¿Is it the end of the $panish dream?

[RobertSC]

Today, the conditions of the Air Traffic Control in Spain have been modified by law, not by negotiations. The board of ministers, ministers council or whatever is called has change radically the way it was working AENA.

Spanish Official Document

It says that the average gross income was in 2007: 304.874 €, which is 210k euros more than te average salary in 1999 after applying the CPI of 1999 to 2007.

The salaries will be reduced by more than a 40%, putting spain in the average of the EU, in words of the Minister Jose Blanco.

And the hours of work will be now 1750, instead of 1200. So, no more extra duties probably needed. (which is said to be more than half of the salary of the controllers) In fact, the 900k € controller which is always being remided had 700k in extra duties and the rest was the basic salary. So the reduction will be very very hard.

The average basic salary for the controllers (no extraduties) in words of the Controller Union (USCA) speaker (it is a radio interview in Spanish) is 130k € gross, will that be the new average salary now?


Let's see what happens in the following days.

[pamplinas]

Hi,

I'm a spanish atc and I'm still stunned with the government action. Of course it is clearly an ilegal line of action, since there was no labor conflict nor strike threat. This law violates all agreements, spanish labour law and even the Constitution. They justify this action on the general interest and on the difficulty they found in negotiations around the overtime agreements.

As you should probably know by now, we are severely understaffed, and since our worktime is 1200h/year (not very different from other countries, isn't it?), our ANSP relies in paying expensive overtime hours to meet the increasing traffic demand. This agreements made our salaries rocket, just as our working hours did (up to 1800 per year or even more).

They decided recently our salaries were causing navigation fees to rise and provoking finantial trouble to our company. The latter hard to believe, since navigation deficit was less than are 300millon€ this year and AENA's dept rises well above 13.000million€. So they called upon us in order to negociate a new agreement that should severely cut costs. Negotiations were running, although it soon came clear AENA was aiming far higher (they sought to eliminate most of our labor achivements, not just overtime costs) and that they already had a hidden agenda.

Things came clear last tuesday when AENA broke negotiatios suddenly. Our union declared our firm intention to keep doors open to further talks and our clear commitment to avoid any action against traffic flow (especially regarding incoming easter holidays). AENA accused us of blocking negotiations with unreasonable demands and having bad faith in the whole process.

On friday, the government publishes urgently this decree-law: a law enacted by the government due to urgent needs that, although firm and applicable from the begining, must pass through parlliament in a month or so.

This law wipes out most of our labor rights, increasing our worktime (1750h, mandatory), reducing salary, denying retirements for the next 3 years...
It also introduces the possibility of new ANSP offering TWR control, AFIS, new ways of disciplinary action, recruitment of new atcos at AENA's single choice...

I really think that the Government's bad faith in this matter is clear. Such law cannot be prepared in just two days. They definitively had no intention to negotiate anything at all.

In the meantime, the media campaign is runnig hard. Many people praise this hard-hand politics being used against such overpaid and arrogant workers. Scareingly, it reminds me of some actions taken recently by Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Government popularity may rise a bit, this controversy will work well as a distraction for a while, but in the meantime our country has several acute problems waiting for direct action (have any of you read any recent economic news about Spain?).

There are also many other dirty deeds being used by the government against us. USCA's web has been seriously atacked by hackers (not amateurs, precisely), and we really suspect many conversations of union leaders are being monitored.

Fortunately, spanish trade unions have hit the roof with this news. They fear this kind of ilegal action could be used against any workers considered a threat to the general interest (whatever the government decides it is).

USCA has announced legal action and is also studying further actions.

I would personally recomend the rest of atco unions in Europe to stay alert and study our case. Next one could be anyone.

[killua]

Just wondering, what will be spanish ATC-s next course of action?

[Data Dad]

Pamplinas,

I am completely taken aback by your Governments actions and totally disagree with those actions.

However, you wrote:

As you should probably know by now, we are severely understaffed, and since our worktime is 1200h/year (not very different from other countries, isn't it?),

I work in the UK for the largest ATC provider here - NATS. ATCO's in NATS work to one of two 'working times' either 1820 hours per year - which excludes meal breaks or 2080 hours which includes meal breaks. The unit at which you work decides which of the two applies. Both those figures btw, are before annual leave entitlements are taken, and equate to either a 35hr or 40hr week.

So 1200hrs is not at all comparable to the UK ATCO.

DD

[LH2]

For those interested on a bit of background on this issue, I have posted a brief critique of a well-read Times article in another post. Any Spanish ATCOs or anyone else knowledgeable out there are welcome to correct any factual errors I may have made.

Now, from my personal point of view as a pilot who occasionally flies in Spanish airspace, I would have no beef with AENA controllers being paid whatever if they were worth it. As it stands however, they consistently manage to pull off the worst controlling this side of the Med, to say the least.

From the very limited sample of Spanish controllers I've met in social or flying settings, it does not reassure me that they're capable of kicking up such as stink when their bottom line is involved, while safety issues (such as controller training) are met with complete passivity. With a few notable exceptions (IME found mostly in the South, at the likes of LEZL, LEMG, LEJR, ...and LXGB ), I don't think these people should be working in a position of responsibility at all in any industry, let alone earning a high salary.

In the past when I have had an issue with controllers in Spain I've dealt with it by means of a telephone conversation with the tower involved and/or a chat with the relevant people at operations, on the advice of local pilots who tell me that filing occurrence reports doesn't get you anywhere. I am thinking, however, that such reports may fall on more sympathetic ears these days, so from now on I will start sending those every time I feel safety has been compromised... and I'll Cc them to the Infrastructure Minister just for good measure.

In other words, I can hardly fault the Spanish government for not feeling they're getting their money's worth out of AENA controllers. Just my opinion, you're welcome to disagree

[p_perez]

New ATC situation in Spain

Hi there!

I´m an Spanish ATCO currently working in one of the 5 ACC of our ATC network. Hope you don´t mind ifI keep my name concealed: don´t want to be sent to another city by force, or even risk been fired by my company.

This is now possible due to the decree-law published by our goverment yesterday friday. I thought that I could provide more information about our new working situation. I´ll just try to be straight, without adding my opinion. I´ll leave that to you.

Since yesterday we have to work 1750 a year, before it was 1200. Also, during our morning or evening services, our mandatory rest-time gets reduced from 33% to 25%, and in the nocturnal services from 50% to 33%. It means that not only we get a 550 hour increase every year, also the % of actual working time is been increased. We con be obliged to work overtime up to 80 hours more at the request of our company officials. One of my TWR colleagues told me this morning that in his case all this means he will have to work 22-23 days in one month, more than any Spanishd employee.

We now can´t discuss any direct order from the non-ATCO personel from AENA regarding procedures, open sectors or runways, LVP, sector capacity, etc ..., under the penalty of been punished (sent to another city or fired, as I already said). This didn´t start yesterday: in last december for example, an airport in the East of Spain remained open without a single instrument for app: ILS, the 2 VOR´s, all U/S. AENA bosses knew this since 12:00, and didn´t update the NOTAM UNTIL 20:00. I´ve heard that my colleagues at the TACC and TWR responsible for the app had a lot of "fun" that day.

AENA will let us know or schedules 10 days before, not the old 90 days before we had until now, and even so, they can change those schedules the day before as they wish: for example, if I have to work tomorrow evening from 15:00 to 22:00, I can receive a call from AENA to tell me to go to work from 08:00 to 15:00. Mandatory.

Retirement has been suspended for the next 3 years: people over 52 could retire if they had already worked for more than 30 yrs. Now that is not possible: we call it "el corralito", like in Argentina, when the goverment didn´t allow you to take your money from banks.

[radarman]

If this is true, it's an absolutely appalling situation. The sort of thing that I imagined only went on in the darkest of third world countries. I think most of us have been astounded at the level of Spanish controllers' salaries, but that is not the fault of the controllers. It sounds as though the government is doing what governments (in fact all management) do best - making a b@lls up and then blaming and punishing others as a smoke screen to hide its own incompetence. Don't you just love politicians!

Strangely though, I've just been coordinating traffic with a colleague at LECS and he seems full of good cheer.

[LH2]

If this is true

Aye, there is the rub. For example:

Since yesterday we have to work 1750 a year

And how many hours were worked, on average, last year per controller? I gather it's not far from that (probably slightly more)--the difference being that now you will not get the overtime rate for those extra hours which you, on average, have been working anyway (and thus one hopes, proving that you were confident you could do so within the rules and without affecting safety).

So you're guaranteed all of an almost 35hr week in a country with ~20% unemployment rate and you're complaining?

radarman,

I think most of us have been astounded at the level of Spanish controllers' salaries, but that is not the fault of the controllers.

From what I've heard that is wide open to debate. For example, what is, and what has historically been the position of the controller's union regarding workforce expansion?

The problem is that in Spain this is a job which attracts a certain type of person, and most definitely not the one who goes into it for the love of aviation.

As I said, give that kind of money to French, British, German, Croatian, or even Italian controllers and I won't say a word. It's the cost/value ratio that bothers me, and the hypocrisy of throwing such a tantrum when it comes to their salaries while as a group they never did anything to improve the safety or the efficiency of the astonishingly poor service they provide.

Finally, as I understand it, the reason behind the swift action by the Spanish government was to prevent the controllers from carrying out their threats of going on strike over the Easter holidays. Doing so in a broke country which has tourism as one of its main sources of income would be frankly irresponsible (now one can say it's not the controllers fault that their country is in the gutter, but two wrongs don't make a right, etc.)

No wonder some of them take to advertising their "plight" on a British forum. Spanish public opinion is, shall we say, less than receptive

No skin off my nose, but I thought I would give a bit of perspective.

[PeltonLevel]

Seems to me that it was cp management that got AENA into its present position and it seems to be cp management trying to get out of it!

I can't imagine why NATS had its unconsummated love affair with them a couple of years ago!

[pamplinas]

Data Dad,

taken from Eurocontrol ACE Benchmark report 2007:

ATCO hours on duty (avarage per year)
AENA 1800
NATS 1434
DFS 1245
DSNA 1328

However I guess things may have change, or maybe you were not considering operational time hours only.

LH2,

I will not take this thread to another discusion about spanish ATC's value. We all now how it would end up.
Anyway, I'd like to remark that our Union has constantly demanded AENA to recruit new atcos for the last 10 years repeatedly. There's clear evidence in every single minute of our meetings with AENA, who has broken many agreements on the subject.
Of course spanish public opinion is far away from our side, but, I must say, I don't consider this forum represents precisely an easy audience. Please don't take it as an offence.

[p_perez]

Hey there, LH2:

just wondering, did any of my colleagues happen to steal a girlfriend from you in the past? Seriously now, I think some kind of negative bias can be detected in your writting, and there must be some reason for it, no?

Well, it looks like if you should start by reading any of the Performance Reports from EUROCONTROL. There are not that manuy drawings as in a comic book, but if you give it a try, I´m sure even you´ll get to something ...


As you can see from the data from my colleague, the number of hrs/yr in Spain are far more higher than in the rest of the main european ATC service providers. For your knowledge, in the Spanish amount of hrs. training is not included; the french include more than 100 hrs. of training, in the rest I´m not sure so I wont say anything. The 1800 hrs of 2007 in Spain were not mandatory, only 1200, the rest were overtime and not everyone worked them (I didn´t). Now we will have to work 1750 hrs mandatory, and that is insane if you consider safety.

Finally, as I understand it, the reason behind the swift action by the Spanish government was to prevent the controllers from carrying out their threats of going on strike over the Easter holidays.

Well, here you are not well informed (and this is only an euphemism). We were not on strike, as we have never been on strike since 1986. In fact, we had expressed our intention to cooperate with AENA so that neither companies nor customers suffer any problem with their Eastern holydays. There was an agreement valid until march 30th by which Spanish controllers secured overtime hours necessary to attend the rise in the demand of air traffic. So there was enough time to achieve a new agreement (almost 2 months), and the Spanish control union USCA had already presented plans for a 30% reduction in the salaries. But there was never any intention on the side of AENA nor the Spanish goverment to reach a deal good enough for both sides. The decree-law published last friday 5th is abusive, anticonstitutional, and violates the current agreement between AENA and its controllers, as well as the Spanish Workers´Statute. And the Spanish goverment knows this, but they also know that Justice in Spain is very slow, and very influenceable. In the time we would need to prove the unfairness of this decree-law they are going to rip AENA into small pieces and sell it as they wish and fits their interest.

From what I've heard that is wide open to debate. For example, what is, and what has historically been the position of the controller's union regarding workforce expansion?

There you go, once again, wonder were you get your "information" (again, another euphemism) from ...
USCA has been demanding new controllers from AENA for the past 10 years. We are now almost 2400, but only a bit less than 1800 operational, the rest is on office duties. In comparison, France has 4000 operational controllers. AENA has prefered to pay expensive overtime instead of selecting, training and hiring new controllers (from the economic point of view for the company, it was much cheaper).

... in a country with ~20% unemployment rate ...

I supose you agree with me it would have been better to have hired more controllers in the past, don´t you?

... as a group they never did anything to improve the safety or the efficiency of the astonishingly poor service they provide.

No problem here, coming from someone like you, I wont take this personal.


BTW, they haven´t started yet distributing yellow stars among us, but when they do so, I´ll let you know, maybe you would like to lend a hand. It must be so fun!


Enjoy!

[M609]

The Spanish goverment has clearly handled this poorly, not doubt about that.
Smells of banana republic style justice all the way.

But: Someone asked for and got the salaries you guys have enjoyed over the last years. (The same union that has refused to inform IFATCA about the level of pay in Spain repeatedly perhaps?)

Hate to break it to you guys, but understaffing is a problem all over Europe, but no one has managed to squeeze that much cash from their ANSP.

You had a VERY sweet deal....sad that the goverment could not find a more civilized way to sort out the situation.

[onetrack]

Now we will have to work 1750 hrs mandatory, and that is insane if you consider safety

Why is 1750 hrs of work a year, insane?? Do not most people with a job work 2000 hrs a year? Aren't many jobs stressful? - and do not many people have the protection of lives, involved as part of their jobs?

Is there something I have missed here? - that ATC people cannot work more than 1200 hrs a year, because there is such a high stress level, and responsibility, that people might die, if they work longer hours?

Yet - payment of overtime moneys, after 1200 hrs of work annually, reduces that stress level and increases safety, to the point that ATC staff can then work 1750 hrs safely??

The argument is hollow - the Spanish Govt has taken corrective action - but the problem lies in allowing the Spanish ATC union, excessive leeway, to become greedy beyond belief.
No-one with a shred of commonsense would reject modest wage increases, in line with other industries, the countries CPI, and other OECD nations equivalents - but it seems to me, that the Spanish ATC union thought they deserved exceptional treatment.
Welcome to the real world, where 98% of people have to survive on an average, or perhaps a slightly-above-average wage.

[criss]

Exactly. By this logic, one could limit the yearly schedule to 100hrs, then making 1750 would make for some salary!

If you're able to do 1800 while your schedule is 1200, then clearly your schedule is too low, or you allow too much overtime (in this case, by your logic, decreasing safety). We're doing ~1700 per year, but we're allowed only 150 overtime (usually increased to 200-250 around September to meet staffing needs).

[p_perez]

A simple question for all of those who argue that they have similar or even worse working conditions than ours now in Spain:

where those conditions negotiated or imposed?

Ours where imposed by a new and exclusive decree-law, while we were still negotiating with AENA.

Do you agree with this procedure? Would you accept it in the future?

If the answer is "yes", maybe you could consider moving to Cuba or Venezuela ...

[p_perez]

IFATCA

Hello!

Just an update, first for M609:

But: Someone asked for and got the salaries you guys have enjoyed over the last years. (The same union that has refused to inform IFATCA about the level of pay in Spain repeatedly perhaps?)

Sorry but I didn´t know USCA had any obligation to inform or give personal data to anybody, at least in Spain that´s illegal. Could you please post the regulation that makes it mandatory for my union to give my or anyone´s personal data to IFATCA?

And now I mention IFATCA, here is a press release from them (not yet in their webpage www.ifatca.org , guess they will upload it tomorrow monday):



06th February 2010

___________________________________________
_______________ Press Release _____________

European Union Presidency Spain Downgrades National Air Traffic Control System

IFATCA questions the Royal Decree issued by the Spanish Government and believes that this will not make up for the past deficiencies of AENA.

The Royal Decree has merely confirmed that the Air Traffic Control system in Spain, as is the case within much of Europe, relies upon individual Air Traffic Controllers working overtime to prop up the ATC system. Marc Baumgartner, IFATCA President, stated that the measures imposed by this decree will do nothing to provide a long term solution to this critical shortage of controllers.

This decree punishes Air Traffic Controllers for the past economic mismanagement of AENA.

Forcing any specialists in a safety critical field to work in such a climate of fear and intimidation that this decree creates is detrimental to the safety of the ATC system.

IFATCA calls upon the Spanish Government to ensure that all actions taken under this decree are in full accordance with ICAO and EU standards and requirements. They shall be subject to comprehensive safety assessments and not further stress the already overstretched ATC system.

In the interest of SAFETY of the traveling public in Spain, IFATCA, as the global voice of Air Traffic Controllers, calls upon the Spanish government to exercise restraint, caution and due consideration before enacting these extraordinary provisions. AENA must return to responsible and reasonable negotiations with its air traffic controllers, to determine a sustainable way to overcome the critical shortage of ATCOs.

Cheers!

[saintex2002]

Pamplinas y p-perez, estoy con vosotros, los que no entienden lo que se esta dibujando...o son trolls o gente del otro lado o " controlatas mal informatas " ...y no hay que perder mas tiempo para explicarles la guerra en la cual estan ellos mismos...
Espero de verdad que vais a superar esta guerra...
Pienso yo que estamos, todos los controladores europeos, llegando al momento de definir otra forma de ofrecer nuestro saber hacer en materia de control de trafico aéreo...y si os quedáis asi hasta final de Marzo, llamando AENA a volver a sentarse en la mesa para firmar un convenio que os agradece...muy bien...sino habra que pensar en un otro plan que suporto yo...
Suerte a todos...

[alwaysmovin]

I wonder if these are MOL figures.....ie...completely made up to encourage public distain ......or actual figures...ie.....what the Atco actually earns and not the cost of that Atco to the company in question!!

Having watched with interest the Irish story last month and being in a position to know exactly what an Irish Atco earns I am aware of the ridiculous lies that are told by some.....(in Ireland that being Mr ignorant O'Leary.. no doubt supported by his friends in the IAA) to get public support for a witch hunt. Everyone knows times are tough but why should controllers be constantly singled out.......I never hear controller salaries or ANSP's profits being even mentioned when the traffic levels are peak and ATCOS are working max loads all day long......Screams double standards to me.

Why should Atcos be constantly condemned for what in effect is the failure of ANSP to staff correctly.....if the ANSP does not train and provide staff then someone has to fill that gap....if they don't there will be the same people on here bitching and moaning about delays due to lack of personnel who are bitching and moaning about the salary of the controllers in question who have worked the overtime to ensure the delays do not occur .
If these reports are indeed correct then it seems in the case of Spain this is extreme and many earned exceptional pay to provide this service.... ..HOWEVER if the company had allowed this to go on for years and were happy up till now to not rectify the problem then why should the controllers be blamed........would any of you turn down the opportunity to make extra money....I don't think so

It is also unfair to tar all the controllers with the same brush.....I'm sure there are many who did not do as much overtime if any at all and they have now had their normal pay and conditions radically change through no fault of their own.....

So give the guys a break...if you want to put the blame on anyone blame AENA....I'm sure their managers earn considerable amounts of money to manage the company and it seems they haven't done that job at all......... I haven't seen any posts on here by discussing their salaries and ability to do their jobs!!!

[saintex2002]

Alwaysmovin...
+ one...

[deci]

+ 2..

suerte to spanish collegues