thoughtful flying

[inaspin]

Following on from the thread about the BBC anti aircraft programme, I wondered what have you done to help the situation with regards to your flying?

Does your airfield issue guidelines on noise abatement, as laid out by the GAAC. Do you contact the airfield you are visiting to check on circuit patterns before you fly there. Have you tried to reduce the noise from your aircraft. Are there other things you do to ease the noise problem when you are flying.

I am not trying to pass the buck, I fly a paricularly noisey aircraft, but if we pool our ideas, and pass on information we can actively help improve the situation ourselves.

[Andrew Sinclair]

Yes good idea. My summer and winter home airfields both have noise abatement procedures, here (http://www.redhillaerodrome.com/pages/noise.html) is an example. ATC proactively enforce these. On Sunday mornings, circuit training is not permitted during the local church service times and there is a form on line if a neighbour wishes to raise a noise issue along with a consultative committee drawn from the Aerodrome's management, its users, adjacent County, District and Parish Councils, the Residents' Association plus a number of other local groups and societies.

If ATC think you are likely to pass over an noise sensitive area based on your current track they certainly mention it over the r/t and ask you to avoid.

During my own flying, I tend to try to fly as high as possible. Apart from the obvious safety factors, flying high reduces the noise audible at ground level. I live right under the GA corridor between Heathrow and Gatwick. Most GA departing Biggin or Redhill to the West goes over my house and on to Guildford or Farnborough(Helis, Microlights, SEP, MEP and many vintage types). I spotted our group aircraft flying overhead a couple of weeks ago at 2400ft AMSL (2190 ft AGL) and about five minutes afterwards a R22 Heli flew over and it was alot lower. The volume of noise from the R22 was higher although I didn't find it as annoying as the enormous amount of motorcycles we have racing along the local A class road. Somehow the high pitch of a racing motorcycle at 100% power level and accelerating is more earpiecing than the steady sound of a Lycoming in the cruise.

The "worst offenders" if that is the correct term or rather the lowest flyers this year have been the Red Arrows on their way back from Biggin Hill airshow. But I am inspired by those pilots and enjoy seeing them fly over once a year.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

circuit training is not permitted during the local church service times Do the churches also refrain from making a noise during local people's sleeping times? I'm thinking partly of bells at utterly ungodly hours early on Sunday mornings here, but also remember living next to a chuch whose clock bell made loud noises every fifteen minutes all night so that I didn't get to sleep for the months I lived there.

[Andrew Sinclair]

Valid point, it happens here too. Noise pollution can be a nuisance no matter what the source dependant on a person's likes and dislikes. I am not giving an opinion about the procedures just saying what they are at Redhill and the fact that the aviation fraternity at Redhill respect those that choose to take religion on a Sunday morning. Some folk like church bells, some folk don't.

Noise from church bells isn't going to make a particularly viewer pulling television programme I suspect, so aircraft provide a better subject and probably result in higher ratings. Not saying I agree but rather just how it would appear to be.

[flower]

Most ATC units have noise abatement procedures and training in the circuit is usually not available until after 10 on a Sunday morning to reduce the noise disturbance to people.

Many airfields put these procedures in before complaints are made to keep the local residents happy.

Personally I have no problems with the noise , I like looking up to the skys in my garden and watching the aircraft fly by, i'm also under the down wind leg for Commercial traffic into Cardiff and am more than happy with that to.

Like Andrew any time the Red Arrows want to do a display over my house they are more than welcome :p

[28thJuly2001]

Like Andrew any time the Red Arrows want to do a display over my house they are more than welcome
They were very impressive the other Saturday over Cardiff.
I was delayed for 20 minutes while they had there fun over the airfield and I didn't bring my digital camera which usually lives in my flight bag
When they finished there fabulous display I felt quite embarrassed climbing into my flying lawnmower in front of a crowd of onlookers and put-putting about the sky at 90 knots... 28th,,

[WorkingHard]

July - do not be embarrased by your 90 knots. Remember we all love to see the Reds BUT they have been trained at our expense, fly aircraft bought and paid for at our expense, maintained to the highest standards at our expense and when the weather is too gloomy here for them they decamp to Cyprus to train - all at our expense. Yes they are brilliant and everyone loves to see them but whats to say you would not be just as good with no limit to your funds available. Be proud of your flying abilities.

[aiglon]

the enormous amount of motorcycles we have racing along the local A class road. Somehow the high pitch of a racing motorcycle at 100% power level and accelerating

Come on, don't fall in to the trap of the anti-flying brigade and start spouting stereotypical nonsense. Firstly, I'll wager (actually, I'll pretty much guarantee) that not one of those motorcycles is actually "racing" in the correct sense of the word. Secondly, I'll also pretty much guarantee that not one of them is actually using "100% power". Now, I know what you mean (even if I don't totally agree with you) but next time you read some tosh written by an anti-flying group, just remember that one man's tripe is another man's gourmet dinner (so to speak).

Anyway, enough of that, I need to get another can of beer :D

Aiglon

[Andrew Sinclair]

Hello aiglin,

I am not sure I am with you.

What anti-flying brigade trap, please explain to me what you mean?

Why is inaspin a hypocrite as in your title, have I missed something?

I am sure they don't use 100% power too, this was a figure of speech and should not be taken literally.

Concerning the racing, unfortunately a small minority of them do race. There are many riders who attend the Box Hill, Rykers Cafe most weekends and a good bunch they are too. It is a shame that a small minority decide to race along the A24 and surrounding roads.

Sorry if you were offended in any way by what I said but I am afraid to say that I think a motorcycle with a high reving engine is a worse noise nuisance than an aircraft, but I guess I am biased towards aircraft because I have a share in one and I don't own a motocycle, although I do go down to Box Hill occasionally to look at the bikes there.

I think that we are talking at total cross purposes but it happens occasionally.

[Spikeee]

When i first started curcuits and on my first solo the last thing on my mind was sticking to the noise adaptment procedures, although once i gained more confidence i did ensure i missed the sensitive areas.

I was at the RIAT at the w/end. Very impressive especially with the stealth (F-117) in formation with the red arrows. It was nice to see some commercial jets there too. The Boeing 757 and an Airbus (cant remember which one, minds gone blank). But was nice to see them there.

Left early though to miss traffic as had to get back, but the Stealth Bomber went over the car as i was driving through a small town, thats a sight that nearly caused a crash, very impressive; all i could hear was the sounds of the escorting aircraft.

Spike

[Timothy]

I am a magistrate whose area covers the A24 at Box Hill.

They do race...at least a small minority of them do.

W

[inaspin]

aiglon, I'm sorry but I don't understand your title calling me a hypocrite.

Let's not get into noise from motorcycles, strimmers, lawnmowers, motorways etc.. The purpose of the discussion is to address our problem, in that others perceive aircraft as noisey and obtrusive, flown by the rich.

Enough airfields are being closed or traffic movements restricted. As an airfield closes the aircraft based there move, another airfield now has more aircraft and a bigger noise problem, the anti's then rear their heads at this airfield, and on we go losing airfields restricting our pleasure.

Back to the point, how do we continue to fly and keep the NIMBY's at bay?

ps. Aiglon, I am a motorcyclist also, no noisey exhausts on my machine!

[inaspin]

apathy

no ideas or input from all you flyers, no wonder the NIMBY's are winning

[Lowtimer]

I do various things but I think they're all pretty obvious. Yes, whenever I fly somewhere new I always ring to check for any particular guidance on approach to avoid known noise issues. When practicing aerobatics I move from place to place to avoid any cumulative inconvenience. On approach I wait until final to go full fine on the prop, and at a low enough speed and power setting that it does not howl up the rev range when I do so. I also strongly prefer to cruise as high as possible. Last Sunday, going between Northants and North Yorkshire, I spent most of my time between 7500 and 8500 feet, and I bet hardly anyone on the ground could hear me. (Also I had fabulous vis, smooth air, avoided all the gliders which were below the 4/8 cu. layer, navigation was actually easier as the ground looks so much like the chart, plus I had lots more options in the event of engine trouble. Almost everyone else en route was between 2000 and 3000 feet grubbing about under the clouds where it was hot, humid and bumpy, the air was murkier, and the gliders were thermalling. Why don't more people climb and cruise at higher levels?)

[Evo]

Why don't more people climb and cruise at higher levels?


The London TMA... :(

[Lowtimer]

Evo -
Well, yes, the TMA is a big heavy blanket and that's one reason why I don't enjoy flying around that part of the UK very much, I hate low airspace ceilings. But it doesn't explain why out in the open FIR people still choose to grind along at the same heights.

[FlyingForFun]

I can think of lots of reasons. For example:

On a short trip, the time to climb can be longer than the en-route bit itself. For an instructor giving a 1-hour lesson, the student would be short-changed if the first 10 minutes was spent climbing. Anyone using MoGas will be limited to 6000' by PFA rules. Anyone flying cross-country using a Plog will find that they are behind schedule the whole way unless they treat the climb as a seperate segment, which might be off-putting for low-hours pilots or students. Some people prefer the view from lower down. Others prefer the increased sensation of speed from lower down. Then there's the fear that the clouds will build up and you'll be trapped on top of an 8/8 layer. The fact that things look different from higher up, and many people will never have seen that before (due to the reasons I gave earlier about instructors not wanting to waste time climbing) so may be put off by it. I'm sure there are more, too!

All good reasons. Some of them are good enough to out-weigh the advantages of climbing, others aren't... but the best thing that people like Lowtimer can do is keep quiet and let the rest of us fly low down, so that he can have the higher levels completely to himself! ;) :D

FFF
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[The Flashing Blade]

Being thoughtful about how you fly is not just about those on the ground. As a single engine helicopter pilot while I do my best to avoid disturbing those on the ground I am more concerned about myself. If I have engine failure where would I rather come down - built up area, lake, forest or nice clear area. With no glide to speak of I tend to skirt around the outside of these with the added benefit of keeping me away from NIMBYs and such like.