Runway distance available on landing

[Classic]

I may be being a bit dim here, but I have a question that I can't find the answer to in the manuals or my old ATPL notes.

On a recent landing on a shortish runway in the USA, I was planning to use the full length of the runway available to me, and I thought I could use the distance to go marker boards down the side to give me my awareness of speed versus runway length available. However, the runway had an inset threshold in the reciprocal direction. As we approached these piano keys, with plenty of black tarmac and continued runway lighting beyond, the captain insisted that I stop and turn off before we passed the piano keys, although the marker boards still showed 1500 feet to go from there. He said we could not use the runway beyond the piano keys (except in emergency as the stopway).

It was the end of a long flight so I didn't feel like discussing the point in depth and I accepted his judgement. I believed however that I could use the runway beyond the upcoming inset threshold and as shown by the marker boards until I reached the end of the runway as indicated by the red lights across the end of the tarmac. Who was right?

[This message has been edited by Classic (edited 13 November 2000).]

[cossack]

From an ATC viewpoint, there is no problem with using runway beyond the upwind end piano-keys if there is lighting and markings allowing you so to do.
On runways with displaced thresholds, the threshold can be hundreds of metres from the actual runway end and only displaced for landing operations in the opposite direction. Take off from a runway with a displaced threshold often takes place well before the piano keys. For example 31L @ JFK the distance from start of runway to displaced threshold is approx 1000 metres allowing enough distance for many aircraft to be actually airborne before the threshold.
So, in summary, as long as there is no lit or painted runway end markings before the end of the runway, then the whole of the runway is available for landing from that runway's threshold to the end. The second set of piano key markings you pass on landing I believe are irrelevant.

[Prof2MDA]

You can use that area for roll-out or taxi. Usually the displacement is for obstacle clearance. Not to be confused with chevron's, which indicate the surface is not suitable for normal ops.

[quid]

Classic-

He's wrong, you're right.

Drop a copy of Jeppesen Introduction section, page 157 in his mailbox.

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[Classic]

Thanks chaps, Ppruners strike another blow for truth and justice!