Callsigns

[WelshFlyer]

Now; probably going to make a compleat fool of myself. I have noticed some of the posts have referances to various callsigns and flight codes on posts (and on the private flying forum - we all know the RAF use there own callsigns and the airlines, well I don't know what the airlines do).

As a very ignorant wannabe it is my understanding that on making you're first call on approach to an airfield/airport you call "Golf - XXXX" and after the first call "Golf - XX" (last two letters of registration)

Under what circumstances do you use other callsigns and flight codes? (the first one that springs to mind is "Tyro")

WelshFlyer.

[FlyingForFun]

First, a correction to a point you made. The abbreviated (G-xx) format is only used after you are addressed that way by the ground station. If the ground station continue to use your full call-sign, then you must use your full call sign when replying to them. (In practice, it's so rare that they need you to use your full call sign that when they do, they'll always explicitly say something like "G-ABCD, use full call-sign please, similar call-sign on frequency." And after you confirm that, they'll tell the other guy too: "G-YZCD, use full call-sign please, similar call-sign on frequency.")

As for other call-signs, they are allocated by the international radio licensing organisation (whose name escapes me, but it's one of those alphabet-soup acronyms). Anyone can apply for one. Certain schools use them - one particular school I know of has one for each of its instructors, and another one for each of its aircraft when there's no instructor in the aircraft. But you have to apply for, and be given, permission - you can't just start using a call-sign because you think it sounds good.

Hope that helps!

FFF
----------------

[CBLong]

You should only use the abbreviated callsign if the controller (or FISO etc) you're speaking to does so first... eg if you call "Airfield Rader, G-ABCD, request flight information service", and they reply "G-CD, pass your message", then you're ok to refer to yourself as G-CD from that point onwards - otherwise you must stick to the full G-ABCD.

As for other callsigns - not sure of the rules, but my flying club uses "special" callsigns... eg when under instruction, I might be "Thanet 33", but flying the same aircraft solo, I'd be "Thanet CD". This system seems to work reasonably well in the local area although a certain popular airfield near Ashford doesn't recognise the "Thanet" callsigns, so one has to revert to the full G-ABCD - just one more thing to remember!

cbl.

[WelshFlyer]

Thanks for the information - and the correction! I said I'd make a fool of myself. Presumeably if you apply for a special callsgn it must be globally unique?

WelshFlyer.

[big.al]

Airlines have their own 'callsigns' unique to that airline (eg. 'Speedbird' for British Airways, 'Baby' for BMIBaby). If the airline name is short then often just the name is used as the callsign (eg. Electra 512 would be Electra Airlines flight 512). It depends what the airline have registered as their official callsign. In theory anyone can have a callsign if it is registered, so perhaps I could go for 'BigAlOne'...:p

In General Aviation, the initial call to ATC etc would be the full callsign of the aircraft (registration) so if flying a UK registered aircraft it would be 'Golf - X-Ray Uniform Alpha Whiskey' for G-XUAW.

If flying an aircraft that is non-UK registered then (stating the obvious) it would be different, eg. in the USA when learning to fly I was using callsign of 'Cessna Five-One-Seven-Two-Bravo' when I was flying N5172B, a Cessna 152. However in the event of an emergency the 'Cessna' would be dropped in the callsign, which would then be given as 'November Five-One-Seven-Two-Bravo' with the aircraft type being given as part of the emergency call.

I'm not sure if this is standard US practice, but was the way I was taught. I heard some people using callsign N-XXXXX and some using 'Citation XXXXX or Warrior XXXXX etc. so there seemed to be a mix of the way it was done. Perhaps a US-based PPruner would like to straighten that one out if there is an 'approved' method..?

The pilot of an aircraft must NOT abbreviate the callsign until the air traffic unit has done so. So you are not quite correct when you say that the subsequent calls are 'Golf - Alpha Whiskey' (in the above example). There are also incidents (eg. when reading back a departure clearance) when the full callsign should be used even if abbreviations have already been used in RT calls to/from ATC.

'Tyro' is actually a military term used to identify an inexperienced pilot but this would be widely recognised by most (if not all) ATC in the UK. To my knowledge it is a UK term and so may not be recognised abroad. As I understand, the only time 'Tyro' is used is when declaring an emergency using a 'Pan' or 'Mayday' call, to indicate to the ATC unit that the pilot is inexperienced. This helps ATC avoid giving any complex instructions or too much information to allow the pilot on concentrating flying the aircraft.

Now realised that FFF has jumped in and answered your question ahead of me but hopefully between us we have been of help!

[WelshFlyer]

Ok, thanks for that:) I had read on one of the other posts that the code "Tyro" could be used by an in-experianced pilot so that the other aircraft/controller would not get angry at bad R/T skills.

Looks like I need to brush up on my own!

WelshFlyer.

[FlyingForFun]

I said I'd make a fool of myselfNot at all. One of the best ways of learning things is to have people on PPRuNe correct your mis-understandings - I've learnt loads by posting on here and having other people put me right!Presumeably if you apply for a special callsgn it must be globally unique?Yes. In fact, it can't even sound rougly like any other existing call-sign. And it has to be pronouncable to our international fellow aviators. And probably lots of other stuff too!

FFF
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[Circuit Basher]

AIUI, the CAA approve the use of the 'special callsigns', such as 'Thanet xx', 'Tayside yy', etc. There was even a club that I flew with where the CFI had approval for one of the aircraft to be referred to as 'AirGoat' (and I saw the letter of CAA authority for that one!!) ;) There are usually specific operating areas outside which these should not be used and the aircraft reverts t a G-ABCD callsign.

[TheKentishFledgling]

I passed my RT oral earlier today, but reading this thread made me think of something I'd not thought about, but probably is so trivial it doesn't matter.

If a station abbreviates you're callsign, are you then allowed to use you full callsign if you wish?

I was chatting to my RT examiner after I'd passed, and he said that tyro isn't as widely understood as people think. My "flight" on the RT exam had "Qualifications: student pilot" at the top, and even though I thought "TYRO" as soon as I saw this, I forgot to use it. I thought I'd lose marks for this, but thankfully, I didn't :}

tKF

[Whirlybird]

Welshflyer.

You are most definitely NOT making a fool of yourself; good question; I just learned some new stuff in the answers.

[strafer]

When I was learning in the States, I was taught Type-Full callsign, eg, Warrior-N12345. This would then be abbreviated by ATC to Type-Last 3 characters. As in the UK, only ATC got to decide whether to abbreviate. Whether this is the same all over the States, I don't know.

[Andrew Sinclair]

Here is a link to the CAA radiotelephony manual CAP 413.

CAP 413 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf)

It is a "Free" Adobe Acrobat download. In recent years it seems to have increased in size and appears to be updated reasonably regularly. It is now at the 13th edition and should cover matters concerning phraseology in aviation radiotelephony (e.g. TYRO is mentioned under Note 2 of Para 5.1 of Chapter 11, page 3).

As with all aviation there are some contentious bits and pieces which have been debated on occasions, but it is the rulebook as far as r/t is concerned I guess.

I tend to read the official word and then modify my understanding and application based on the experience of other pilots both more and less experienced and add a bit of common sense dependant of the r/t situation.

[flyingfemme]

Proper callsigns are allocated by ICAO and are valid globally. They are a callsign (preferably something that is not likely to be misheard on the radio) and an associated 2, or 3, letter identifier. The identifier is used, with a number, on the flightplan instead of a tail number. Any person, or organisation, with a good reason for needing a callsign can apply for one. Airlines use a callsign and flight number so that a specific route/timing always has the same identity whatever physical aircraft is being flown (they may not know this at time of filing). Others may use a number to identify the pilot, the purpose or the date of flight.
Due to the large numbers of applicants there are now restricted callsigns in use; they tend to be valid in specific areas and do not have an associated identifier. They sound good and mean you don't need to search for the tail number every time you open your mouth.

In the USA it is common and accepted practice to use your aircraft type instead of "november" over the airwaves so that everybody knows what sort of performance to expect from you. If you hear "Lear1234 ten miles out" you will expect to see him long before "Cherokee4321" at a similar distance. It is simply a courtesy.

[flower]

TKF,
you may continue to use the full call-sign if ATC have abbreviated it, there is nothing thats says you cannot however unless there is a similar call-sign on frequency it will be abbreviated by ATC so it may be easier to hear yourself being called if you use the same method of identifying yourself as them.

A question can never be daft if you don't know the answer :)

[WelshFlyer]

Thanks! All interesting stuff - especially the CAP 413. I'm now studying this as I fly in North Wales there is no airline traffic, except on the airway B1, and i never listen in to that. and our light traffic is quite relaxed as far as R/T goes.

WelshFlyer

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi,

I understand that until recently you could write to the CAA and ask for a callsign, but that of recently you will only be allocated one if you are a commercial operator.

FD

[CSX001]

Flyin Dutch is correct

You apply to the CAA for a callsign, who apply on your behalf to ICAO in Montreal. Whereas there was a time when you could obtain a callsign on application, one will now only be allocated to an AOC holder.

If you don't know what an AOC is, then the whole subject of personalised callsigns need worry you no further.

Charlie.

[md 600 driver]

csx001
your sarcastic post is untrue i applied for and got a identifer and i am a private owner i do not have a aoc
steve

[CSX001]

AIC White 44 is the current policy statement on this subject

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W060.PDF

Check sections three and four. Last time I spoke to that nice Mr Turner, this policy was being enforced.

Charlie.

[flyingfemme]

MD600 did you get a "proper" callsign with a 3-letter identifier or a "Noddy" version without? And when did you get it - the rules have changed due to lack of availability.

[CSX001]

Even Noddy callsigns are not available to non-AOC holders. In fact the AIC even goes so far as to say:

"A Telephony Designator will not under any circumstances be issued to an individual for personal use"

I am guessing that "Steve" got his some time ago, or was circumspect about the use to which the callsign was going to be put.

Tell us more Steve.


Charlie

[Blind lemon]

Heard chopper out of Sywell calling up as Big Splash One
a couple of weeks back.

Doesnt breed confidence when reporting in over Pitsford

;)

[md 600 driver]

i dont know what a noddy one is but i got heli astral
steve