NATS Pensions (Split from Pay 2009 thread)

[Hooligan Bill]

Smart Pensions. Cable and Wireless run such a scheme and I have found the following link to the company handbook that explains it.

http://www.freedom.cw.com/pdf/Smart_Booklet.pdf

Page 5 is the interesting one, especially part for people on the notional 50 grand a year salary. £20 a year for the massive savings the company are making does not seem a lot.

As for benefits on retirement, in the C&W scheme there is no change, it quite clearly states on page 8 that nothing will change as the final salary used to calculate the pension will be based on the "notional" final salary.

As long as it is negotiated that benefits are based on notional salary the only loser is the taxman. However Where we do lose out though is when we have pay rises of greater than RPI + 0.5%, in which case your actually salary becomes higher than the notional salary.

[jobsfortheboys]

Just thought I would get the ball rolling on this small issue.

My two penny worth is that this is pretty much a done deal, If the NTUS branch are reccommending this then there will be insufficient fight in the membership to strike towards any improved acheiveable goal.

The deal stinks to me but Prospect will undoubtedly get the 51% required and we will move into an unsure future where there will be further attempts to undermine and close the top tier fund.

[man friday]

sold down the river by a union thats nothing more than a branch of management.

one nats one pension BOLLOCKS!

[throw a dyce]

Well I would have thought that the statement on this would have mentioned the HMRC opt in/out rules on Smart.
Either they are trying to cover it up by not mentioning it....possible,
or they don't understand Smart,and ain't so smart.....possible,
or HMRC are talking rubbish....errr don't think so.

The new pension for joiners after 2009 was always on the cards.Will the membership go the same way on that as the Banding and Atco2/3 split.Probably because it's the doesn't affect me thing.Will the retirement bulge get any bigger.Certainly because no one in their right minds over 50,soon to be 55 should be subjecting themselves to this stressful job,with an employer/union nibbling away at the only decent thing left..the pension.

[Me Me Me Me]

I'm baffled by the level of interest in the SMART pension bit.... It's **** all. They are closing our pension scheme and all people want to talk about is the few pence National Insurance?!?!

SMART pension will not have any negative impact on anyone. Forget it. It'll save you a few pennies but nothing else meaningful will change. At all.

[Medway Control]

me me me me

who cares about smart pensions!! least of our worries... One nats, one pension...
And as for the person who said 'The deal stinks to me but Prospect will undoubtedly get the 51% required ', well I really hope that 51% of my colleagues can look though this so called deal that prospect have said is the only option and give them a big fat resounding 'no' vote, when the push comes to shove...

Anyone wanna join me by the security station?? I'll even provide 180 tea bags to keep us warm, cos the way these 'negotiations' are going, if prospect have their way, 180 teabags will be worth more than my pension!

The question is not whether to strike, its what to chant when we're out there...

[Air.Farce.1]

Just heard Swanwick has gone down !!.

Any way the onenatsonepension cached link below is interesting since the current onenats2pensions link has gone down in sympathy with Swanwick

Prospect ATCO Branch Conference: Leading the Way, Shaping the Future

"Our pension

• We have one of best defined benefit schemes in UK

• We agree

• The scheme is currently in good financial health and is adequately funded

• We agree, currently and we wish to keep it that way"

[BAND4ALL]

[man friday]

thanks band4all, you,ve got me chucklin with that!

[ayrprox]

just incase the powder thats been being kept dry has been blown away, i have a plan B:

[Air.Farce.1]

Plan C

[MrJones]

Instant Karma.

[Caesartheboogeyman]

yesterdays computer glitch was reported as only lasting one hour yet look at the delays and cancellations. If ever there was proof of how working to rule or strike action would effect operations in nats that was it!!
The media were loving the chance ot go to heathrow and take footage of parked planes. lets make them do it again. VOTE NO to the pension offer.
VOTE YES to some strike action.
Don't step on my shoes barron, you will get a bloody nose.

[Standard Noise]

During discussions at work yesterday, someone told me that something has to be done about the pension and then tried to convince me that the recently announced ideas were a way forward. A lot of it was a carefully trodden line but when I agreed that yes, something has to be done to keep the pension fund viable, but that the first avenue to explore should be NATS putting in everything they failed to pay in during the 'pension holiday' plus any amount that would have accrued from those contributions had the 'pension holiday' not taken place, there was no answer available. Then there was talk of NATS not being able to fund the pension and going bust and us all working for another provider who won't have a good scheme to offer us.

I think we know where this is going - if they don't tow the line, scare'em into it!

[Air.Farce.1]

Sounds like the reps have been groomed to convince us during their "working together" sessions, no doubt using the current Global financial crisis to strengthen managements case and frighten us by weakening our resolve. Dont listen to them, use the ballott

[eglnyt]

Groomed or better informed ? Personally I won't be making up my mind which way to vote until after the briefings when I've asked some questions of those advocating a Yes vote. In the interest of fairness perhaps those advocating a No vote can provide some answers to the other questions I have to ask

If NATS putting back the money from its pension holiday really is the answer exactly where is it going to get that money from ?

Even if the regulator allowed pension passthrough do you really think the airlines could afford it ? What would be the effect on the industry of a 30% increase in fees ?

If there is a strike how long would NATS remain solvent before it goes into Aviation Administration ?

I accept that Band 5 ATCOs will probably survive administration but what about NSL staff, ATSAs, ATCO trainees and non ATCOs ?

[landedoutagain]

What about Scottish and Manchester too (Band 4....)

[Air.Farce.1]

If there is a strike how long would NATS remain solvent before it goes into Aviation Administration

Legal Status and Ownership

NATS Holdings Ltd is the holding company for NATS Group. It owns NATS Ltd, which in turn owns two operating subsidiaries: NATS (En-Route) plc (NERL) and NATS (Services) Ltd (NSL). The Airline Group Ltd, a consortium of seven airlines, has the majority of voting rights and 41.9% of the shares of NATS Holdings Ltd. The Secretary of State for Transport owns 48.9%, BAA plc 4.2%; and NATS Employee Sharetrust Ltd 5%.

The Government is the major shareholder (48.9%) and NATS cannot go into aviation administration. There is a good reason why they still part own it... because NATS is essential to the UK both economically and from a safety aspect, thus NATS will not be allowed to go into administration -even if it could.

There is a an underlying trend now and a wish for re-Nationalistion of industries (Northern Rock and now as I type ! Bradford and Bingley) which previously were in the private sector, and since NATS is only 51.1% private dont rule out going full circle to where we were before.
If I recall things were much better for the staff then.

In the current USA economic climate anything could happen, especially when there is a dramatic downturn in the aviation industry (trans-Atlantic especially, as this is NATS biggest earner) which always was and always will be volatile, nothing new here.

[Arthur Scargill]

I’m very disappointed with the union for recommending the new pension proposals. As far as I’m aware the members did not request that the union entered into talks with management regarding pensions.
Since much of the information has been kept from the public eye due to confidentiality agreements only a few individuals have been privy to the full details. It seems these people have had there minds changed (remember one nats one pension??) and their opinions are set to shape future union policy. My concern is that many union members will go along with whatever is recommended by their union (which after all is supposed to have members best interests at heart.)

We have gone from one nats one pension to recommending a two tier pension AND worsening the terms of our current pension.
The argument seems to be “you’d better accept the new deal or nats will go bust and you’ll all lose you jobs and pension”
Yes the pension will cost nats lots of money – but as management are happy to tell everyone we’ve made a profit for the last 5 years so I’m sure we’ve got a few quid lying about. Plus since the UK government owns a large share of us and has a legal responsibility to provide ATC for the UK are they really likely to let us go bust?

Our pensions are legally protected – if we do nothing the trustees will force nats to pay sufficient contributions. I for one would be happy to let them do so.

[Hial Flyer]

I agree. Our union are spineless. Year after year they get further into managements pockets.

If we vote yes for these changes to our pension management know that they will get away with anything else they wish to throw at us.

Hopefully the workforce will have the conviction to stand up to management and when the vote comes up they give it an overwhelming NO.