Is it worth Microlighting?

[SpeedBird22]

Hello,

After 3 years of moaning and whinging I am finally free of my degree and determined to get on with some flying (the last time I did so was over a year and a half ago).

However, I'm not trotting off to get a FI rating or go for airline sponsorship, but merely do some cheap casual flying while I chose which airway of life I want to amble down.

Sooooooooo, my attention has been drawn to Microlighting and was wondering if anyone has any advice as to whether I should go for that or stick with PA28's and the like. I've already flown 40hrs in a PA28 but just found it too pricy to keep going and finish the PPL.

Enstone is nice and close so it seems to be an attractive option.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your comments please. Is Microlighting in general worthwhile?

Tara for now.

BirdSeed22

[Justiciar]

Worthwhile to who? If you fancy doing it then go for it:} Life's too short to worry about things like this. Each to his own. Personally its not my thing and I enjoy flying PA28s etc. but its very much a personal choice. Money is always a factor - if conventional aircraft are too costly then microlighting is a way to go. I don't see any problem at all. As you say, its all about what you want to achieve.

[gijoe]

I tried microlights for the first time last month after some 5 years of SEP stuff. I did it purely out of curiosity and to see if 'it was getting back to real flying' as some colleagues has claimed.

....It scared me witless....

Sitting on a collection of scaffolding poles held together by bungies with a bit of cellophane to keep the bugs out is not an experience I shall be repeating. The rotate speed is slow - 50 knots - and the flare action can only be described as different !!

Good fun for those that love it and I can see how people who have not done any other flying enjoy it but it's not for me. As an aside I've got a copy of the Microlight Pilots Handbook for sale as I shall never be one !! Yours for £10 (RRP £20) PM me if interested.

P.S Mods please do not flame as post illustrates point relavent to aviation and is not a blantant ad..please...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well I fly a PA28 and a flexwing, and love them both.

If you want cheap flying, and the opportunity to own your own 2-seater for £3k, trailer it away on holiday with you and fly into the shortest strips going it is the way ahead. If you want to travel long distances in comfort with a fair bit of baggage, forget it.

Go and fly with Geoff Weighell's school at Enstone, he's a nice chap with about 5000 hours in flexwings - at least give him a chance to try and convert you for a couple of hours. (And yes, you'll almost certainly be frightened of it on your first sortie, I certainly was).

And both are infinitely more fun than a C152 - at least in my opinion.

One health warning - learning on microlights is comparatively expensive. It's once you've qualified that you get the real cost benefits - I reckon on my flexwing costing around £25/hr all-in.

G

[DFC]

Speedbird22,

Your statement seems to indicate that you don't yet hold a PPL.

If that is the case then without doubt, Microlight flying is the way to go.

I say that because;

a) Modern 3 axis microlights are in every way the same as what people term "conventional" aircraft except that they fall within the 450Kg MTOW category, and out perform most similar conventional aircraft.

b) Having completed your microlight training, you will get a NPPL aith a microlight rating. There is a clear system of upgrading all the way from here to JAA ATPL.

c) At about £2500 or less for your NPPL including books tests etc, it is great value for money.

If you currently train on PA28s then go for 3 axis microlights since most of your training to date will be of use and you will be supprised how familiar it all feels.

Best of luck

DFC

[SpeedBird22]

Gijoe - Ah well I think scaring myself is partly why I love flying so maybe it is the way to go!

DFC - You're right I don't have a PPL. Spent a very happy summer flying from Filton in 2001 and was literally about to go on my QXC when my instructor checked my account and the dialogue went something like this:

Him: 'Er....I'm afraid you've run out of money'

Me: 'What do you mean I've run out of money?'

Him: 'You've used all the flying time you've paid for. Please give me the keys to the plane. Now. NOW!'

Me: *Wailing and crying on the floor as I know I have no more money to give him*

So no more flying for me. Anyway, now I have access to a bit more money thanks to a grad loan so can afford to take a year out and fly. The fixed wing seems like a good idea. Thanks for your comments.

BAW22:D :D

[Pogs]

It also depends what sort of microlight you are talking about. I've got a PPL A (showing my age) but found that the cost of £100+ per hour for C-152 was a little difficult to "square off" (justify is a completely different concept altogether!). I looked at ways of reducing the costs & at my local airfiled I noticed that a share in a Jabiru UL was up for grabs. £40 per hour (plus monthly sub) - that will do the trick. The Jab performs much better that 152, cheaper, more internal room (if you don't look too hard) and reduced landing fees.

It could be said what looks like a SEP, flies like a SEP but isn't a SEP - Jabiru UL, or similar microlight. Just beware of loadings...

[Speedbird252]

Hi Speedbird22, ahh only 230 to go...!

Anyway, you say you have already done 40 hours in PA28`s, where are you in your training? With 40 hours im assuming you must be well on the way to a PPL (a) anyway?

Just seems like alot of experience to shelve in favour of a cheaper ride..

Regards,

Speedy:ok:

[Monocock]

Of course it's "worth" microlighting. If it wasn't then nobody would bother doing it would they?!

There are two types of pilot. One loves flying for the sake of being up there. The other type is the type who learns because "it's a cool thing to do" and these people are always the ones wanting to fly something bigger, faster and flashier all the time. Needless to say, this particular breed are self-dwindling as their licences usually lapse after a few months of showing off to their mates. (And before you flare mongers kick in I can give several good examples of this breed).

Microlight pilots are the salt of the aviation earth. They are not trying to be flash, they are doing what they are doing because they live it and breath it. Let's face it, you can't really be flash in a microlight. Therefore you will be mixing with a dedicated and helpful bunch of people if you throw yourself into that world.

I have never flown in a microlight although I must say I would love to. My flying is done in my good ole' boring Piper but I love it for what it is and snigger silently to myself sometimes when I see tossers strutting around big flashy machines as if they are some kind of avian matador.

It takes many years to work out exactly what kind of flying is for you. After 14 years and nearly 1000 hrs I still change my mind about the type of aircraft I should have instead of mine, almost monthly!

You'll know you love flying when you go to bed after a good trip feeling a warmth inside that cannot be created by anything else (well.......almost!!!!!!).

Try it, if you love it then stick with it. If you don't then have some PPL (A) lessons. I reckon you'll have just as much fun in a microlight.

Oh and by the way, if you are concerned that microlighting is considered the poor relation to the rest of GA (as many seem to think) ignore it, it's not. Aviation can be one of the snobbiest recreations about (second to village cricket and pony club). Sod the mis-informed opinionated types and do what the hell you want.

Monocock

P.S You can probably tell i have had a bad day and a gutfull of arrogant tossers standing in my way today!!

[SpeedBird22]

Speedy252 - You're right, I was nearly at qualifying XC...the only big problem is that it was nearly three years ago so I'd bet good money that most flight schools would make me sit through stuff like straight and level and circuits again (hell I probably need it anyway), so was thinking that starting from scratch in a micro might be just as cheap.

Also, as monocock was rattling on about (meant in the nicest possible way buddy :ok: ), I fancy a bit of grass roots flying. Something seems amazinf about taking off from a quiet field without worrying too much if you're about to collide with a Seneca on finals and just buzzing around wherever you want without telling anyone. But mono, I agree with you about aviation snobiness! Present company excluded, I think a lot of that is demonstrated on Pprune *runs and hides*.

On a random note, have any of you read Propellerhead by Anthony Woodward? Just a book about an inept flyer determined to get a PPL (A) Microlight and thats what sort of inspired me to look at the little 'uns.

Cheerio for now,

BirdSeed22


**Edited because I am now thinking about spending my flying money on an English Language course cos I can't spell**

[gingernut]

Speedbird, try a trial lesson.


Did so once, great fun, and was pretty sure then, microlighting wasn't for me ! (Went on to gain PPL in Cessna)

Read a book called "Propellerhead" (about £7 from Waterstones), when I was on holiday earlier this year. Great read, not sure if its an accurate reflection of what microlighting is all about, but gave me a little more insight.

[Capt BK]

Speedbird22

I don't know anything at all about microlighting but what I do know is there is a gut at my club going for his PPL and has completed everything to the required standard in 33hrs! He's literally just practicing everything now for another 12hrs before he can do his test. He's maybe just a natural but he say's his years of microlighting have helped him immensely, and he had a lot of fun while he was doing that.

I say go for a trial lesson and see if you like it, if you do go for it:D

[SpeedBird22]

Hmmm booking a trial lesson seems to be the consensus.Okay then you've persuaded me. I'll give pegasus a call at Enstone and see when they can fit me it *hops up and down excitedly*. Just hope I get it before the weather turns.

I'll let you know how it went, and whether or not I fall out of the cockpit (I'm used to swedish porno leather seats and having a roof over my head in my warrior :D )

TTFN,

BirdSeed22

[DFC]

Speedbird 22,

OK since you have not yet got the PPL, I would recomend that you contact the BMAA and after explaining what training you have completed, ask them what credit they will give you towards the training requirement.

Microlight Training requirement is 15 hours (including dual and solo) for a restricted rating and another 5 hours nav with a total of 25 hours for the unrestricted rating.

I expect that the best way forward would be for you to cover every lesson briefly until you are familiar and having gone solo, build the requird solo time before sitting the GFT. Some nav and nav solos should soo you with a NPPL and Microlight Rating.



Capt BK,

Glad I am not a student at your club :(

Seems that your club makes students do unnecessary extra hours.

As far as I am aware, a Microlight Pilot needs far less than 30 hours to gain a SEP rating under the NPPL requirements and then once holding a NPPL SEP there is a defined conversion to JAR-PPL.

Also even if the pilot had no previous flying experience, ther minimum hours required to sit the JAR-PPL GFT are 35? (don't have the exact figures to hand) but definitely not 45.

Don't take it personally but the UK has a big problem with clubs ripping off customers causing potential customers of reputable clubs to go abroad for training. Thus everyone suffers.

Regards,

DFC

[Fly Stimulator]

DFC,

You may be at cross purposes with Capt BK I think.

The formal minimum to upgrade from a microlight licence to an NPPL SEP is three hours, to include particular things such as intrument appreciation etc. After that it's at the discretion of the instructor. The examiner ultimately gets to express a view too of course. ;)

What I think CBK was referring to is the upgrade from a microlight licence to a JAR PPL. In that case the microlight pilot can only be credited with 10% of their hours, up to a maximum of 10 hours. This therefore leaves at least 35 hours to do.

I've been through all this over the last year - upgraded the microlight licence to an NPPL SEP last August so I could take more passengers from time-to-time, then got frustrated at not being able to take them across the Channel.

I was then in the strange position of doing 35 hours more training in aircraft I was already quite legal to fly in the UK, just so I could fly them elsewhere as well. After all that was out of the way I had to get an FAA certificate as well, so I can still cross the water in the event that the aircraft registration happens to start with 'N'.

On the subject of microlights in general I still enjoy them very much. Monocock put it very well. There's a great community spirit in the microlight world and there are always events and fly-ins going on somewhere. gijoe has an oddly limited view of what microlights are: the one I used to have was to all intents and purposes a normal light aircraft, except that it cruised at 120 knots using 18 litres per hour and even had a good cabin heater.

I'd say microlights are definitely worth it :O

[Whirlybird]

Did I miss it? Has anyone mention what seems to me most obvious - which sort of microlights do you want to fly?

3-axis microlights look like conventional aircraft; in fact, some of them WERE conventional aircraft until the 450kg limit came along. Some of them, like the Jabiru, fly faster (and some say perform better) than some conventional aircraft. And the controls work the way you're used to. And you have a huge range, from £4000 (or less) single seaters, to £30,000 (or more) machines that will do everything.

Flexwing microlights are the ones that look like flying motorbikes with a hangglider wing...and the ones that scare people. The controls work differently, and if you're used to 3-axis controls, you'll find that they work...backwards. :eek: If you do a search you'll find a long thread on my attempts to fly them; I went solo but never finished the conversion, but the thread might give you a bit of an idea what to expect. I only found them mildly scary, and soon got over that, but they were very cold! But they ARE cheap - £3000 or less (though when I was in Scotland someone flew into Oban in a Pegasus Quik, all £24,000 of it) - and are very cheap to run.

Maybe you should try both types and see which you like.

[Capt BK]

DFC + Stimulator,

I may have got the details wrong, i'm going by what i picked up in conversation and from a little earwigging:eek: I do know it is definately a JAR PPL he is after though because he's planning a trip over the channel.

[Crossedcontrols]

I did the PA28 route in the UK, got bored with it, then got into vintage taildraggers within a PFA group. Cost 40 quid a month at 25 per hour.
If I were you and could take a year off, I’d go to the US and get my PPL (A) (use those hours of experience you already have), get a taildraggers rating, then spend some time out there flying for peanuts in something like a J3 Cub or Citabria. Come back to the UK try microlights or join a group with a PFA aircraft and see how it goes.
As someone has already said learning in/on a microlight is not much cheaper than a 152, you might as well go for the PPL (A) as you will have more to choose from when renting.
This is my biased opinion, and I am sure will get up someone’s nose.

CC

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ultimately microlights are aeroplanes under a totally artificial weight line that is designed to give cheap flying. It happens that a lot of them are flexwings, and clearly couldn't be anything but microlights. But try the following spot the differences quiz (ignore the registrations, all the foreign registered stuff is flying here too)...


http://www.wlv-blexen.nordlichtspots.de/Flugzeuge/g109b.jpg http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/flylight/images/Misc/chevron.jpg
One of these is a microlight, the other is a certified motorglider

http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_register/GImages/g-bzor001.jpg
Of the two aircraft in the foreground, one is a microlight, the other is currently registered as a light aeroplane

http://www.sandtoft-ultralights.co.uk/images/BMtoff.jpg http://www.bmaa.org/mfch.jpghttp://www.bmaa.org/mfch701.jpghttp://www.av8r.co.uk/acatalog/Vpjp.jpg
And which are these, microlight or light aircraft (clue: two of each)

G

N.B. All these images are linked to other people's websites. If anybody objects to this, let me know and I'll edit the post.

N.B.B. The third and the last of these pictures are the only types I haven't got in my logbook. I don't suppose anybody would care to offer.... Oh well, it was worth a try.

[pondlife]

I used to fly microlights. I had an extremely slow Pegasus XL flexwing but used to regularly fly it cross country and had loads of fun in it. I flew it to France once and it was all much more fun than the almost routine trips to France in a small CofA aeroplane.
I sold it several years ago when I was training toward a CPL and now instruct on light planes instead - but I still miss it and intend to buy another when I've saved up my pocket money.
I'd recommend microlighting to anyone who's flying for fun rather than for transport (which seldom works practically for PPL holders in the UK anyway).

Unless he's changed a lot in the last few years I would definitely recomend Geoff Weighell at Enstone for your trial and subsequent training.

[SpeedBird22]

For what its worth I think I'd only consider 3 axis micro's. The main reason being purely that they are the closest to 'real' enclosed aircraft as you can get. A flex wing, in my un-learned opinion, is purely a hanglider with a engine.

Anyway after all of this I dropped off at Oxford airport today and was oh so very nearly persuaded by a skillful salesman/instructor to forget microlighting and pay to finish off the PPL in a PA28. Oh so tempting.

Yours,

Confused, of Oxford.

:D :O :D

[Pilotage]

For what it was worth, I was in much the same when I graduated a bit over ten years ago - in my case I'd done the equivalent of about half a PPL with a University Air Squadron. I wanted to keep flying, was short on cash, so went the microlight route.

I started 3-axis for the same reasons you describe, got the hang of it after a little and got my license. Wonderful, and cheap, flying (for the first couple of years in a club syndicate).

Then I had a yen to own my own, and realised that I couldn't really afford a whole 3-axis aeroplane, but could afford a flexwing. So I went and did the conversion - and without doubt the first few hours scared me silly. After a little bit I got the hang of it, and after a dozen hours I felt comfortable. My first aircraft, with about 250 hours on it was a 2-seat flexwing costing me £3,600 in 1997 and it's given me years of cheap and happy flying. Without doubt flexwing flying feels utterly unnatural at first, but once you've got the hang of it it's incredibly good fun. Mind you, so is 3-axis microlight flying, you've just got to expect to shell out at-least £6k for a half decent 2-seater.

But, let me set your mind at rest on one point - flexwings are as safe and as strong as any other aeroplane, and once you've got the hang of them just as good in strong winds (unless you're flying straight into one to be fair). They are slower, but you can trailer them off places with you (or recover them easily by road if you get weathered in somewhere). Swings and roundabouts really, but both are great.

And a bit like the chap mentioned above, my group A license was a doddle after flying microlights for a few years.

P