AVGAS fuel price at Biggin Hill EGKB

[V1GO]

Hi,


I'm planning a trip to EGKB shortly. Planning to arrive with a COZY (Homebuild Canard aircraft), from Belgium.

Can anybody provide me with the AVGAS fuel price in Biggin Hill EGKB, when tankering AVGAS and leaving the UK, (back to Belgium).

Believe they give "fuel tax drawback" in the UK, makes the fuel about 40% cheaper. I know they do it in Lydd (EGMD) for sure, but don't know what the procedure in Biggin Hill is. Can anybody please clarify......

Thanks for answering,


Best regards,

V1GO

PS: E mailed EGKB but no answer, maybe the 150Ltr or so I'll buy or not important enough.....

:cool:

[Timothy]

V1GO

I am based at Biggin and pay 81p/l, but I believe I get a discount for paying on account, or for being based there or something, so I guess it's more like .83 to the paying public.

You can call the fuel office on +44 1959 578526.

In order to get drawback you have to fill out a form (available from briefing) and send it to an address in Newcastle (I don't have the address to hand, but they'll have it in briefing and if they don't, I'll find it for you.) You need to attach the fuel receipt. You also need to know when the aircraft previouly went foreign from the UK and the burn per hour so it's a good idea to have that information with you. The drawback is quite substantial, about 25p/l, so 150l is more than £30 worth...better than a poke in the eye.PS: E mailed EGKB but no answer, maybe the 150Ltr or so I'll buy or not important enough.....Both Briefing and the Fuel office are very helpful, nice people, so I wouldn't take offence...more likely an error or mistransmission or something.

W

[V1GO]

Hi W Collins,

Thanks for the excellent reply.

If you agree, I'll send you a private email.


Regards,

V1GO

[Timothy]

I sent you the following response by eMail, but it was bounced by your mail server (you've exceeded your allocation) So I will trust the forebearance of other PPRuNers and post the reply here (others may be interested):

First apoligies for the way I reacted on the fact that they didn't answer my mail....

They run a very busy office, but they are basically good guys.

Then, concerning the fuel drawback...I have to fill in the form and send it to Newcaslte. Do I immediately pay 25p less, or do they refund you the amount later...?

No. You pay the whole amount to Biggin, send off the form, then, some weeks later, get a cheque from HM Customs and Excise. This can cause a slight flutter of the heart when you first see the envelope, so be prepared!

In the terminal there's a pilot shop, I might be buying some stuff from them... Are they better than the Transair shop downtown...?

In the terminal there is very little. There is a proper pilot's shop (called, appropriately enough, The Pilot's Shop) the other side of the airfield. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get to without a car. Your best bet might actually be to taxi the aircraft over there (it's near the Shipping and Airlines hangar.) I haven't been to the one in town for 20 years so can't comment on that, but the best bet is Transair at Fairoaks. It is quite large and has a good stock (certainly better than the one at Biggin.) Fairoaks is only ten minutes flying time from Biggin, so you might want to pop down there. If you want a briefing about going to Fairoaks I can offer that too! What a service you are getting!

Lastly, I plan to come to EGKB 16 (or 17th July, when WXDR is bad 16th). We plan to go downtown London. Believe taxi to the nearest station and then a 15min train to Victoria is the easiest...is that correct?

Yes, taxi (or maybe bus) to Bromley then there are frequent and fast trains into Victoria. The fast ones will be less than 15 mins, the slow ones maybe a bit more.

PS: If you have any further info on how to lower the quite expensive landing fees in EGKB, please feel free to let me know....

There are plenty of airfields to choose from around London, many cheaper than Biggin. You could think about Stapleford, Redhill, White Waltham, but I guess that Elstree would be the best combination of proximity to London and facilities. You could also think about Rochester and taking a longer train journey, but that will probably cost more than the landing fee.

Having said that, Biggin has loads of facilities, including ILS, VOR, DME (if you have them in the COZY) ATC and two runways, one very large. It has customs on site (any of the others you have to book customs) and is on the right side of London for you. If I were you I would pay the extra £10 and forget about it!

Another possibility would be to go to Fairoaks (it will be a little cheaper than Biggin, but not much) then you can go to Transair, take a taxi to Woking station then fast regular trains to Waterloo.

I hope this helps, but get back to me if you need anything else.

W

[CAUTION VORTEX WAKE]

To be honest V1GO, I'd take your Cozy somewhere other than Biggin Hill.

The service at Biggin Hill is excellent providing you have at least 2 jet engines.

To be perfectly honest, the staff at the Regional Airports like Biggin Hill, Southend, Manston etc really hate to have things like COZY's, VEZE's etc etc operate from the airport, light aircraft like these cause far too much trouble, especially when the flimsy nose wheels fail, (which let's face it is very often) causing the quality traffic ie. BAe146's, B727's etc etc to go around and hold off until the runway is cleared and inspected (if it's prangs on the main RWY).

I'd recommend you use Fairoaks or somewhere like that who speicalise in VFR light aircraft stuff.

[Timothy]

CAUTION VORTEX WAKE Netiquette prevents me from responding with the vehemence I feel.

Have you ever been to Biggin? There must be more SEPs per hour than anywhere else in the country. And loads of EZEs and the like, and an old Moth taildragger that uses the grass.

There are relatively few jets, maybe an average of one an hour compared with ten to twenty SEPs. 146s? 737s? you must be getting confused with somewhere else. Last time I saw a 146 was during a hurricane when the cross wind at LCY was excessive and they happily used 21/03 at Biggin. I bet there are fewer than two 146s a year, and one 737.

V1GO I would suggest that you ignore this contribution.

That said, as I say, there are arguments in favour of Fairoaks.

W

[Keef]

Disagree strongly with CVW. I've found Biggin and Southend to be the model of courtesy and helpfulness. OK, the landing fee isn't cheap, but you get ILS, NDB or VOR, a big runway, approach control, and Customs all provided.

If I'm coming home in grotty IMC, I can't imagine anywhere I'd rather be landing than Southend. If I'm in the slightest concerned about the WX, I ask for and get radar vectors to the ILS. They don't complain, they don't mess about, they just do the job professionally.

The folks in the Southend FBO are so helpful they've become close friends over the years I've been flying (single engine) from there. Sadly, Stu and Bonnie are retiring this year, but George and Tracy will still be there.

I don't go to Biggin as often, but they didn't seem to mind that I had only one piston engine. I still got the full ATC service, and taxi instructions to the place I was going.

[CAUTION VORTEX WAKE]

Keef. Southend must have been pleased to see you, let's face it, they don't see many other aircraft!! :)

W Collins. In answer to your question, yes I have been to Biggin Hill which is why I was able to make my inital comment. I think you are slightly low on your estimate on quantity of Biggin Hill's Jet traffic of one an hour, I reckon at least 3 an hour on a slow day, 5 or 6 and hour on a busy day, and, the reason why it's still only this small quantity is because the Jet Pilot's are sh*t scared of flying into that place with the, like you say 20 SEP. Coming down the 21 ILS at 140 KTS only to be cut up by a solo circuit student (and I'm not complaining about students) because he didn't understand ''report final following the Citation on 3 mile ILS'' is a bit worrying, worrying for not only the Jet's I would imagine but the poor gals and guys in the tower. If there wasn't so many SEP operating from Biggin Hill, I seriously think there would be soo much more Jet aircraft using that place and zero amount of light aircraft.

Anyway, sorry for straying away from the original subject of this thread!:rolleyes:

[Keef]

Bit of a contradiction of your earlier statement there, methinks.

[Red Four]

V1GO

What part of London do you need to visit?

Southend is cheaper than Biggin, and is more convenient for City of London, Docklands and east of London.
Possibly the train fare may be slightly higher, but the frequent and reliable service from Rochford to Liverpool Street station, right in the heart of the city, usually takes 45 minutes.
Taxi from terminal at Southend to Rochford only 5 minutes.

[Andrew Sinclair]

Our group owned C172M is based at Biggin Hill in hangar 504 next to Mr Singh's maintenance hangar. I have been flying out of here for about 2-3 years on and off. We share the hangar with a couple of multi-engined aircraft, several SEPs and two Varieze aircraft. I have been talking to one of the pilot/owner over the winter and he seems very happy with the airfield and the services provided.

My experience of the services there has always been that they are professional and very helpful. When asking for a departure to the North through the LCY they ring Thames Radar and check for me what the chances are when I am at the hold and advise accordingly without me having to request this. I have visited the TWR on several occasions to discuss issues with the controllers or generally say hello when they are not too busy and have learned a great deal from them.

I hope that Biggin Hill don't get the idea to push out SEPs in favour of jets that would be a disaster for our group.

Another alternative would be Redhill (EGKR). Our group use this as a base in the summer season and it is a nice airfield. They have a good website here (http://www.redhillaerodrome.com/) which Fraser, the Deputy SATCO, has done some good work on so I will give them a plug!

[SATCO Biggin]

Vigo....

Firstly appologies for us not replying to your E mail but we had a computer snag which prevented us picking up any messages. I finally got things back up and running yesterday after re-installing Windows and all software.

Hopefully the replies you have received from this Forum have given you the answers you require. Should you still visit Biggin on the 16th or 17th then I will arrange for transport to the Pilot Shop/ railway station for you.

CAUTION VORTEX WAKE.....

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I would guess the owners of the 7 Veze and Leze based here would not agree with sentiments, particularly the one about their flimsy nosewheels.

Everyone....

Yes we do have a mix of greatly differing aircraft types at Biggin. The proportions are close to 80% SEP and 20% corporate jet/turbine. This does not create any problems provided everyone stays awake and listen to what the controllers ask them to do. We continue to upgrade the ATC facilities we have in order to smooth the integration of all types of aircraft user. A local 'radar' facility is currently being installed to assist controllers in this task (although we cannot provide any radar services directly to aircraft such as RAS or RIS)

Landing fees.......well I have paid similar amounts to land at all grass airfields and others with no facilities.

Regards

SATCO
Biggin Hill

[Keef]

Thanks, TMC, and thanks for the excellent service getting me (and G-UTSY) to Singh's hangar on a murky 1st December last year.

[flower]

Oh Dear CVW,
I assume from your posts you have had a hard time at some point.

All ATCOs will tell you that variety is the spice of life, How did our Jet pilots get to be Jet pilots without starting off life as student PPLs.

I am quite sure if the Biggin controllers are having difficulties with GA they are more than able to deal with them , they are after all professionals at the job.
I work at an airfield which is the fastest growing regional airport and we welcome the mix of GA and commercial.

From my limited experience of flying in and out of Biggin they all seemed extremely friendly and ATC seemed more than up for the job, and those i know who keep their Aircraft there seem very happy with it.

Every airfield has its problems and Im sure those who work or operate out of Biggin can tell you a bad story , but then everyday stuff that works well with no hastle never gets reported does it
:ok:

BTW im not having a go at anybody OK

[V1GO]

Hi guys,

Just got back from a Japan trip...and Jesus....this proves how a standard question can easily develop into a hell of a discussion..., isn't it?

First WCollins, thanks very much for your reply. The PPRUNE registration is still linked to an old hotmail and that's why it bounced. I will change it over to my standard e-mail. Thanks for posting it anyhow...Your replies are very clear and straight forward.

Then, CAUTION VORTEX WAKE as an Emirates A330 pilot, I guess I understand the "big boys" way of flying ?! Have no problem with holding to get any IFR traffic in...Let's enjoy the extra 10min airborne....or not? Regarding the nosewheel, well the aircraft has the nosewheel tyre been changed once in 500hrs...not "too" bad" , isn't it...?

The Mad Controller, No apoligies for the late reply needed, this is life in the computer-age, isn't it?. Yes, I certainly still plan to come to EGKB 16 or 17th July. Will try to have a look at the other LEZ and VEZ's...and to visit "The pilot shop" on the "other" side. Thanks for the transport proposal.


Going downtown, plan to go to the Transair shop near Victoria station. Does anybody know, if this shop stocks the same amount of items as the Shoreham and Fairoaks one, or is it much smaller...?


PS: I know Biggin quite well, been there plenty of times but it's a long time I haven't been there...(10years or so).


Regards to all of you....and safe flying in and out of Biggin!

V1GO


:ok:

[AlanM]

Unbelievable...

So much crap on here - very embarrassing for a visitor to read I bet. Whilst everyone has a right to an opinion, why completely rubbish a suggestion??

First of all - I have to say that Biggin Hill ATC are excellent.

As a Thames Radar person chucking them stuff down the ILS I can honestly say they do a fantastic job. The mass amount of work they do to arrange their circuit traffic so that the IFR inbound comes in is brilliant. Only once have I had to hold an aircraft off and that is because it was a sunny day and I forgot the 20 mile check!!!

They work a lot harder than many of us who have CAS and a radar I can assure you. Something we regularly comment on.

As for being delayed - well that is life at a busy successful airport (ask anyone who flies from Luton or Manchester etc. Apart from the rules of VFR not delaying IFR flights as per the manual, it wouldn't be much fun orbiting a jet outside CAS for a prolonged period of time.

Red Four: Do you really think an A330 jock is really that bothered about paying a little bit extra?!!

Why not fly down to Fairoaks after visiting Biggin? Only 10 mins away and (I think) a bigger shop. Always well stocked when I have visited. Unless you really want to see London!

Looking forward to speaking to you soon old boy. Go visit and make your own mind up. Then post your results!!!:ok:

[t'aint natural]

V1GO:
A couple of points -
The Transair shop in Victoria (50a Cambridge Street) is rather small and doesn't carry as much stock as those at Shoreham and Fairoaks. Fairoaks refunds your landing fee if you spend more than £50 at Transair.
I've found Biggin Hill to be an excellent airfield with the most helpful staff, whatever I was flying. However, it has the drawback of having poor transport links with central London - something it shares with Fairoaks.
Red Four is right; Rochford station is very close to Southend and has frequent services to Fenchurch Street station in London. It's also worth thinking about Redhill, from where you can either take a five minute taxi ride to Redhill Station and a train to Victoria, or a 15-minute taxi ride to Gatwick and catch the Gatwick Express into town.
Whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll find that London area ATC is courteous, helpful and professional. Enjoy.

[V1GO]

Hi all again,

Thanks for the further info on Transair and others...

Just a couple of thoughts...

First, Red four...Just out of curiousity I looked up the landing and parking fees in Biggin and Southend....You're right! Biggin is more expensive, 10p more expensive to be precise...I checked and I can just manage it, will come to Biggin!

Sorry guys, wanted to continue....wrong button!

Some figures from the net:
Southend: LDG fee 15.25, parking (4-8hrs) 9, totals 24.25£
Biggin: LDG fee 16.5, International arr. 1.5, parking 1day 6.35; totals 24.35£

t'aint natural, I'm sure I will enjoy London ATC, ....company has 5 daily flights into LHR and LGW, and I think I'm getting used to it now!

And as last, AlanM, thanks for your comment, but OLD Boy....hmmm, 32 now and life only starts at 40 isn't it....?
:ok:

Will keep you informed on the flight,


CU all and happy landings,


V1GO :cool:

[FlyingForFun]

The Transair shop in London is not as big as Fairoaks. (Never been to the Shoreham one, but I gather that's bigger than London too.) But I've only ever once found something I wanted to buy that they didn't have in stock. Well, twice actually, but the second time none of their shops had it.

Not worth going out of your way for, but worth a visit if you're in London.

FFF
---------------

[Timothy]

CWT

I owe you a small apology, or at least correction. There is, of course a private 146 operated out of Biggin, which goes in and out on a regular basis.

Because it parks on the East side, not the apron I forgot about it, but it taxied in today as I taxied out and I felt a small pang of guilt as it presented itself to my attention.

737s on the other hand....:hmm:

W

[CAUTION VORTEX WAKE]

W Collins

I owe you a small apology, or at least correction. There is, of course a private 146 operated out of Biggin, which goes in and out on a regular basis. Because it parks on the East side, not the apron I forgot about it, but it taxied in today as I taxied out and I felt a small pang of guilt as it presented itself to my attention.


There aren't ANY privately owned jet's 'based' on Biggin Hill's apron, they all live as you say, on the East side in hangers (and South side for that matter) therefore you wouldn't know that there are infact 2 based BAE146's at Biggin Hill, as well as at least one GLF4, a F2TH, numerous LJ45's, LJ60's, LJ31's. The only reason why there are often jet's on the apron is when visiting jet's park overnight or are being 'turnt around'. As for 737's, there aren't any based there currently that I am aware of however it wasn't a million moons ago when there was. There would also be a A319 based there operating daily if the capatin of said Airbus hadn't witnessed a busy day!