Two simple ATC questions!

[smithgd]

I've been listening to EGCC Approach today.....

1) What's the difference between "Aircraft-callsign, turn left radar heading 090" and "Aircraft-callsign, turn left heading 090"?

2) I understand what all the different frequencies are for ie TWR, APP, RAD but what is "Director" for? Is it just a second APP frequency?

TIA
smithgd

[vintage ATCO]

Radar heading . . . . , oh, don't get us going on that one again! :rolleyes: :D

Director is a radar service and yes, usually a no. 2 approach position.


VA

[mainecoon]

radar heading well vintage hit the nail on the cliche with that one

and manchester has up two three positions on approach
approach north for mirsi and rousun holds
approach south for the dayne hold
and final director to turn the aircraft onto final approach:cool:

[Scott Voigt]

The waste of the word radar <G>....

Scott

[ecj]

Smithgh,

In answer to your questions:

1. No difference whatsoever.

2. as already provided.

[tobzalp]

Its as useless as descend to and maintain


or with internal coordination the phrase 'with your concurrance"

[foghorn]

It doesn't add anything further to the answers given above, but for your information, I understand that the UK has filed a difference with ICAO that states that 'callsign DIRECTOR is used by certain radar arrivals approach control units' (or similar).

[smithgd]

Thanks

smithgd

[EGCC Rwy 24]

And while we are talking about Director....

... and probably better in Tech Log!

Why is reception of the Director so appalling (close to the 24R centreline)?? I'm sure it is my computer or something else like that interfering.

So much buzzing that the squelch never cuts out......

Odd!

[250 kts]

tobzalp,

I don't think "descend/climb and maintain" is useless if used in the right circumstances. I use it when there is traffic in the way to try to stop the inevitable request for further.

Not come across "concurrance" yet though!!!

[bagpuss lives]

EGCC Rwy 24 - we've had no reports of poor R/T coverage on 121.35MHz (unlike a certain other frequency I could mention ;) ) and it comes from the same Tx site as the other Approach freqs so maybe it's something your end?

[Andrew M]

Get the ATC Handbook like most other listeners :p

It also gives an explaination to Director, Radar, approach frequencies and so on too.

Isn't director the first approach frequency you would contact after leaving centre, who then puts you in order for landing EG: you are number # for landing.

Then you contact approach which is the final frequency until when you are established and you contact tower. Isn't that more correct ?

- Really what mainecoon said.

Don't know about radar - isn't that for aircraft flying within the airspace, but not actually inbound for the airport ?

1) What's the difference between "Aircraft-callsign, turn left radar heading 090" and "Aircraft-callsign, turn left heading 090"?

Not in a position to make a 100% confident answer here, but here goes: Radar heading is terminology to disguinish between magnetic heading - as they vary. However, as magnetic compasses are hardly used now, then the word heading without the term radar is often used.

EGCC Rwy 24 - Well, I live near EGPF, I see aircraft on final for rwy 23 and I get great reception. In actual fact, in my room I have one of those Velux windows that opens right out to be parallel with the horizon and the view is great. The reception is great too - except when 05 is in use. And that is hardly ever.

Just depends on your luck.

[ecj]

Andrew M

Why don't you arrange for a visit to Glasgow Airport - ATC.

I think a lot of the issues you ask about would become clear from a practical point of view.

Visit the local flying club as well, and perhaps consider buying a PPL book or two.

[vintage ATCO]

Andrew M, don't guess. . . . :rolleyes: :D

In the context of the way it was used, there is no difference between 'radar heading' and 'heading'. All headings issued by radar controller are magnetic headings, even if using a lodestone on the end of a piece of string.

I won't reherse the arguements about it. Do a search, it wasn't that long ago.


VA

[EGCC Rwy 24]

Andrew - thanks for the thought. Perhaps I need to move house from near EGCC to near EGPF. :D

NiteFlite - thanks for the pointer. Pretty much as I suspected then. Strangely though, it's not dependent on position in the house - and even with the roof mounted aerial it's still cr*p. I'm suspicious that it is something to do with intermediate frequencies in the internals of the scanner --- Tech Log here I come! I must get around to fixing a visit to come and see you chaps -- I've only been talking about it for three years -- who is it best to talk to??

Thanks

Nick Locke

Nick Locke's Reporting Points (http://www.NickLocke.co.uk/Points) (now with the first photos - POL and WHI)

[Andrew M]

:O

Hey as I said - it was a guess !

Visit the local flying club as well, and perhaps consider buying a PPL book or two.

Patience, and I will be :)

Perhaps I need to move house from near EGCC to near EGPF.

Or you could sell up and live in a tent in a field next to EGPF....

Now for something I know !

I improved my AM reception quite a lot by using the un-shielded wire you get with radio/cassette players. You know - you get the coax plug at the back of the unit, and a small piece of wire with a metal fitting at the end. I sliced off the top end of the "rubber duck" aerial, and soldered the end of the small unshielded wire to it.

Before doing this I couldn't receive the ATIS frequency, or tower. The wire was mounted vertically.

PS: Those wideband aerials that cover shortwave right up to around 900MHz are c**p really. A dedicated antenna would do the job much better.

And just to clear something up.... there is no difference between radar heading and heading - and controllers use magnetic headings.

Now to dig out that book I mentioned..... :rolleyes: :D

[flower]

AndrewM

With regards to Approach and Director positions the normal usage of them is as follows.

The Approach controller position is the frequency aircraft are usually handed to from the Centres.
Director or Final Director takes over from the Approach controller (who has done the intermediate approach for the Final Director) to position them for what ever type of approach the aircraft is doing, then the Director hands them to the Tower Controller

Hope that makes sense re-reading it Im still not entirely sure my language flows freely.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Makes sense to me ... nothing wrong with 'flowery' language ;)

[Andrew M]

thanks flower - so it is really what I said, in reverse.

and it was perfectly understandable :D