RYANAIR.......WHY SO FAST!! (Seemingly)

[Captain Numpty]

An observation if I may..........

Having just returned from honeymoon (Howth) Dublin, I was amazed when my wife happened to comment that she thought the Ryanair 73's seem to be flying very fast when compared to EI and other airlines on the same approach into Dublin.

As local guys will know, Howth is on the approach into Dub RWY 28. In respect of this, are Ryanair drivers exceeding their speed limits here? As a point of interest, when we arrived at Dub, one of our Pilot's, presumably the Skipper actually shutdown both engines, as we rolled towards the gate........Safe practice, ummmmmm???!!!

Before we left, we watched a few buses landing on 28. Again, even my wife commented that the Ryanair 73's were taxing at ridiculous speeds!!!

Even on our return, I clocked a very young looking F/O performing a walk around on another departing flight. Suffice to say, it was laughable, it took him all of 1.5 mins!!! He didn't even look up to check the control surfaces, he kicked the front tyre, not even looking inside the gear bays, and just tapped the port engine cowling, let alone checking the starboard engine.......However, I can report that the F/O our return flight was far more thorough, and just as well!! Now forgive me, but complacency may cost nothing, but lives do.

At the end of the day, surely it's better to get somewhere late, than never!!.................

Please slow down guys, forget what the management targets are about and the demands these put on you all and get back to the safe and professional practices that you were trained in from day one.

Cheers & all the best.
C.N. (& his wife LOL!) :ok:

[mrsmaryhinge]

I know for a fact Ryanair fly very fast approaches into DUB. I operate into there occasionally from LGW, and on one occasion we had a line up clearance cancelled after the ATCO reported an aircraft at 13 miles out doing 300 knots! We waited, and sure enough a Ryanair 737 came into view on the approach.

I believe a lot of their guys manange the energy differently on the approach, in that they dive off the height, get down to say 3000 feet, and then lose the speed when level before intercepting the glide. Fair enough I guess providing its safe, but the risk of a rushed approach is a lot higher.

[Fly Star]

Capt. Numpty,

same comment about turnaround time. We saw a Ryanair 737-800 in front of us arriving on stand. Passengers got off in a few minutes. Then I saw a Cabin Crew sitting on her crew seat through the left foward door for 2 or 3 minutes after the last pax got off.

Then the boarding started... So in 2 or 3 minutes, the crew completed a cabin security check and cleaned the aircraft, for all the 180 seats!!! And that with one of them sitting on her crew seat !!!
;) :) :ok:

Pretty good, I thought...

MOL keeps on boasting himself on his on time performance compared to other operators, but is it really safe?

I was in STN following a Ryanair aircraft after landing. My company is very strict about taxi speed. And we saw the Ryanair aircraft "disappearing" in the horizon... Before we arrived on stand.

Do they get bonuses if they are on time or what? I would be interested to know... That could explain a few things...

[JW411]

Dear God, don't you people ever get tired of going over and over the same half-informed/ill-informed claptrap?

This subject has already been done to death a dozen times on pprune.

[hobie]

one could always take a train ...... no one ever complains about slow trains !!!!!! ......

I some times think Danny must have a "heart of gold" and the "patience of a saint" !!!!

cheers .... hobie

[Captain Numpty]

JW411......

Comment all noted, however if this is so boring to you......why are you reading it, let alone making a sarcy posting!!

FYI, my wife is not a Pilot, and she is the one who happened to notice this.......Doesn't that say something about what members of the public/ spectators are seeing???

C.N. :*

[My names Turkish]

my wife is not a Pilot

Yes.

Doesn't that say something about what members of the public/ spectators are seeing???

No.

[BEagle]

People have sometimes alleged that RyanAir taxy speeds are a bit quick.

But have you ever been in a Eurowings ATR72 'taxying' from the easternmost parking slot at Frankfurt to the southerly runway.....? Unbelievable!!

Err, that's real Frankfurt, Mo'L, not that place in the Mosel.

Sorry Danny ;)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Ryanair do have an enviable safety record though.

WWW

[stargazer02]

Your profile says you are a pilot....
a pilot of what??? no ratings???
If you knew anything of flying you would know that aircraft on an approach are speed restricted generally for spacing.
Also from the ground to the un trained eye the aircraft may look faster than you think and as you say "your wife is not a pilot" so she wouldn't have a trained eye in relation to aircraft.

Taxi speeds yes perhaps a bit fast but then again the air traffic ground controller would definately advise any aircraft taxiing at a high speed that would seem to be dangerous.....again the trained eye....sitting in the back of a B737 looking out the side window it may look fast...but what was their actual speed??
Were you jump seating to observe...

Shutting down one engine taxiing in.....well in the US it is very common to see aircraft taxiing out to the holding point and in to the gate on just 1 engine to conserve fuel.
Just how far were you from the blocks position when the captain shut down the second...again a view from the side window doesn't tell you much.

Now on to the age of pilots.....well some may look very young but they will have passed all the necessary requirements set down by the department i.e. the IAA and have to pass tests every so often and are subject to ramp checks too.......but being a pilot yourself im sure you knew that already!!!
As for a walk around....well most pilots will do a light walkaround because the aircraft engineers will have already checked the required areas.....it is they who sign the Tech log book which is counter signed by the Captain....but then again being a pilot you knew that already!!!

You just have a grudge against FR it seems perhaps they lost your bags on you???
This is a rubbish post from you anyways......why did i reply well i just wanted you to read what REALLY goes on in the REAL world...but then again being a PILOT you knew that already!!!!
Go back to your anorak
:cool: ;) :cool:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Taff, Air New Zealand had an enviable safety record until Mt Erebus, as did the Titanic until she was driven at full speed into an iceberg...

And Stargazer. "Light walkround" What the hell is that???????? Never heard of it in 20 yrs flying. Failure to do a proper walkround is a hanging offence in any aviation circle I've ever been in, so I hate to think where you got that one from.

Engineers sign your tech log? Maybe they do sign for the walkround if you are lucky enough to have engineers to do that at every stop, but they sure as hell don't sign acceptance for the airplane, again I've never heard of anyone accepting without one or other of the pilots doing their own. if you don't get engineers every stop (as in my Co) then do you have two different walkrounds? One proper one, and one token one, sorry, "Lite" walkround when you trust someone else has done your life-saver for you? Do you say to the FO, "Oh, Bloggs, do us a Walkround Lite please?".

FR taxi high speed? We all know it is a company characteristic. Anywhere they operate people point them out as they hurtle past on a regular basis. Maybe they are on "on time" bonus. If so its a bloody risky policy. I'd hate to see their lawyers try to wriggle out of the subsequent lawsuit in the event of a taxy accident if that is the case.
I frequently watch them on approach at a major UK field, and it is plain to see on almost every approach that FR deploy gear and flaps 15 at least a mile beyond where every other 737 does. That is not imagined. Go sit abeam 4 mile finals somewhere for an hour or so and watch it happen. It is NOT a myth.

Shutting down both and coasting onto a stand? I'd have thought that a gross breach of good airmanship and a hanging offence too even in a flying club environment. To do it in a public transport aeroplane seems unbelieveable. Again, maybe I've led a sheltered life in Europe, but I've never heard of taxiing out on one engine "to save fuel". Shutting one down on the way in has been mooted on occasion but again I've never actually seen or heard it done. Why? Save a 3 litres of gas perhaps?

As you said, Stargazer, there is the real world that incorporates Professionalism and good airmanship and there is an environment infested with cowboys. Which one do you aspire to?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Given FRA's shorthaul high density sectors I think it likely that they have already well outstripped Air NZ's take off and landing tally and thus arguably have a better safety record - if thats how you choose to measure it and many do.

The Titanic has the worst safety record of any man made mass transportation device.

So I don't see your point. I'm no great fan of Ryanair but I think it unfair when people hurl safety related criticism at them when they have a damn fine safety record built over a lot of busy sectors, through busy airspace to sometimes minimal facility destinations.

Anyway, I always thought it was going too slowly in aeroplanes that was dangerous...?!

WWW

[Agaricus bisporus]

No mate, nothing wrong with the Titanic as a mass transportation system at all. She was a ship, one of the safest systems we have, and a fine one at that.

One individual incident does not indicate much, if anything about safety, any more than a lack of incidents does. She was far, far safer than any before her and was as unsinkable as the technology of the day could make her. Even by todays standards she was proof against all but the most extreme of circunstances, yet fate took charge as we all know. The failure in the Titanic case was human, operational. The Captain drove her at an utterly irresponsible speed for the prevailing conditions,lifeboat drills were virtually ignored and design re insufficient lifeboats contributed also. Nothing wrong with the ship, any more tan the DC10 wa at fault at Mt Erebus. It wa the sloppy procedures in the company that caused the crash. Was Air NZ "safe" before the accident, and "unsafe" afterwards? Hell no! The procedures made the operation inherently more hazardous than it needeed to have been.

If a company encourages ot ignores high speed taxying then it clearly exposes itself to more risk than one that does not. Do they/don't they? Use your eyes. The answer is plain to all.

Fast approaches? Just go sit abeam 4 mile finals and watch where different coloured 737s configure gear and flap 15. What you'll see is pretty clear, from my experience of observation. There is one colour combination that does it a mile closer to the field than everyone else. Who do you reckon they are?

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Does anyone have a view about the rights or wrongs of using short bursts of reverse thrust as a braking device while taxi-ing and even coming to a stop on the ramp ? I have seen this from on board a Ryanair 737-200 at Stansted (but only once, a few years back). I am myself neither particularly for nor against Ryanair.

As for the Titanic, it was indeed a pretty safe vessel for its day, or should have been. It sank due to a whole range of human factors shortcomings, of the sort that usually lead to major air disasters. The primary ones were the decision not to have enough lifeboats and a certain human pride in trying to make a faster than planned crossing. The old Swiss cheese theory.

[EGGPOPS]

Frs coming into EGGP had to be warned to slow down on taxi as we were sick of scraping the rubber off the 27 ret
Seems to have done the trick as its very rare to see a speeding Ryanair these days

[Captain Numpty]

Stargazer

Your comments, some of which I found to be sarcastic and offensive are duly noted.

With regards to my personnel details, they are exactly that! I have no need to share these here, or particularly with folk like you. However, for the avoidance of any doubt, and to enlighten YOU a little further, I am currently on the B-777, and have held various ratings on other types too........However, lets not forget my friend that size doesn't matter, or does it to you?????

"BIG THINGS START SMALL" little boy.

Anyway, get a life wannabe, as me thinks you are possibly just a FR driver (with an attitude to add) who is probably p.o.'d with the industry constantly having a go?? As I mentioned it was just an observation and nothing more than that.


Suffice to say, no offense intended, goodnight.

C.N.

[Burger Thing]

This entire threat is totally laughable. And when people start to write and compare the Titanic with Ryanair and even state that the Titanic was a safe mass transportation device (disregarding any scientific findings about used steel quality, design faults, lack of life rafts, etc...) it makes me real wonder.... :yuk:

JW411 sumarized it all.

[eng123]

This whole post is laughable.Any excuse to bash Ryanair! Listen people...facts- our safety record is perfect.Nobody can question that.Our procedure's are proper and within all the legal regulations.The pilot's are proffesional and do their job properly.Oh,I nearly forgot to say,our engineering is top class!!

What is all this b/s about putting the gear down 1 mile later than everybody else? For what advantage? Do you honestly believe the approach speeds flown by RYR are so tight that it would require this,consistently,every flight? Don't you all see that the RYR pilots are trained in exactly the same manner as pilot's of other airlines and hold the same licences and qualifications and operate to the same/similar company procedure's?

As for the fella saying that his flight needed reverse thrust in order to stop during the taxi! You don't know what you are talking about.You obviously have absolutely no idea so why comment on something when you are clearly not in the position to do so? Anyone that has taxied a -200 will tell you how effective the wheel brakes are.I must admit I have only taxied empty aircraft but let me tell you that if you operate the brakes with anything more than a gentle push with the toes then the thing will stop immediatly.Just how effective do you think reverse thrust would be at a ground speed of 20-30 knots with the engine at idle?
Could it not have been that the crew were cycling the reverser on the taxi-in to check an inication fault or something?

This is a question,yes,I have seen the crew shut down the engines 10ft or so before the stop bar and coast to a stop but why would this be such a henious crime? I can think of no reason and would be interested to see if there is one.To my mind,the APU would obviously be running so no probs with electrical power so elec hyd pumps are working for brake pressure [ignoring the accumulator],packs still supplied by APU air,obviously no more requirement for forward thrust so what possible purpose is there for having the engines running? Would like to hear any reason's I have overlooked.

As for the Titanic....0% despatch reliability me thinks,well OK 100% despatch reliability but 0% arrival reliability:)

[JW411]

Captain Numpty:

I find it quite amazing that a pilot rated on a 777 was unable to explain to his wife that the speed at which aircraft fly the approach to runway 28 at Dublin past Howth is in fact regulated by Dublin ATC and not by Ryanair.

I have lost count of the number of times that I have been sent down to 2000 ft and asked by Dublin ATC to maintain high speed as long as possible on this approach. It is not a problem. They are in charge of the spacing and as long as it is safe, I am happy to oblige.

I have said this before but I'm going to say it again. Can you or your wife put your hands on your hearts and swear that you have never exceeded 30 mph when driving in a 30 mph speed limit? As far as I am aware, Ryanair have never injured or killed a single person whilst taxying. On the other hand, people just like you and me kill hundreds of pedestrians every year. Do I detect a whiff of hypocrisy?

In my company we do a comprehensive walkround before the first flight. On subsequent quick turnarounds the manufacturers and the company deem it sufficient to look at the engines, brakes, wheels and tyres and check for obvious leaks and airframe damage.

Finally, I am surprised that you, as a 777 driver would even consider taking your dearly beloved on honeymoon by Ryanair. Don't you get paid? In any event you certainly know how to show a young lady a good time!

[foundation digger]

What is the Problem with fast taxiing ?

Common in the states, so long as corners are taken at the appropriate speed.

High speed turnoffs are allowed at 45 knts.

Aircraft land and take-off in straight lines up to 150 knts, and some are even permitted to land in crosswinds , not aligned with the runway centerline.

Remember fast walking pace, or was that for tiger moth.

[Spitoon]

Sorry stargazer, but things must be very different on your side of the pond. Whilst I am not qualified to talk of piloting things I have to raise an eyebrow or two at some of your comments. But when it comes to ATC, then I'm in my element.

There are few rules about taxi speed - I suspect professionalism is usually sufficient to ensure that taxi speeds are kept appropriate to the situation (and that means for all aircraft in the area). Although controllers may think to themselves 'that looks a bit fast', in most cases they will not intervene unless there is some immediate danger.

Your attitude seems to be 'I'll see what I can get away with and if it's a bit dangerous someone will tell me'.

Like I say, things seem different on your side of the pond ... and not for the better.

[chargreen int]

:cool: yes ryanair a/c taxi at very high speeds far in excess of what they are supposed i see it reguarly from the twr we don't mind ,yes they fly fast app's and sometimes it helps i have never seen a fr pilot go around for that reason ,and yes i have heard of a/c who taxi with one engine off have seen on some aerodrome plates the ref:747 a/c taxi only with engines 2+3 running due jet blast.surely with the apu on its providing hydraulic and electrical power i.e. brakes to stop before the end of the stand.and yes i have seen fr pilots use reverse on taxiways it's kicked up a lot of dust from w.i.p. and we have commented.:ok:

[timzsta]

Sadly it is catching on. Walked down the steps on the jetbridge on A14L at EGSS this week, and saw a Buzz 146 "ID" blast past in the blink of an eyelid. Oh thats right, Buzz are now part of Ryanair arent they.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

<<<
As for the fella saying that his flight needed reverse thrust in order to stop during the taxi! You don't know what you are talking about.You obviously have absolutely no idea so why comment on something when you are clearly not in the position to do so? Anyone that has taxied a -200 will tell you how effective the wheel brakes are.I must admit I have only taxied empty aircraft but let me tell you that if you operate the brakes with anything more than a gentle push with the toes then the thing will stop immediatly.Just how effective do you think reverse thrust would be at a ground speed of 20-30 knots with the engine at idle?
Could it not have been that the crew were cycling the reverser on the taxi-in to check an inication fault or something?
>>>

Oh, God, I'm so sorry. I merely asked a polite question, which you finally got around to answering at the end (yes, this sounds plausible), after burying me in the previous paragraph.

[mainfrog2]

Too true GCC there seems to be a tendancy to shoot then answer questions later as if in some sanctimonious, points scoring exercise.

It would be nice to just get a few merely expalantory answers occasionally.

[unwiseowl]

So how much extra are they spending on tyres and brakes? Or is that where the reversers come in?

[chiglet]

GCC,
Many moons ago, I watched a BOAC VC10 stop on stand by using reverse thrust:ok: . Granted, the taxyway and stand hadn't been de-iced properly, but it HAS happened . i was there.
Aviation is a funny business in more ways than one:D
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[kriskross]

Quoting from the 737 ( which Ryanair operate ) FCTM, page 2.5, 737-600 - 737-900, 'normal taxy speed is 20kts, adjusted for conditions. On long straight taxi routes, speeds up to 30 kts are acceptable, however at speeds greater than 20 kts use rudder pedal steering only. When approaching a turn, speed should be slowed to an appropriate speed for conditions. On a dry surface, use approximately 10 kts'.

This is straight from Boeing, 30kts on the emergency runway at LGW can feel quite slow, but on a narrower taxyway quite fast.

Reverse thrust, again I quote, 'During taxy.... the use of reverse thrust above reverse idle is not recommended due to the possibility of FOD.... Idle reverse thrust may be necessary on slippery surfaces to control speed while taxying'.

[AlanM]

I know for a fact Ryanair fly very fast approaches into DUB. I operate into there occasionally from LGW, and on one occasion we had a line up clearance cancelled after the ATCO reported an aircraft at 13 miles out doing 300 knots! We waited, and sure enough a Ryanair 737 came into view on the approach

but that is the radar controllers "mistake". Surely soemthing like "Speed 180kts or less" from 20 miles would have helped you get airborne!

don't they use speed control in DUB? or maybe the Approach guys like stitching up there tower controllers!!!

[Petrolhead]

FWIW, I too have seen Ryanair shut both engines down while taxying in.

Eng123 asked if it was a henious (heinous?) crime to do this, well it isn't the safest way to operate an aircraft. At least with an engine running you have a hydraulic pump backing up the accumulator.

Petrolhead

[Loose rivets]

We could do an abbreviated walk-round and ignore the buffeting and stresses of the last sector as a possible cause of making things come loose. Most of us could even arrive on stand with the walk round completed before the engines had stopped. We could ignore every bit of airmanship that we had learned over the last 40 years in the name of profit. I'm not pointing at any particular operator, but to say that it doesn't happen is the ultimate in denial. To say that some pilots, often at home base, are not encouraged to keep the pedal to the metal by ATC till one inch from touchdown is perhaps the penultimate in denial.

There is a very fine line between a good company man - nifty pilot - fine handler of planes.......and a jockey.

[Viking]

I am a 737 Capt. at Southwest here on the other side of the pond. After reading this and returning from europe last week, it would seem that the Ryan Air bashing over there is reaching the same proportions that the Southwest bashing was here not too long ago. Yes, maybe we do things a little differently, so what...Sour grapes anyone? Remember all you at Ryan: Success is the ultimate revenge.

[av8boy]

Viking,

Easy does it, eh? I ADORE Southwest, but the smug "so what" and "Success is the ultimate revenge" just opens the door to pointing out specific events where doing things "differently" at Southwest led to some unpleasantness. Because I'm assuming you are who you say you are, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply suggest that you not present you and your employer as such a tempting target on this forum...

Dave

[PPRuNe Radar]

It would be wise for any airline to learn the lessons of going too fast ... Southwest (and the two pilots) found out to their cost not too long ago, remember ??

Excessive airspeed and flight path angle caused crash (http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2002/020626a.htm)

http://a.abcnews.com/media/Travel/images/apr_southwest_plane_0803_n.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/media/US/images/ap_plane_skid_000306_a.jpg

[Stelios]

Agaricus bisporus


A MILE closer?
That's like 20 seconds late, at what, 1500'?
That's hardly a major sin.

[Burger Thing]

PPRuNe Radar

How many beers did you have before your posting? To give Joe Public the impression that when a 737 drops the gear 1 mile later on maybe a beautiful day (To all: no big deal, happens probably on every 5th approach worldwide) to safe some fuel it could maybe cause something like the SW accident, it is another story... :* Ah, why am I wasting my time here, it won't help a thing. The next Ryainair does these, Ryainair does that thread comes up anyway.

[eng123]

Petrolhead,
Even with the engines shut down there is still hyd pressure available for braking from the electric pumps.I still can't think of any unsafe consequence of shutting down engines and coasting to a stop.

GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Burger Thing

Please read posts carefully before posting. Read what is said and not make assumptions or links which are not there.

It was a generic warning to all operators that excess speed can have consequences when it all goes wrong. Or did the FAA and some clever journo with Photoshop just make the whole thing up ???

The big big clue was the phrase ''any airline''. The fact you read it to mean specifically (i) Ryanair and specifically (ii) the incident raised by the poster, is your problem, not mine. I have flown them many a time and work them every day at work. I don't have a safety concern with them. Therefore I have not cast an aspersion on them, but merely ask everyone in the industry to learn the lessons of SWA.

Complacency (i.e look at our safety record, we're the greatest) and smugness (i.e. we're different so we must be the best) are dangerous attitudes for any airline to have when it comes to air safety. Fortunately it's not a culture I've met in airline Flight Safety officers, just the occasional wet behind the ears junior FOs.

Also, there was no reference in my post to dropping the gear late causing the SWA accident, least not that I could see. :hmm: So put your toys back in the pram.

Now, shuffle off to the bar, it's your round ;)

[av8boy]

--like I said, when there's a tempting target...

However I WAS trying to be subtle... :eek:

[Viking]

Sorry!
I realize I came across looking quite smug. I know we've made our mistakes. My point was that there seems to an institutional arrogance at the big airlines, that their way is the best and only way to do things. When something new and different comes along the tendency is to criticize, and what better way to get a pilots goat, than to call him unsafe. The fact is that we all really don't know much about how things are done at other airlines and why.:O

[PPRuNe Radar]

Viking

I'll throw my hat in the ring and pledge that SWA are not unsafe either.

Unsafe airlines are characterised by trends, and in trend terms both Ryanair and SWA's safety records are up with the best.

I guess I was just trying to highlight that even if you think you are the best then a series of circumstances or unsafe actions by individuals (which you can't legislate for) can soon bring it all crashing down around you.

And yes, even Ryanair have safety incidents which get reported and investigated. And show that they and their crews are not immune to doing things wrong.

The important thing is that the management recognise that such things happen and take as much action as possible to mitigate against it. Be it through SOPs, company culture, or whatever.

I have faith that both SWA and Ryanair do take safety seriously. However I don't think that they are in any way in a cast iron position to not have an accident in the future. I would rate it as remote, but not impossible as some of the more staunch supporters of the airline would have us believe.

Safety is NO accident.

Long may both airlines prosper. They give the public a service niche which they want, and employ a lot of people in this industry of ours.

PS I still think as a person that MOL is a :mad: and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire :)

[Cruise Alt]

Somebody earlier brought up the Titanic as an analogy, and others have said that Ryanair has an impressive safety record. Some words to consider...


"When anyone asks me how I can best describe my experiences of nearly forty years at sea, I merely say uneventful. I have never been in an accident of any sort worth speaking about....I never saw a wreck and have never been wrecked, nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort."
Captain Edward J Smith, RMS TITANIC


Time will tell.

[whats_it_doing_now?]

Shutting down both engines as you trundle the last few feet on to the stand can't be a good idea. It's a bit pointless for fuel savings, and distracts you from the all important task of not hitting other vehicles on the apron, and indeed, the terminal building itself - that would be mighty embarrassing!

Nothing wrong with shutting one down on the taxi in IMHO, so long as the aircraft is light enough to get around on one/two/three (delete as ap't!) without blasting half of the ramp away. Saves fuel, noise, brakes. Seems like good airmanship to me, but does anyone else think differently?

[Tan]

We had a new hire Captain that thought it was cool to shut down both engines approaching the ramp, he's not longer employed by us.

The second part of your comment regarding single engine taxi is generally how its done by the majors.:D

[Golden Parrot]

There have been a few occasions when I ended up stopping short and needed a bit of power to roll those last couple of feet...I suspect I would have felt a lot more embarassed if I had already shut the engines down.
Regarding taxiing with asymmetric power, I would imagine in the long run you would have undesirable stress on the nose gear.

[Burger Thing]

PPRuNe Radar My appologies. Maybe I was a bit harsh, Sorry, but I was really getting upset about all this Against-Ryainair-Nonsense. Some individuls are really trying to black-paint this particular airline for whatsoever reason. I find that a little bit sad, especially as in difficult times of our industry as these days. :suspect:

[stargazer02]

I agree with you on Capt Numpty statement being a so called B777 driver.
The fact that he hasn't responded and even put this up in the first place speaks volumes.

Aircraft in the US do taxi on 1 or 2 ( if a 3 engine acft) to the holding point. Whenyou have a long taxi time & distance it is very common to see engines been started as an aircraft is number 2 or 3 to go. In places like KATL it can be very common to be nbr 28 in line for take off so i stand by my point...you can burn alot of fuel waiting for 30mins odd to go.

No im not a cowboy i take a professional pride in my career
but Capt Numpty is exactly what is says he is "A Numpty"
If he really was a B777 captain he wouldn't even be bringing this subject up...just another Ryan Air bashing.

A light walk around = a quick one and no i didn't get the engineers to do it for me when i was in UAL but they also did a check of the aircraft too and signed the Tech log off as well as me just like i said before....
Some people read what they want and then proceed to put their 2 size 12's in to the middle of it...


As stated above this is a pointless thread ....

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Eng123

<<<
GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.
>>>

That's fine, enough said. Others may bash Ryanair, but I haven't. In fact, I quite admire the company and its achievements, even if its commercial approach is a bit on the 'raw' side. As others point out, you know what you are buying with a Ryanair ticket. And, for avoidance of doubt, that's meant from the point of view of passenger support and convenience, not from the safety point of view. It's to try to understand the safety point of view better that I come to a website like this in the first place, and even ask the occasional question. Overall, I think most people without any axe to grind can intelligently balance the competing views and conclude that a) while nothing is perfect, and b) lack of any prior serious incident to date means something but only so much, Ryanair is a fundamentally safe operation.

[Training Risky]

If we are slagging off Ryanair, can I join in?

I think the management are a bunch of t*ssers for refusing to accept UK military ID..... while accepting Student ID cards!:confused:

[1261]

Carrying on from what my ATC colleagues have already said, I feel I have to point out that Ryanair's "expeditious" taxiing can help us all out, and you don't hear too many complaints then! How many times have you seen a Ryanair crew dawdle on a backtrack, miss the turnoff or cruise into the apron when asked to expedite. Not many complaints when you're No.2 to the Ryanair!!

Their crews do tend to be quick on the approach, but as stated above, it is really a failing of ATC not to have applied some speed control if that's going to present a problem. In most cases (at our unit anyway) you can rely on them to close up a gap if you need them to, or slow down if you need them to - simple as that!

That said, I've only twice ever flown as a punter with FR, and don't plan to do it again in the near future! Sorry guys, but it was a bit too much like a school trip - I'm a bit old for that these days.

[JW411]

stargazer02:

As you say, Captain Numpty is as likely to have a 777 rating as I am to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury.

Incidentally, my own record was joining the JFK congo line one particularly foul winter's night as No.54 (it went up to No.78 at one point).

We were on the ground for over four hours before take-off and I was only using the centre engine and the APU.

I do remember an old piece of folklore about an AA DC-10 crew who were using the wing engines in such a situation and forgot to start No.2 before take-off! They apparently survived this interesting experience.

[Captain Numpty]

What a shame that this post has apparently become a personal Sh1t throwing exercise!! Albeit, I am delighted to see it has rallied some considerable interest.

Whilst I note what my fellow colleagues Stargazer & JW411 have to say about me, I do not feel there is anymore to be gained by having to justify my position & ratings with individuals such as these.

However, I am warmed by the some of the other comments and observations made here by other colleagues within our industry, who, seemingly support the jist of the original post/ comments made.......

Thanks guys, for we can't ALL be wrong can we !?!?

Cheers
C.N. :ok:

[ramsrc]

Captain Numpty

We can't ALL be wrong, can we?

No probably not. Which is the primary reason why my family and I stopped flying with Ryanair.

I am not a pilot, nor am I expert when it comes to matters aviation but what I do know is that the last time I flew with Ryanair they scared the life out of me. Which is something that Buzz, BA, Sabena, Lufthansa and a host of other airlines have never managed to do, despite some pretty rough trips over the years.

I have been accused of Ryanair bashing before, (as it seems is anybody who dares to ask a simple question about them), so I am not going to dwell on the subject for too long. However, my gut feeling is that there is no smoke without fire.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I would rather not take the risk.

[stargazer02]

i can't see from my post where you think i have the attitude of " we'll get away with taxiing fast if we can"
i merely pointed out that if the aircraft were deemed to be taxiing too fast that ATC or the airport management unit would advise the crew but that from the side of the plane looking out to the untrained eye it can look alot faster than it actually was.
Since the NUMPTY wasn't jump seating and merely observing then he wasn't able to comment on the actual speed.

Finally Capt Numpty.....you say that you are sad this has become a sh it throwing contest......
Well he who stirrs Sh it as you do......get's splashed by it....as you were....
You really are a numpty....if you ever go to Scotland ask the folks there the meaning of your name and you will realise just what a NUMPTY you really are.....
Good luck in your BIG B777 ( if you really have one...perhaps a model one)...next time im crusing at FL450 ill say hello and dump the lav on ya.:cool:
I don't care what types people fly but really your attitude is just back inthe playschool playground....

[Faire d'income]

It is amazing how many people have strong opinions on subjects they know little about.

Just a few points ( not intended as FR bashing ):

If shutting down engines before stopping is non SOP then it is unprofessional by the skipper. If it is SOP then it is unprofessional by the airline. While the 737 has two electrical hydraulic pumps if as has been mentioned the APU fails or autoshuts down what happens? I would guess this procedure is not approved by FR.

To the best of my knowledge FR like most European carriers nowadays don't have an engineer at every turnaround. The cockpit crews walk-around is the one and only. The seriousness of this is obvious. I'm sure the culprit was told in training like the rest of us what is required. If an inexperienced co-jo hasn't grasped this yet it is hardly the fault of management.

Eng123. It is common knowledge and sometimes apparant that a number of FR crews use Rev to slow during taxi. I have heard speculation ( rumours only I know ) that without brake fans and quick turnarounds it might keep the temperatures down. You would know this better than I would. The real question is, again, is it SOP? If not then the skipper doing it is behaving unprofessionally.

There have been all sorts of posts about fast approaches and ATC speed control. Dub have tried to introduce this but with only moderate success. The reason for this is obvious, a number of the locals ignore the speed controls. FR are guilty of this but they are not the only ones. ( BTW if an aircraft is at 13 miles and you are at the holding point it is absurd to suggest there isn't enough separation for a departure )

Safety is not to be taken for granted. Those who brag about safety records walk a dangerous road. You don't ever hear Qantas bragging. It is way too important. FR like everyone have their incidents, the only odd thing is the media always seem to ignore them. Everyone saw the photo of the Euroceltic in Sligo but the FR in Charleroi two weeks earlier never even got a mention.

Any non-aviators reading this might think my suggesting that someone was unprofessional is saying they are not safe. That is not the case. If you shut down both engines before stopping it is unprofessional but it is not unsafe. Likewise using reverse thrust during taxi although with FOD ingestion you may reduce the life of the engine.
Also reading this thread you might think FR pilots might be the only ones to do such things. This is not the case either. FR attract more negative attention because I would suggest their CX makes enemies everywhere.

Last point to Dub ATCO. Just because an aircraft doesn't go-around from an approach doesn't mean the approach wasn't flown too fast. It just means the crew didn't take the sensible and safe option of exercising a go-around. This isn't an FR exclusive either.

[JW411]

Captain Numpty:

I have just seen your last posting and I cannot let it pass without comment. Your opening post on this thread was as sh*t-stirring as it is possible to get. Anyone with even half a brain should realise that if a lot of sh*t is thrown around then some of it will surely land back on his or her own head.

Even a brand new professional pilot with just a modicum of experience would realise that spacing and speed control on the approach in controlled airspace is the responsibility of ATC and not left to the whim of individual pilots. To imagine that Ryanair or any other airline could go around breaking speed limits without the knowledge and approval of ATC is frankly laughable.

For anyone with a 777 rating not to know this is inconceivable. If you really have got a 777 rating and don't know about such fundamentals then you are a danger to yourself and everyone else around you.

Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that you are a sciolist.

Incidentally, you still haven't told us why you were flying Ryanair and what it was that they did to rattle your cage in the first place.

If I were you I would bury Captain Numpty and get yourself a new callsign for nobody is going to take Captain Numpty seriously ever again. Next time, don't comment upon matters of which you have little knowledge.

[johnpilot]

Hey guys, I have been with Ryanair some time now and I hqve flown both the 200 and the 800. Our pilot body is as diverse as it can be with pilots ranging from South Africa to Canada and from New Zealand to Chile. Over 650 pilots from SAS, SABENA SwissAir Britannia, Air New Zealand, South African AIrways, British Airways and on and on. I cannot immagine that these guys became unproffesional the day they walked through the door. The 800 fleet does not use Reverse Thrust during taxi, the 200 does. We do not shut down both engines prior to arriving on to stand. The Ryanair SOPS call for a continious descent and for a low drag approach being fully configured by 800 feet that is full flaps gear down and thrust for landing speed bug +5. The low drag approach is not applicable during low vis, or for non precision approaches, or if ATC requires other speeds
We fly 80 hours a month four sectors a day many non precision approaches and a few circle to lands in places like Carcassone or Genova, and I personally do not know of any skipper who would jeoperdise his/her licence and the safety of 189 passengers plus crew to satisfy any commercial pressures. I have never felt any commercial pressures in my nine years with Ryanair. Does this mean that we could not have an accident? No way we just believe that if it happens it will not be because any of us deliberetely brake rules or push the aircraft to the limits. We just come to work for a nice easy and pleasant day, take the money and go home:D :D

[PPRuNe Pop]

Time for me to just tell everyone that I will allow a certain amount of 'steam' but I am also here to tell you that the most recent posts are heading towards the unacceptable. Please do not enter into slagging matches. Think about what you are saying in your posts before hitting the submit button.

I do have a very interesting little device that I can use to stop anyone making any further uneccessary remarks. Just cool it. It is an interesting thread.

As a matter of fact I was on board a FR flight to PIK recently and I estimated the taxi speed to be around 40kts at STN! I personally think that is way too high. But the operation itself was slick in both directions.

PPP

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

If you're not a current or former airline pilot or an ATCO then I struggle to find your opinion or observations interesting on this thread.

If you are qualified to have an opinion on this then I am interested to know which airline you would hold FRA up against when comparing safety records. I can't think of any airline that would particularly outshine FRA. I can think of several that have had both closer shaves and more incidents/accidents than FRA.

Which makes one wonder why FRA safety is such a recurring theme on PPRuNe.

I suspect if they were run by Mike Olery out of a EGSS HQ and had G as their first letter of registration then this recurring theme, wouldn't. Brilliant British success story would be more the attitude with a dollop of lets give Mike an OBE'ism thrown in.

A good size fleet, using busy airspace to plenty of Cat B & C airfields for well over a decade and they haven't hurt anyone yet.

Thats not bad. Better than some.

WWW

[stargazer02]

Hear, Hear
now can we Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz close this thread
Pprune Pop......i think some of those bad boy points you have should be sent to Capt Numpty to stirring this rubbish in the first place.
:cool: ;) :cool:

[zkdli]

One final post,

I don't care that ryr always ask if they have to obey the slp But could someone in the company please please please get the two callsigns ryr2255 ryr 3255 changed. Most days they come into stn at the same time and if you have spent anytime on r/t you will know that twos and threes sound almost exactly the same. We have been trying to get these c/signs changed or months but ryr just seem to ignore us! Do we have to have a blemish or worse on ryr's safety record before they are changed?:rolleyes:

[Tan]

johnpilot

Good post and more or less what I expected. Our SOP's require us to be fully configured by the OM. Thank goodness we don't do circling approaches anymore, or more correctly, not at the minimums of the old days...

[pom]

Well, I operated the 737-200 in a previous life and a few of the Captains used to cut both engines as we approached the stand. One day we did this and the brakes then failed. As we gently rolled towards the bowser the Captain opened his DV window and yelled at the marshallers to throw a chock under the nosewheel. Eventually they caught on and the a/c stopped dead about 4' away from the bowser, accompanied by the sound of 189 passengers falling over and all the catering falling out of the galleys.

So I don't think it's safe............

[eng123]

Must have been a tight squeeze with 189 pax on a -200.How would having the engine's running guard against a brake failure? With APU running supplying electric power then the electric hyd pumps are available to provide brake pressure to the outbd wheel brakes,even ignoring the pressure available to all brakes via the brake accumulators[available without any hyd pumps running]

[JW411]

pom:

I know nothing about 732s or your previous operation but I am curious to know:

1. Is it possible to get 189 passengers into a 732?

2. Why was the bowser parked in front of a moving aircraft? Surely this is a highly dangerous practice?

3. Why did 189 passengers fall over when they should have been seated with their seat belts fastened? Did one of you switch off the seatbelt sign whilst the aircraft was still in motion?

4. Why was the catering not firmly secured before landing?

All in all it sounds like a very dodgy operation to me.

[stormcloud]

Time to join the bunfight!

JW411 & stargazer02,
If you care to read the original post again you will see that it is about the perception of the guys wife.
Since 99.9% of passengers are not aviation professionals, it is IMHO, pretty important to consider their perceptions of us as individual companies and as an industry as a whole.
You may recall a small thing called SARS which has to be one the the best/worse cases of perception in a long time and had an effect on most, if not all of us.
Your personal attacks on CN belittle you in front of your colleagues and detract from the effectiveness of any point you are trying to make.
I'm sure that FR pilots are no less professional than any other good airline and long may that continue.
However, this is a 'Professional Pilots' forum and I personally think it reasonable for us to be able to question the operation of others in 'public' airspace.
I don't have a problem with fast approaches that are safe and stabilised but I do have an opinion on some of the other points raised.

Happy landings all.

stormcloud

Off soap box, engage blast deflectors!

[JW411]

stormcloud:

I thank you for your reply. I can see that you are a good and charitable man. I am indeed aware that Captain Numpty purported to be passing on his "new wife's perceptions" but I simply do not believe him.

I decided early on in this thread that he was just using this ruse to start yet another Ryanair sh*t-stirring contest and nothing that I have read since has dissuaded me from that view.

I have never worked for nor do I ever have any intention of working for Ryanair but I am getting sick and tired of fellow professional pilots being attacked in this way.

I have been a professional pilot for more than 40 years and have taught and flown with many fine young men. Some of them now fly with FR and they simply do not deserve to see and listen to the sort of malevolent and cowardly odium that the likes of the starter of this thread just love to create.

[stormcloud]

JW411,

You have me at a disadvantage as I only have 40 years of life so far :ok:

I did'nt see it as a $h!t stirring start but, hey, we can disagree.

Like you I never have/never will etc.
I think part of the problem, or maybe a large part of the problem is MOL. While undoubtedly a brilliant business man he comes across as a complete ar$e. Flies are drawn to smell of S**t!

I'm sure the guys/girls you taught are not the ones doing 40 kt taxying or turning off the masters before the park brake is on but some undoubtedly do and that is a reasonable point for discussion and IMHO critisism. It's also a fact of life that we are all (company or profession) tarred with the brush of one or two idiots. Maybe it's better to be 'attacked' here than the front page of a daily.

WWW asked 'why FRA safety is such a recurring theme on PPRuNe'. Again, I think it comes down to the perception of many pilots who see them fast taxying etc, know that they have got away with it so far (thinking 'cowboy') but wonder how long it will last.:uhoh:

Haven't seen any of CNs previous posts so can't respond to your last.

Anyway, it's ok to disagree unless you are pointing at the ground
;)


Happy landings.

stormcloud

[Brookmans Park]

I WOULD LOVE TO FLY A FAST APPROACH AT DUB BUT THE ATC IS SO BAD THAT I SELDOM CAN SEND THE DUBLIN ATC GALS ANN GUYS TO STN TO SEE HOW HOW IT CAN BE DONE REALLY WELL


Edit: BPK, perhaps you would care to say what your point is. It is very hard to understand right now.

And just for your info. Using capital letters is considered to be 'shouting' and, therefore, rude. Thought I should just let you know. ;)

[eastern wiseguy]

BPK to get your point across try english and (FEWER CAPITALS)......we ALL speak it here.......

[pom]

Sorry, details a bit hazy after 20 years. 124 pax I think - some of them always got up as the a/c approached the stand, even with the cabin crew shouting at them. You will find that the catering will fall out when the a/c stops dead, whether it's "secured" or not (ours was). If you haven't seen a bowser drive in front of a moving aircraft recently, maybe standards have improved in your neck of the woods over the last 20 years. Having said that, I saw one last week.

As I recall, the brake failure was caused by the electrical power changeover when the engines were shut down.

[slingsby]

line up canx due aircraft at 13 miles 300knts !!! Ex military driver remembering the run in and break, going to guns, TFLW radar on, hard ride set....

Not having flown with Ryanair, no real comment, but was passed by one B737 on the approach to LTN, we were 180knts and he passed us like a bat out of hell, boards out, aiming to be nbr 1 ahead of us and the other 2 aircraft. He called visual at 10 miles , asked if any traffic on finals, reply was negative, called up turning finals now, switching to tower,............. now thats worthy of a comment or two...:D

[G-ALAN]

As a regular flyer on Ryanair I have nothing against them (apart from the fact they are always delayed :p ) However I have observed all the above mentioned on this thread several times and have often wondered about the safety of some of these practices. I have noticed before it was even mentioned that Ryanair seem to do everything in a hurry, infact taxing to 05 at STN on one flight the pilot opened the throttles very slightly and just let the aircraft roll faster and faster! we must have been doing about 40kts at the end of the taxiway!! and about 50% of the time the engines are shut down before we stop at the gate. About 90% of the time the flaps and gear don't come down till late on in the approach and the aircraft does seem to approach very fast and always has to use spoilers to slow down before the flaps come out! infact once seen it deploy flaps 5 and still had to use spoilers to slow down!!

I'm not an airline pilot so I've no idea if these practices are safe or not I'm just stating the facts which I have observed first hand, like I said I'm not bashing Ryanair in any way, they always take me to where I want to go safely and that's all that matters to me.

[VFE]

I flew Ryan a coupla months ago outa DUB and the whole operation was very slick and to my liking. So slick in fact that the Captain forgot to do the pax announcement until we were about to line up on the runway and even then it was:

"Morning ladies and gents, we have clearance for take off so are gonna go straight away. Weather in STN is the same as it is here. Cheers"

Good ole customer service eh! :)

Personally I couldn't have given a monkeys about that but I bet the PR dept would be up in arms over it. As for the taxiing, approach and shutting down before stopping bizzo....... I never noticed but that's not to say they didn't of course but is there really an issue anyway if it's all within regs?

VFE.

[woottsbj25]

Hi,
I'll put my comment in...

When I flew with Ryanair to Verona, they were going incredibly fast on the approach. As we exited the runway, the reversers were still engaged at the SAME PERCENTAGE that they were when we landed. Then, we taxiied incredibly fast to the gate and were shunted off the plane as fast as possible.

Also, on departure from Stansted, the plane arrived late (I would like to stress that it did on the way back as well). The passengers got off, and then we went straight on. No cleaning. There was enven a large lump of chewing gum on my seat when I came to sit down. Fresh as well.

I wasn't impressed with Ryanair. Not at all.

[Approach_plate]

I have seen the crew shut down the engines 10ft or so before the stop bar and coast to a stop

So you have never seen a Ryanair 732 come on to stand 13 at CWL then have you?? ground speed of 25knts + both engine switched off as it passes stand 9 and heavy braking coming up to the stop bar with the marshaler s**ting himself thinking is he going to stop?? I have even listend in on tower as the asked a FR 732 to reduce taxi speed.

[Herod]

You're not going to believe this, but yesterday I heard "Ryanair, can you expedite your taxy, you're delaying the aircraft behind". Flogging offence, I would have thought.

[brain fade]

Re fast approaches and taxi speeds. I used to fly the a/c 'harry flatters' the whole time. On a line check once tho, my (very) experienced line trainer made me do the actual sums and work out the actual gain. You know 20 kt extra for 8 mins takes you about 2 miles nearer the runway.......... saves you about 40sec etc etc. Do your own sums when you get a mo. As for say 40 Kt extra betweem six and three miles on the ILS the gain's utterly miniscule. work it out if you can be arsed.
Naturally the same sort of logic applies to taxxing. do the sums for a typical one mile taxi to see the tiny saving in time.
As for shutting down before you park. Why? fuel saving truly insignificant and surely doesn't even allow quicker disembarkation.
Re. Ryanair safety record. I'm glad its good! All airlines start off with a good safety record. The trick is to keep it that way year in year out. Still......so far so good.
Just work out what the gain actually is, timewise. That way at least you know what you are getting for all that rushing about:}

Me. I just wish they'd TALK a bit slower on the RT:ok:

[dicksynormous]

Ryr policy is the same as most on the 800. Econ descent, dont fly flat out to catch up lost time, etc etc. So if anyone has hard evidence they should present it. Otherwise leave them alone.

I have operated for them and its no different. Gossip based accusations based on the earlier operations with 200 series.

If some guys decide to speed up its their chioce , not policy.

[jonathang]

I know nothing about 732s or your previous operation but I am curious to know:

1. Is it possible to get 189 passengers into a 732?



No, FR's config is 130Y for 737-200.



2. Why was the bowser parked in front of a moving aircraft? Surely this is a highly dangerous practice?



Yes, highly dangerous and unlikely it happened. Bowser should not even drive in front of an aircraft taxing on stand. (Aircraft right of way over vehicles).




3. Why did 189 passengers fall over when they should have been seated with their seat belts fastened? Did one of you switch off the seatbelt sign whilst the aircraft was still in motion?



Also sounds very doubtful. Everyone knows lots of pax do stand up against cabin crew instructions. (All 130 ?? hmm)



4. Why was the catering not firmly secured before landing?



Mistakes happen , latches fail. Also highly unlikely.



All in all it sounds like a very dodgy operation to me.




Or it never happened?

Former FR Dispatcher

[Leezyjet]

I was once overtaken in the ramp car by an FR 732 at MAN going past the FLS hanger. I sped up to keep apace with him and looked at the speedo, I was going 45mph.

Yes I know I shouldn't have been speeding in the ramp car, but I'd always been curious to know roughly how fast they were taxiing and had no other way of finding out.

:)

[jonathang]

I gather thats 38kts on a straight section of taxiway then? problem ?

[volrider]

I have read this thread with great interest, my opinion of Ryan Air is not a negative one, yep they taxi damn fast, yep they shut both engines down as they coast to the stand. Yep they are reliable in dispatch and have courteous crew. Funny enough EXACTLY what the pax want:ok:

But JW411 & stargazer02 your comments and slanging match against Capt Numpty is disgraceful and I for one would be interested how you approach CRM issues in your aircraft, hopefully with more profesionalism than you have shown in this thread.... To breate a fellow pilot, demanding his experience be stated.
I am glad that the majority of decent first officers and captains out there do not share your worrying traits.


come on dont disapoint I am sure you will take great pleasure in destroying me:ok:

[dada]

in respomse to leezyjet, i followed one in our ramp car and it was doing over 100 (clock limit on our fiesta) when it took off. how fast is that?

[hollywood285]

Why is it Ryanair aircraft have too taxi at high speeds!!! surprised they dont fit a horn to them!

[bluebird121]

:cool: i will be flying to dublin in four weeks time from edinburgh (the faster the better)..and have flown with ryanair a few times from prestwick and have no complaints whatsoever.. very pleasant crew..;) ;)

[Oshkosh George]

Hollywood
Six pages of posts,and you're still asking the original question?(I didn't read them!)

[clearfinalsno1]

This has all been discussed before but I just had my first Ryanair experience this weekend, Newcastle to Oslo and back.

I think they squeeze a couple more rows of seats in than Easyjet do. Also the seats don't recline.

I was amazed at how fast the taxying was at Oslo - just like being on coach going down a bumpy road. So much for walking speed - more like sprinting speed. Obviously on a mile or two of taxying it might save a minute or two if you go faster - but it does contribute to the feeling of being treated like cattle in a truck (which we are of course). 2 miles @ 20mph = 6mins, 2 miles@40mph = 3 mins. I'm not sure its worth it.

Also I was impressed/amazed/shocked at how quick the turn around was at both Newcastle and Oslo - from arrival on stand to push back starting I timed at about 21 mins (pax off, luggage off, fuel on, luggage on, pax on etc). In fact we actually left the ground 5 mins early at Oslo. Net effect was we arrived at Newcastle about 33 mins ahead of schedule!

Pax numbers were very low on both legs with only about 50 pax on board (737-800 seats around 198), so go to Norway cheaply while you still can - cost me just £27 inc taxes.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Easyjet's 737's are either older 300's or new 700's, both of which are smaller than the 800's of Ryanair. That explains the extra seats. Ours no longer recline as recline mechanisms are susceptible to breakage leading to additional repair costs. Maximum taxi speed is 30 knots in a straight line, not fast walking pace as in light aircraft. Your calculations are quite correct, however let's not forget that 2 extra minutes per flight with the incumbent additional fuel burn multiplied out by thousands of flights per year adds up. Also, that extra two minutes taken taxiing out just might delay the aircraft an extra few minutes due to landing traffic and even greater delays if due to missing a slot.

Please understand that we don't do anything without a reason and we ARE thinking about the operation continually. Thank you for your observations.

[TotalBeginner]

As a passenger, I'm no great fan of Ryanair. But that is purely an opionion, and has nothing to do with the professionalism of their flight deck crew.

I can honestly say that I find flying with Ryanair, no different to being on board an aircraft of any other carrier. It doesn't feel faster, the landings aren't any harder. Ok, I may have seen the odd FR taxiing a wee bit fast, but then I've also seen the same thing with EI, BA and EZY.

I'm afriad that I find all this talk about fast approaches, a little hard to believe. I'm sure that Ryanair have the same "stable approach" criteria, as any other 738 operator. The whole concept of 738's screaming down the glideslope at 300 kts just sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

My qualifications only extend to light aircraft, so maybe I'm not qualified to pass judgment, but I can't see any justification for some of the comments that I've read on this post.