IR on Single engine

[jamup]

There are different ways to do IR training . as an example in US but in somecountries they do it on the Twin . So please let me know whats the different of these two. IS it cheaper to do it on the Single and then do a Twin checkride or else its better to do it on the Twin it self

What do airlines like .
James

[noblues]

Do it on a twin for initial issue, and do renewals on singles (I think up to 5 years, then must do another renewal on atwin).

[flyingfemme]

They do it on single engine in the US as well - the rating is an add-on to whatever licence you have and the checkride will be adapted to your own circumstances. If you take the IR checkride in a single you will have SEP/IR privileges. When (if) you do a multi checkride the examiner will include assymetric approaches and your IR will then have multi privileges.
Currency on an IR is a matter of keeping in practice or doing an ICC if you get out of currency. The FAA have no regular revalidation checkride requirements.

[Tinstaafl]

Different countries have different rules. In general an IR test done on a single will not be valid for multis (except non-asymmetric types eg C336/337. If you're authorised to fly one VFR then a S/E IR can cover it. Oz allows that, not sure about UK). An IR done on a twin usually gives S/E IR coverage as well. Perhaps not under JAR?

If you're tested on a single then you'll have to do another IR test on a multi to get multi-IR privileges.

As for cost, lengths of string come to mind. How much of the course would be in a synthetic trainer/sim/FNPT device, would it be a twin sim and at what rate vs. how much flying is done in a single and/or twin aircraft at what rate/approach & landing fees etc.?

[foghorn]

Under JAR, a multi-engine IR (IR-SPA-ME in JAR-ese) also confers single engine IR priviledges on the holder.

An IR on a multi-crew type, however, does not confer IR priviledges onto single-crew types, unlike the old UK system :(

[Keef]

Depends where you are, and which IR.

The JAA one is a lot of effort (too much classroom time for an oldie like me), so after a little thought, I didn't bother. It also has an annual renewal flight test. A friend of mine did the old CAA IR, and gave it up after a couple of years.

The FAA one has a biennial review (it's part of the BFR you do anyway), and an instrument currency requirement. That works better for me, but others have different views.

If you do your FAA IR on a single (not a problem), you can convert it to a multi at the same time as you do your multi-engine rating, and for not a lot more effort. I would recommend doing the FAA IR on a single, unless you already fly a multi. YMMV.

[Jhieminga]

Not every country is the same, even with the JAR in place.

Even though the JAR says that the holder of an IR-ME may fly SE on instruments too, a little quirk in the combination with the Dutch laws mean that I've got a licence with a Multi-engine Instrument rating but my SE is VFR only! :*

What's this like in other countries? I know the USA situation but what about other JAR states? :confused:

[rustle]

Jhieminga I know the USA situation but what about other JAR states?

UK:

IR-SPA-ME (JAR-speak for Instrument Rating-Single Pilot Aircraft-MultiEngine) gives all IR privileges to SEP provided your SEP rating is valid as well.

But it gives nothing for multi-crew aircraft, nor does a multi-crew IR give anything in single-pilot operations. (Logically)

Single-engine IR's do not automatically confer any additional privileges in MEPs at all - not even IMC-rating-equivalent status.

Bizzare as that sounds (the last bit) if you have an IMC rating, obtained by flying the IMC test in a single, that does give you IMC rated privileges in an MEP without a re-test/upgrade.

[foghorn]

If you keep your MEIR current on an aircraft its not hard to keep your SEP current also, since the MEIR renewal counts as 'Renewal by Test' for your SEP rating (yes even though it's not done in an MEP type).

So it means your annual MEP / MEIR renewal is also an SEP renewal, keeping the whole single pilot bit of your licence up to date (unless you fly a PA46 or other v. complex type of course).

[rustle]

I say there, foghorn :rolleyes:, is this right??

If you keep your MEIR current on an aircraft its not hard to keep your SEP current also, since the MEIR renewal counts as 'Renewal by Test' for your SEP rating (yes even though it's not done in an MEP type).

When did that change?

Used to be the "renewal by test" had to be in the same "class or type" - do I need to hit the books again, or have you got a reference in LASORs?

[foghorn]

Was told this by the IRRE who did my last renewal, and have had it confirmed by a second IRRE. In theory at least, they should know!

Haven't found it in the JARs or LASORS yet, but I haven't had a good dig in the former for it - I'll have a look next time I have a high boredom threshold :D

If it's not true I've been flying SEP illegally for a while, albeit with correctly-signed paperwork.

Added later:

Right, just looked in the JARs, and JAR-FCL 1.245(c) says

1. (An applicant for renewal of an SEP rating shall):

(i) within the three months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency check... with an Authorised Examiner [in the relevant class]

The square brackets in the above denote text added in the latest revision of the JARs, 01/07/03.

So it looks possible that it was a loophole that has now been closed by amending the JARs. So ignore what I said regarding doing the SEP revalidation test on an MEP type.

[RodgerF]

I have looked in the current LASORS and in Section E para E1.5 Important Note Para 3 It says

'SPA IR privileges are not type or class specific -the holder of more that one SPA type or class rating is required to re-validate the IR on only one SPA type or class (usually the most complex one). However, the holder of a ME IR must revalidate on a ME class or type.'

I think the confusion in the later posts in the thread comes from talking about the SEP rating itself and using renewal and revalidation interchangeably.

To revalidate an SEP class rating by experience one needs 12 hours in the last 12 months including a dual flight with an instructor. The dual flight requirement can be satisfied with any other flight for the grant, revalidation or renewal of a rating. In this case the MEIR holder can revalidate the IR, combine it with the MEP rating proficiency test and use the flight to get the one hour dual for SEP providing that they have or will have sufficient SEP experience when that rating expires.

If however one needs to revalidate the SEP rating by test then the discussion of the IR etc is not relevant and the proficiency test must be done in an SEP aircraft. The same goes if the SEP rating needs renewal, which must be by test in an SEP aircraft.