How many pilots (CPL+) give up for another profession?

[Flock1]

Let's get things out in the open first. I'm a PPL and a school teacher, and I would love to give up my present job and become a professonal pilot.

And judging from the postings on this website - I am not alone. It is obvious that a lot of people with 'down to earth' jobs would give it all up to become pilots.

But the question is, does it work the other way 'round?

I presume that for all of us non commercial pilots (or indeed non-pilots) that the grass seems much greener on the other side. We are prepared to give up our time and money to pursue the 'dream'. We look to the skies whenever we see an airliner overhaead and think: 'I wish that was me!'

So back to my question.

How many airline pilots give up their jobs to join us in the ranks of the mundane? I cannot believe that any professional pilots will willingly resign from their their job to go and do something else.

And before you all shout at me; I know that being an airline pilot is not always as rosy as it seems. Getting up at the crack of dawn to fly a sector that nobody wants, or getting hassled from 'the management' is not much fun.

But it is surely better than what we (the non ATPL's) do?

I would love to hear from pilots who 'hate the job' or 'can't wait to retire'. Because at aged 31, I need some excuses not to continue with my training.

P.S. I am also aware that pilots who have moved onto other professions (if there are any that is) will not be reading this post, and so I am probably talking to people who cannot answer my question.

But there you go

Flock1

[604guy]

Well as I have been doing this professionally for almost three decades now you might say that I am quite happy with the road I chose. I get to play with some fun toys, go to some nice locales (yes and some not so nice ones too!) work with good people and my employer insists on paying me. So......I think I'll keep what I've got thank you. :D

[blowawayjet]

Flock1

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quote: "But the question is, does it work the other way 'round? '
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simple fact is, that this industry is an addiction. it's like a bad drug, once you've taken it, you want nothing else but..... i know people who've left the industry, then coming back a few years later, 'cause they miss it.

even if you're a PPL, i'm sure you wouldn't want to miss any flights that you can put in... i know i didn't. you're hooked on it already. just like all the rest of us. so there's your answer.

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quote: So back to my question.

How many airline pilots give up their jobs to join us in the ranks of the mundane? I cannot believe that any professional pilots will willingly resign from their their job to go and do something else.
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i have very good friends, who are sick and tired of flying, and can't wait to retire, or to find another job. these guys have been flying for thousands of hours in africa, and then decided to get a retirement flying job back in europe. after a little while, these guys were getting enough of flying, well flying in europe that is. now they're looking for all kinds of ways out of aviation. the reason for that is, is because they're simply no longer enjoying the kind of avaition they're in right now.

as for me, if i can't get a flying job for a while, i'll look for something else, preferably out of aviation, untill a good flying job comes along again, and i can strap myself back in the seat. i guess that counts for most of us.

now, i have a question for you, Flock1, you got a job for me?


the rest of you can slaugher me now!

[Notso Fantastic]

My one experience of a pilot who felt a real calling for another profession- to become a teacher, ended not well. He dedicated himself at the end of his flying career, got qualified, and moved to Cornwall to teach. Much to his surprise, the little brats didn't want to learn his pearls of wisdom, and he lasted not! If pilots leave flying, it is always for a self employed role- property development, home industry, whatever. It's hard to turn that self reliance/independence into a workplace employee culture.

[Anthony Carn]

In my experience, with comments from others whose opinion I trust thrown in, it really depends upon the company you end up with. There are good and there are unbearably bad outfits.

In addition, it's a strange career, in that one becomes locked into one company fairly early on (I'm talking airlines, here). It's not simply a seniority thing ; other airlines will exclude applicants above a fairly young cut-off age, admittedly with occasional exceptions. I'm talking UK airlines, here.

Combine the above two factors and you can understand why some pilots might be desparate to get out if they're locked into a "career" with a rotten company.


One very noticeable development, certainly in the outfit I work for, is the recent (last few years) dramatic increase in pilots who declare themselves as being absolutely desparate to get out. Some are recent, young recruits ! If that's a continuing trend, then there'll be big problems ahead, mainly a fall in quality, standards and safety, not to mention the attractiveness of the profession.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've known virtually no pilots who voluntarily gave up flying until at-least their 60s, but I've known quite a lot of pilots who gave up airline flying. For example (all real)...

- A civilian test pilot instructor at ETPS who left Virgin after getting fed up of flying 747s.

- A former airline captain who lives locally to me who got fed up of the airline schedule and left to become a light aircraft QFI

- A very well known test pilot at CAA who did 5 years as an airline captain until he could escape to real flying again, even if it did involve working for the CAA.

- A former military pilot who left with a CPL, did commercial flying very briefly then gravitated to (flying) missionary work.

- Most AAIB ops inspectors are ex airlines, and maintain currency but have slotted into this partly ground based (but 100% aviation) role.

- The Piper dealer in the Czech republic used to fly 737s but decided that he prefers flying, selling and supporting little aeroplanes full time. (Nice chap, also owns the pilot shop at Prague airport.)


G

[FlyingForFun]

I'm another of those who's desparate to leave my current job (in IT) and fly for a living.

IT has its enthusiasts, you only need to look at the magazine shelf in WHSmith to see that. Certainly I used to enjoy tinkering around with computers in my spare time when I was a student. But since working in the industry full-time, I no longer have any interest in computing outside the office. In the 7 years I've worked in this industry, I have met only one person who still enjoys computing as much as we probably all did before we started doing it professionally.

Then I compare this to flying. I look around my local flying club, and I see that a large number of the guys flying light aircraft in their spare time are commercial pilots. The guy who did my PFA Coaching on my current aircraft flies airliners. One of the co-owners of my aircraft, who also built it, is a retired airline pilot. I see airline pilots giving after-dinner speeches at award nights, or instructors scraping together every last penny to fly their own aircraft after their last lesson of the day.

Ok, so it's only a minority of commercial pilots who still fly privately just for the fun of it. But it's a hell of a lot higher than the number of IT professionals who go home after a hard day's work and tinker with their home computer just for fun.... There's definitely something unique about flying.

FFF
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[Genghis the Engineer]

If I'm guilty of sidetracking this thread too badly, somebody tell me off. However:-

I work full time in aviation, it happens in my case to be a combined Engineering / Flying / Managing role, which largely suits me well. I have only for short periods of my career ONLY done engineering, for most of it I've flown as well - this has required a mixture of qualifications and that hasn't personally given me a problem.

However let's take FFF for example - he's a bright and technically capable chap, who flies a lot (and presumably well although I've not shared a cockpit with him and therefore can't really judge). What if FFF decided that he wanted to build on his existing experience and do some combination of...

- Designing his own perfect aeroplane and setting up a company to build, test and sell them.
- Working on an airfield as an Air Trafficer (a strange ambition but I suppose possible)
- Working in some technical / flying combined field such as test flying.


Now if you are planning to become a pilot, there are numerous mechanism available to aim for anything between PPL and ATPL whilst doing another job. I believe that similar mechanisms exist to gain ATC qualifications in your own time.

Yet there's not a hope of his becoming an aeronautical engineer without giving up work and studying full time for an absolute minimum of 3 years. For anybody with financial commitments, this is absolutely impossible.

A couple of years ago, with another moderately significant aeronautical engineer I wrote a joint and open letter to the aeronautical universities - also copied to the main aero-eng publications. The letter basically said that the UK aerospace industry was being crippled by this. And not a single response, nobody published it, nothing. I'm increasingly of the view that this lack is doing two things:-

(1) It prevents any existing people (pilots or engineers) in the aerospace industry making the move into design / certification / flight test / etc. where their experience would be useful.

(2) It basically means that aeronautical engineering is effectively closed to people like, say, Flock1 who might want to build upon an existing maths or science degree and go set up his own company to design and build light aeroplanes.


I'm getting to the point of thinking it's so serious (I know from practical experience that it's virtually impossible for any light aircraft company in the UK to recruit a competent aeronautical engineer) that I should go and become an academic on the condition that I can pursue this from a university base.

Sorry, rant mode off. You chaps go back to the happy assumption that the only important or interesting aeronautical career is in flying from A to B in an aeroplane that magically appeared from building full of people with no aviation interest.

G

[Tinstaafl]

I've known or known of lots of pilots who fall/slip/choose or are pushed out of flying for a living. Unless you're one of the fortunate few then a good job is by no means a certainty. Whilst airlines are seen as the most obvious part of aviation they're not necessarily the largest employer.

Pay & conditions is very low at the piston GA end of the industry with a gradual rise the further away you get with a comparitively exponential rise as a jet captain.

Many times one's employement is shaky. Retrenchments, furloughs, bankruptcy etc. 'Casual' employment (paid per hour flown) but you're required to be present the whole day/week and usually expected to do work related activities while there eg answering the phones. Rosters that conform to the letter of the law - if you're lucky - but not the intent. Middle or senior management who put pressure on the pilot to 'get the job done' irrespective of the illegality. As long as such things aren't recorded then they can't be proven. Annual leave that's accrued on the basis of a 5 day working week - but used up on the basis of each day away is a potential work day & therefore credited against one's leave entitlement.

Such is the lot if you don't strike lucky and end up in a (reputable) airline.

[M.Mouse]

VC10 First Officer Norman Tebbitt gave up his job with BOAC to pursue a career as an MP and, eventually, cabinet minister.

It is something that has exercised my mind of late, working as I do for a major UK airline whose staff appear bent on mass suicide!

I cannot think of anything I would rather be doing.

[Capt BK]

The last time there was a thread on this subject I got the impression that the people that wanted to leave aviation, young or old, had worked in the industry most of there lives and seemed unaware that the decline in working conditions, pay, and seemingly rights for non-management workers is happening everywhere. That may sound dramatic, but you don't work on the chemical site that i do!!

Now I am by no means an expert on the subject so please don't shoot me down, its only a gut feeling, im sure there's plenty who left knowing full well the situation.

[Celtic Frog]

I have to confess that I've been actively looking for a career change having completed 20 years of airline flying (28 years flying in total) and it's extremely difficult to find another career which will have the same "addictive" effect as flying has on me.
I can't bear the thought of being employed by someone..self employment is the only option I wish to consider..but being a "boy's toys" enthusiast (aeroplanes, gliders, parachutes etc)
the only things I want to do don't make money...and the things that make money would be unbearably depressing after a 20 year airline career.
So if you give up something to become an airline pilot...expect to become permanently hooked!!!