Air traffic controller's assistants

[Andrew M]

G'day fellow ATC fan's :D

Having applied for several jobs for office junior positions - and failed I might add - I would like to ask how you go about getting a job as a ATC assitant. I would like to be a full ATCO - but do not yet meet the age requirements.

So I figured instead of passing time until my 18'th birthday running about making tea & coffee for people in a dull office - which is completely irrelevant to aviation - I would be better running about doing "chores" for something that has some relevance to my future career!

Also, I suspect that when applying to NATS, if you have some previous ATC assistant (even admin work related to ATC) then you will get extra "brownie" points ?

Thanks,
Andrew

[bagpuss lives]

Just a quick reply to some of your questions....

Firstly ATSAs (Air Traffic Services Assistants) are recruited at unit level. That is, Heathrow will recruit their own ATSAs, Cardiff will recruit their own ATSAs and so on, so to apply you would need to write to the training sections at the respective unit - not NATS HQ.

The CATC in Bournemouth also employ loads of ATSAs as blip drivers - so don't forget there if you are planning to apply.

Most recruitment for ATSAs these days seems to come internally though, with people moving from one post to the next and failed ATCO cadets covering the gaps. It seems jobs in the ATSA grade are hard to come by at the moment. It wouldn't do you any harm though, if you're interested, to bang off your CV and a nice covering letter to wherever you're interested in - regardless of whether you have any prior experience or not.

Of course, should you get an interview or assessment for an ATSA post any relative previous experience would be taken into account. But not having worked in aviation before will not preclude you from becoming employed if you have the aptitude, knowledge and enthusiasm.

We all had to start somewhere and quite a few of the ATCO cadets are ex-assistants.

Good luck! :)

[Andrew M]

Thanks a lot for your reply - I'll certainly be dropping off a letter to my local tower.

But age wouldn't really be a factor would it ? - I would be 17 when starting.

I would say that I have the enthusiasm, proberly the aptitude - and the enthusiasm drives my interest to learn anyway. Proberly the main reason for wanting to do this is because I don't think NATS would be quite so keen to take me as soon as I turn 18 - and I've never worked before.

This means I will have work experience - and it's related. Great ! :)

(Edited for spelling)

[Andrew M]

After running a search on these forums of Assistants and ATSA's I found out this :-

* Some ATSA's are very lowly paid - I seen even around £10,000 mentioned. I know this is PPRuNe (Rumour) so is this true ?

- The pay doesn't bother me - but this is around the same as office junior positions - so they are looking for young 'uns like me then ?

* NATS take ATSA's from those that fail ATCO courses and internally (as said here).

- So I should apply to non NATS towers ? Just to confirm, my local Glasgow Tower is controlled by NATS right ?

Would GA strip Cumbernauld be looking for an ATSA (even Prestwick) ?

Oh - I cannot find the address for Glasgow Tower ANYWHERE. If somebody could PM me it - that would be great.

With thanks,
Andrew

[BALIX]

Andrew

Answering some of your latest questions:

Glasgow ATC is indeed NATS.

Prestwick tower is non-NATS

ATSA's are also employed by NATS at Atlantic House (Scottish Air Traffic Control Centre) in Prestwick.

No idea as to the vacancy situation, however.

[Andrew M]

Thanks BALIX

RE: Vacancy situation -

Always worthwhile sending off a CV and letter like niteflight said.

[1261]

I'm not sure about the situation at Glasgow but Edinburgh is very short of assistants at the moment so it may well be worth dropping us a line (I'll PM you the address and who to speak to). Do bear in mind, however, that (as mentioned above) most ATSA vacancies are filled internally - the last advertised posts at Edinburgh attracted applications from far and wide, but all internal.

The last time I was at Prestwick they certainly still had assistants, but as BALIX says, by far the largest employer of assistants in Scotland is Scottish Centre.

Just a note: don't confuse Prestwick Airport with Scottish Centre - NATS provides airport ATC at Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen but not at Prestwick. Scottish Centre just happens to be at Prestwick (squeezed in between the airport industrial park and a local housing estate).

[Molesworth Hold]

It may be of some interest to any ATC “Wannabes” that at most RAF airfields there are a few MOD employed Air Traffic Assistants. The pay is awful and there are no prospects but it might just be the first foot on the ladder.

[Andrew M]

Thanks folks - I searched career information sites - I can find info for ATCO's - but not ATSA's. Your help has helped answer my questions, and the letters will be getting sent out shortly.

[bagpuss lives]

ATC Assistant pay with NATS starts at about 13 - 14k if I remember correctly (that's the ATSA 1 scale)

[BALIX]

Andrew

Good luck with the application :ok:

[Andrew M]

Ta, - let's just hope age doesn't discriminate against me.

[flower]

Andrew,
are you still continuing your A level studies or is it Highers in Scotland, I see you said you wanted to become an ATCO. I believe they like you to have studied A levels .
I would hate to see you miss out by giving up on your education now, as I know from Chat how keen you are to become an ATCO.

[Andrew M]

Correct - it is highers in Scotland.

I've did four highers this year - still to find out results though :eek: :confused: - and another business education module equal to a NQ.

I was considering going back for a sixth year - but it would be a waste of time as.....

1. There is a lack of advanced higher subjects (don't know what that is down south) at my "education establishment".

2. There is also a lack of other subjects I could study at higher level next year. I need a timetable of a minimum of 4 subjects - if I was to pass all subjects this year - I can only find 3 other highers to do next year.

3. I would therefore need to take a Intermediate level qualifacation - equal to a GSCE. A total waste of time.

4. Going into the world of work would be better for me overall - to provide that although I have the required education (NATS minimum of 3 highers) - I need to prove not only I have the interest and motivation towards aviation - but the simple fact that I am not a lazy person and I have a basic aptitude for work in general.

University is a option yes - but .... one of the highers I missed out on was Maths. :ugh: I only got a grade 3 - the lowest grade I got across the whole board of qualifacations - as it is my weakest subject. That means if I did take it up this year, I would need to do it at intermediate level - not high enough for uni :*

I've tried vocational training posts for accountancy - applied for around 4 - not got those either. Proberly could be because the lack of motivation towards the subject. It is incrediably boring.

So, therefore a office junior position would give me spare cash for training towards my PPL, until I am 18 then I apply for NATS. This is my last hope, before becoming a desk jockey.

best regards,
andrew

PS: Sorry about the life story :D

[chiglet]

AFAIK,
ATSA1s are "locally" recruited. ATSA2,3,4 are [and always have been] a "mobile" grade. Hence the several incomming ATSAs to EGCC.
If you get taken on as an ACPO/ATSA1 and are "lucky" enuff to get promoted, you coud go "anywhere". Mind you, I did 14 months at Brum and 33 years at Manch:ok:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Andrew M]

I guess ATSA1 is the starting grade ?

And thanks, chiglet

best regards,
andrew

[bagpuss lives]

Yes the ATSA1 grade is the "entry" grade and also the grade of the ACPOs - blip drivers who act as pseudo pilots on the simulators. A good foot in the door ;)

[BDiONU]

Just a point to note for anyone Dahn Souf.

Swanwick Ops room ATSA's are generally recruited from the Swanwick ACPO ATSA 1's. Those ACPO's are then generally replaced by ACPO's from Bournemouth (pay is greater at Swanwick) and then its down to Bournemouth to externally recruit.

[monkfish]

"Yes the ATSA1 grade is the "entry" grade and also the grade of the ACPOs - blip drivers who act as pseudo pilots on the simulators. A good foot in the door "

Gotta agree. I know of several 'Blippys' at LTCC who have gone on to take cadetships. One of them is now a GS.

[Scott Voigt]

Wow, at our facilities we have some contract labor who helps out the training dept. at the centers. They are all retired controllers. The rest of the folks that we use for ghost pilots are just plain old controllers who we can scrounge off of the floor, or who are not in possesion of a medical at the moment...

regards

Scott

[airac]

I seem to remember the age thing i.e eighteen and over is because of the shift work invovled:confused:

[ATCO1987]

Hello.
Im currently 16 y/o will be going to college in Sept to do a BTEC in travel and tourism. I'm aiming to become an ATCO but I dunno if I'll get the qualifications and it will be awkward going Bristol>Bournemouth all the time. So I was thinking of going in as an ATCA at EGGD, because I know they eventually train some of their ATCA's to be ATCO's. (I use the phrase ATCA, VATSIM thing). What are the qualifications required and also minimum age requirements to become an air traffic control assistant?
Thanks.
Dan.

[Andrew M]

I'm also a VATSIM "controller" - wouldn't relate any terms or whatsoever with real controlling though. They are two different ball games - but still good for keeping interest - and basic skills I suppose too.

- After all, there is real ATCO's using the VATSIM too.

I think the main idea of going to Bournemouth for the college of ATC, is that you stay there in rented accomodation, rather than commuting. I am in Glasgow, so therefore I wouldn't fancy commuting :D .

I don't know the exact age requirement, I would be interested in this too. Also, as for education requirements, NATS ask for Highers/A levels (or equivilent - NVQ/SVQ is ok!) completed to exam level ie: you don't need to pass; as long as you have evidence you sat the whole course.

(NOTE: The scottish Higher has a D grade - which means you passed all internal assessments, but failed the actual exam. I'm guessing this is what they mean by study to exam level)

So ATSA, or ATCA (you say tom-ate-toe, I say tomato type thing), would require less than that - just the aptitude to learn ATC and perform to a satisfactory level - and show the potential to be a fully fledged ATCO eventually.

RE: The age thing - because of the shift work ??? I thought any age restiction would be to ensure a standard level of maturity is met. There is a set age restriction for ATCO's as we know (for NATS), but if the ATC at an airport is "independant" of NATS = EG: Prestwick, then wouldn't that be at their own discretion ?

PS: Your BTEC would be at the same level or above the level of an A-level/Higher, so I expect that would count as your period of study through to exam level. It is also a back-up to fall back on if you don't pass the NATS assessments - even if you fail the NATS course after that then there is still the chance of employment - hey, you did do well to get that far, so you must still be of use to NATS even before you start the course.

A borderline fail/pass would get you a ATCA post with NATS I expect, or a job as a blip-driver. (There is the VATSIM thing coming in :) )

All the best,
Andrew

[ATCO1987]

Thanks Andrew. My BTEC is apparently equivalent to 3 A-levels and yes ATC do accept them. A fellow VS ATCO eh!? Where do you control and whats your rating? I control Bristol Radar all the time, Im STU+, Also Im Dan Adams, you'l probably know me for being the most short tempered ;).
Thanks for your info.
Dan.

[Andrew M]

I do EGPF Tower - a lowly Student 1 :p

Never flew in your area - I stick to controlling more often, as it's the most realistic.

And no problem about the help.

[ATCO1987]

Ello, Rightey o, I like controlling more too! Much better. Though listening on my scanner the Bristol initial departure levels appear to have Changed, I will be starting a new topic to make sure these are permanent as Im getting no E-mail reply's from the guys at Bristol ATCU. doh! lol.

[flower]

ATCO 1987 , yep they have changed as of today

Cardiffs delegated Function has been expanded upwards and outwards hence the change in levels for Bristols traffic.

[Andrew M]

ATCO1987 -

From my own experience of what the ATC people think of VATSIM, it isn't good to email direct to them asking questions about procedures and so on. I expect that the people on the other end of the email may tire of answering our questions all the time :) .

Those that know fully of the online simulator (which has members of over 50,000 by the way - had more than proon at one point) are tolerant, but some are sick of being pestered.

When you say a new topic, I'm hoping you mean on the VATSIM forums, as compared to here, as it may be frowned upon.

What do the ATCO's think of being quizzed for our V irtual A ir T raffic SIM ulation needs ?

I would ask the other more experienced virtual ATC within VATSIM who have contacts/friends who do it for real anyway.

[ATCO1987]

Hrmm...I give the EGGD ATCO's a rest sometimes :P. lol. Thanks also to flower again for all the info provided.
Dan.

[ThredNedul]

I have heard on the rumor mill (but belived quite genine), that both Swanwick and Bournemouth will shortly be recruiting externally for Aircraft Control Position Operators (or "blip" drivers). This is an excellent job, and gives you an insight of ATC Operations and procedures, and puts you in a very good position to apply for an Ops Room Assistant at a later stage.
With regards to pay, you can expect to start off on about £15k (although Swanwick also offers about £3k Unsocial Hours Payment, due to the shift pattern).

I would certainly recommend the job to anyone interested in developing a career in ATC.

[watchingbrief2000]

There is an EXTERNAL recruitment being done at the moment for ATSA 1 simulator drivers at the London Terminal Control Centre.

Suggest you phone the human resources dept at West Drayton for more details.

Good Luck.

[Thames virtual]

ATCO1987, If you really want to be an ATCO I wouldn't go round describing yourself as short tempered. ATCO have to be cool, calm and collected under pressure, surely? and certainly the ones I listen to are. You won't want to get yourself a reputation even before you write your application :ooh:

TV
(SLF and simmer)

[ATCO1987]

Hello,
Im only really short tempered on VATSIM because obviously it isnt real life and you get a lot of muppet pilots come on who dont have a clue what theyre doing, I'd be fine in real life because everyone understands hehe ;).
Dan.

[LXGB]

ATCO 1987,
Trust me they do not!


:ugh: :cool:

LXGB :)

[Gonzo]

And frankly can you blame them for not understanding sometimes? In what might be their fourth or fifth language, poor radio quality, and some ATCOs giving three or four instructions at once.

[Scott Voigt]

ATCO 1987;

And those VATSIM pilots are different from some of the real ones how????

<G>

Scott

[ATCO1987]

Oh yes they are! I had a newbie today who didnt know what "pass your message" meant. In real life you rarely get pilots who actually dont know what theyre doing and think they can do what they want. This happens on VATSIM unfortunately.
Dan.

[Andrew M]

Although we are not all amateurs !

We have real pilots that fly online too :D

who didnt know what "pass your message" meant

I'm sure our real world counterparts get their fair share of "dummies", but that just takes the biscuit ! ;)

[ATCO1987]

Indeed Andrew lol. A lot of the dimwits in real life are foreigners who struggle with english, though most are pretty good anyway. You'll always get the odd one no matter what theyre nationality!

[rodan]

In real life you rarely get pilots who actually dont know what theyre doing and think they can do what they want.

You might want to revise your thoughts on this matter. I've had real life pilots who have had problems understanding the following:

'Pass your message'
'Report field in sight'
'Say again'

and especially:

'Stand by'

These people are not idiots. They are usually low hours ppl's or learners trying their best with an alien language and confusing procedures. And, believe it or not, there are hundreds of them about! And they have to be dealt with calmly and helped as much as you would any other pilot, in fact, they probably require your help more than most.

[Connex]

Having read all of the postings on this topic to date, and as a serving NATS ATSA, it is rather disheartening to note the "negative" bias contained in the original posting and some of the subsequent replies with regard to the grade and its function. We do not do "chores", nor do we "all have to start somewhere". For some, a career as an ATSA (and no more) is perfectly acceptable and rewarding. The ATSA function, where it is employed, is as important a role within the ATC environment as any ATCO function - we may only be a small piece of the engine that is Air Traffic Control, but take it away, and the engine stops. FACT!!

The current system is designed to work using both ATSA and ATCO personnel. Until technology supercedes the ATSA function, it would be very welcoming to the ATSA grades if this was accepted and recognised by ALL who work with us. We ATSAs may not be sitting in the "hotseats", and our role in the workplace may seem to be of little importance to some ATCOs, but we play our part regardless. We do not seek praise for the duties we undertake, however much of a "chore" they may seem - just the acknowledgement that our part in the ATC environment may not be glamorous, but it is equally relevant nevertheless.

To Andrew M - good luck with your career in ATC, but don't sign up as an ATSA if chores are all you think we are about. And to all you ATCOs out there - remember that "ATCO" is an abbreviation of your job title - it does not mean "superior", nor does it confer on you any superiority over the ATSA grade, however much you'd like to think so.

[DC10RealMan]

I would agree wholeheartedly with Connex post, except in one small point. We are not ATCOs, ATSAs, ATCEs etc but we are all EMPLOYEES who come under the demeaning title of Operational Resources.

[ATCO1987]

I would also agree with Connex, On my visits to the Bristol Control Tower, I noticed that in a way the ATSA's are running around like headless chickens to help the ATC system, if thats a correct way of putting it. My point is, Ive never seen their job as a chore, but exactly the same as what DC10RealMan said. They do a lot to help the controllers and to help the atc system run smoothly. Going back to the start of my reply, about the Bristol ATSA's, maybe I exagerated slightly but tis true that they were working quite hard when I was there. Ive seen the same on ATC Documentaries too.
Dan.

[I'm not joking sir]

Top call Connex!

There are many ATCOs out there who know that they've had their skins saved by an ATSA at some point in their careers. I've also heard some arsey cadets be told that "the ATSAs can break you if you treat them like that". Extreme maybe but...

[Vercingetorix]

ATCOs / ATSAs - Pilots / Navigators - Surgeons/ Theatre nurses.
All are essential to the team.

[Spank me baby!!!]

Theatre Nurses....mmm.... ATSA's.....:p

(once had a gorgeous, short, blonde babe who wore the shortest mini-skirt and a pair of stilleto's and would climb up the little step ladder to draw up a Tropical Cyclone on the wall chart.... the whole room would turn around...:p )

[Hornblower]

ATSA'S are well respected professionals and essential to the safe and smooth (most of the time) running of the Air Traffic Services.

I wonder how many private (and to that matter, Professional) pilots realise that the helpful, patient, and knowledgeable person
operating London Information is an ATSA, and not ,as most people think, an ATCO sitting in front of a radar screen.

NATS is not staffed purely by ATCO's (it's not in their job reference to replace a radar head, update computer hardware, or hoover the floor). But that said, from a pilots perspective, the quality of the ATCO's from ground, tower, approach, terminal and area radar, are second to none.

Great job guys

Any chance of a radar information service from Essex Radar???

(Keep dreaming!!!)

:ok:

[Vercingetorix]

Spank me baby
sounds like a perfect day