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The reason the Gander operator was 'annoyed' in post 1 is that CPDLC is no longer required. Refer NavCanada AIC 30/15 replicated by UK and Iceland. The GOLD will be revised to include these changes. In addition there is a Gander NOTAM to say they now assign eastbound 30deg W freqs by CPDLC.

The Iceland AIC differs slightly to Canada:

This eliminates the RT requirements for data link equipped aircraft to communicate "Controller Pilot Data Link Communications (CPDLC)", next Control Area (CTA) / Flight Information Region (FIR), Track and "SELCAL code".

All we need to do now is eliminate HF SELCAL checks, which achieve absolutely nothing.
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