CAA request help from GA pilots

[Mike Cross]

The Aeronautical Charts & Data section of the CAA would like your help.

The CAA VFR charts show disused airfields, masts, and other features readily visible from the air such as wind farms, radio telescopes etc.

In many cases there is no statutory requirement for the CAA to be informed if something is built or dimantled, or if a disused airfield is returned to agriculture and becomes hardly visible from the air. This can result in misleading chart data.

There is a feedback form here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/64/DAP_ACD_Feedback.pdf) (pdf format) which you can use to notify them of any new features that you feel should be put on the chart or old features that you feel should be deleted because they are no longer conspicuous.

The same form can be used to notify them of private strips so that the location can appear on the chart.

So if you know of a useful landmark that should appear on the chart, or an existing one that is of little use, please let them know!

The CAA charts homepage (http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/dapcharts/default.asp) contains a full up to date listing of amendments to the current charts.

Mike

BRL - any chance of making this sticky for a few days?

[Keef]

I found the CAA charts people immensely professional and helpful when compiling the A4A airfields list, and echo Mike's words. If you know of a disused airfield that's disappeared, or of a new flying site, let them know. They want to know!

I was amazed to learn that these folks fly themselves over the sites when they can, to check what's still there. Dedication!

[AerBabe]

Hang on ... these people get to fly around the country in light aircraft, and are paid to do it? Don't suppose they want to take on a bright graduate, with a possible MPhil on the cards, as well as keen interest in aviation and mapping, do they?

British maps; easily the best in the world. :ok:

[Keef]

No, they don't get PAID to do the flying. They are pilots (as well as the "day job").

Sorry!

What's this with MPhil?

[Andrew Sinclair]

I met one of the guys at CAA AC&D guys at AIS and he was also manning the stand at PFA Kemble and he mentioned he has a PPL. Not sure he gets to use it much for work though.

[Coriolis The Crab]

That's rich, that is. 'CAA request help from GA pilots'?

Is that in return for all the help the CAA give GA pilots?

[WorkingHard]

CTC - Despite the views some have of the CAA are you able to provide an example to substantiate your obvious dislike of the CAA. I do think we would all be better served if we actually listened to what they say and seek advice when necessary. In the last 20 years or so I have had exceptionally good service from the CAA. My only real gripe is the level of fees!

[Keef]

It's easy to malign "faceless bureaucracies", and no doubt some deserve it.

The fees charged by the CAA for some "services" are a disgrace, and some of the attitudes and requirements infuriate us.

But the folks who do the CAA charts are also pilots, they aren't responsible for the crazy rules we all yell at, and they want to do the very best job they can for us. Many of us have met them in various places, and they are not deserving of being maligned. Let's give them the help they ask for - they deserve it, and we'll get better charts, too.

[david viewing]

Just a thought:

Could they give consideration to providing a plain paper chart after the style of a US sectional in place of the present laminated affair, at a US style price, $8.00 vs £14.00 (or $22.40 for our US readers).

Personally, I much prefer to be able write tracks, times and other observations on the chart rather than having to use marker pens that often obliterate underlying detail.

Of course the US sectional comes already folded and is much easier to manipulate in the air. It folds down to a much smaller volume that the laminated thing, even if well used. When folded, the spine conveniently shows the area, validity and other info for quick reference.

It is also far easier for retailers to stock, easier to post and more convenient for pilots to carry a selection, just in case.... I could go on.

If a US sectional wears out, or if I pour coffee on it, I just buy a new one (from any FBO - they always seem to have them). And I have yet to accidentally rip one apart in flight, although the time might come..

Several US FBO's that I know have UK S England charts pinned to a wall somewhere just show students how tough things are in Europe! But I don't hear them clamouring to the FAA to get their charts produced in UK style laminated form.

I suspect that this subject has been done to death before, but does anyone agree (or disagree)? After all, it would be a relatively easy thing to do - just send the digitised copy to a US printer and back comes a UK 'sectional'!

[Circuit Basher]

For those who are not familiar with the art, this is a link to (hopefully) unravel the mysteries of folding an aviation chart (http://uk.msnusers.com/CircuitBasher/Documents/Aeronautical%20Chart%20Folding.doc).

I've only actually used it in anger twice and it proved to be a good system. As with all systems, it requires some adaptation for local circumstance, as the Northern England / Ireland chart is very wide in relation to its height and I had to adapt the fold ratio a little to make a sensible result from of it. If done properly, it results in a concertina style a la Ordnance Survey LandRanger series.

If it isn't done properly, there's always the pub option..... ;) :) http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/ernaehrung/food-smiley-012.gif :ok:

[down&out]

David,

Having used the CAA charts (frequently) and US/ Irish/ French etc on trips, I have to say for day to day flying from my home base give me a laminate chart any day. I have learnt to draw on it without covering up what I need to read underneath (just use super-fine permanent OHP pens). The lines stay on for the flight, but then with a bit of spirits (I use nail polish remover) I've got a clean chart read to go somewhere else.

As far as version control goes, I put the old one in the cupboard/ bin when I get the new one- not too tough?

I guess for one off use, it may seem o.t.p. to laminate it, so maybe the CAA could offer both, but don't take the laminate one away from me please;)

[flower]

Un-laminated charts are available, its simply laminated are more popular but ask your supplier and they can get you one.

[ModernDinosaur]

David Viewing commented:
Could they give consideration to providing a plain paper chart after the style of a US sectional in place of the present laminated affair, at a US style price, $8.00 vs £14.00 (or $22.40 for our US readers).
Two comments: first, as flower mentioned, the CAA do produce pre-folded paper (non-laminated) charts. Second, the US charts are only valid for three months, while the CAA charts are valid for a whole year. Four times $8 is $32, or £20, so US pilots are actually paying more for their paper charts than the UK pilot pays for a laminated one.

The CAA may do many things which annoy GA pilots, but by and large the charts are (in my opinion) pretty darned good. Now if they would just produce one without all the upper airspace clutter...

Cheers,

MD.

[david viewing]

Modern Dinosaur

Surely it's a much better option to be able to buy an updated chart every 3 months, especially if they are cheap, easy to store and handle, etc..? Just look at the raft of frequency changes that make the '1yr' validity of UK charts questionable from anything but a legal standpoint.

Flower

Thanks for the point about paper charts, which I remember hearing of but like most PPL's have never seen. I didn't know they come folded as MD says. They are not easy to buy: Transair says "Charts are supplied laminated" and I couldn't find them at FlightStore either.

Since there's obviously not a whisper of support for my idea, I'll shut up now..

David

[Andrew Sinclair]

A couple of links that may help with the validity issue and keep your chart right up to date.

CAA DAP Aeronautical Charts & Data Section maintain a website of past and future amendments to both....

Quarter Mil Series (http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/dapcharts/250charts.asp)
and
Half Mil Series (http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/dapcharts/500charts.asp)

Giving the pilot the opportunity to update their own chart and reduce the necessity to purchase a new chart more frequently.

Also try this supplier for the paper chart variant

Documedia (http://www.documedia.co.uk/popups.asp?SubSectionID=3.8)

Failing that, here's a list of stockists.

CAA VFR Chart Stockists (http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/dapcharts/default.asp?page=43)

Failing that try e-mailing the section at the address below:

Aeronautical Charts & Data Section ([email protected])

They are very open to ideas David, try them and they may be able to help directly with your requirements.

[bcfc]

Its just like Coriolis The Crab to hijack a perfectly reasonable and valuable thread with a pathetic comment like that. Take a look at his profile and search on his 8 contributions to pprune - all pointless.

BRL - anything you can do?

[Tinstaafl]

I too loathe laminated charts. Give me a paper chart & a soft pencil any day. Even if I lose the pencil I can write on it with anything that marks - unlike laminated charts.

The paper doesn't wear out if you use a soft pencil. I have paper charts (WACs) that are still useable after 10yrs.

[englishal]

Here is a simple request that may help reduce airspace infringments:

On the back of the normal ½mil charts could you do what the US does on its terminal charts, that is a depiction of Class A/D [US B/C] airspace with no terrain features or other clutter? Towns / Cities / Navaids and MATZ's possibly, but remove the rest of the junk to make it very easy to see the airspace.

This makes it very simple to have a quick scan through as a 100% check that you're not going to be infringing any class A airspace.

Thanks !

Rgds
EA:D
Also not a big fan of laminated charts !

[Flying Tooth Driller]

MD said:

"Two comments: first, as flower mentioned, the CAA do produce pre-folded paper (non-laminated) charts. Second, the US charts are only valid for three months, while the CAA charts are valid for a whole year. Four times $8 is $32, or £20, so US pilots are actually paying more for their paper charts than the UK pilot pays for a laminated one."

FAA IFR stuff is revised every 3 months, but the VFR sectionals are revised every six months (unless it has been changed VERY recently).

Sorry to be picky ;-)


FTD

[FlyingForFun]

I have paper charts that are still useable after 10yrsMust just be me then... Two months of US flying, and I managed to wear holes in two copies of the sectional that I was using. Still, we're all different - nice to have the choice.

Actually, it was quite handy that I needed two copies of the sectional. It's double-sided, so when I got home and wanted to blu-tak the chart to the wall I needed two copies to be able to see both sides. (Please tell me I'm not the only person here who blu-taks old charts to walls! :O)

FFF
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