Foreign License in GB

[Splork2000]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some information and I hope somebody here might be able to help.

I'm batting around the idea of doing a holiday to Britain sometime over the next year or so. While there I would like to do some flying, perhaps to the Channel Islands/Ireland/France...

My question is what is required to enable me to hire and fly aircraft in Britain on my Canadian license? I have done the conversion of my Private license in the US to an FAA certificate and it was just a paperwork transaction, wondering if the process is similar for you CAA.

Any input is appreciated.

Splorks

[bookworm]

For private VFR flying, no paperwork is required.

The CAA publishes an FAQ (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/faq.asp?faqid=208) on the subject.

[Splork2000]

Thanks for the link BW. So I am correct in assuming that all I have to do is show up at the Aerodrome of my choice, present my license to the school or club and I am off after a requisite checkout on the airplane?

Also, if my license allows me to exercise priveledges the same as a CAA issued license then there would be no problem taking a G registered a/c to France or Ireland?:O

[Evo]

Also, if my license allows me to exercise priveledges the same as a CAA issued license then there would be no problem taking a G registered a/c to France or Ireland?


Nope :(

You need 2 out of these 3 to be the same

Aircraft Registration
Pilot's Licence
Airspace


So you're fine in a G-reg in UK airspace on a Canadian PPL, but G-reg in French airspace is out...

(And thanks Irv for a very useful seminar that taught me that!)

[Splork2000]

Thanks Evo,

Is there any facility in place that would allow me to take a G reggy'd a/c to France? By that I mean if I cannot do it on the Canadain license, does the CAA have a provision to convert my license to a CAA certificate?

I kind of fancy a trip to France if I am there and it would be a shame if I couldn't. Not that there would be any disappointment in being confined to the UK, as there is more than enough to keep a mere mortal like me entertained, but having open options would be nice.:p

[bookworm]

Evo is mistaken, I think. Provided the licence is rendered valid by the state of registration of the aircraft (in this case the UK), it should be accepted by other states for flight in their airspace.

[Evo]

I may well be - i'm going on my understanding of year-old notes!

[englishal]

So you're fine in a G-reg in UK airspace on a Canadian PPL, but G-reg in French airspace is out...
Yea, sorry Evo, you're wrong on this one...:D

I wrote and asked the French authorities [and German] and their reply was basically that if the UK allowed you to fly a G reg on a foreign licence in the Uk, then, the French / German authorities would allow you to fly a G reg in their airspace.

Try sending an email to:
"MICHEL Dominique - DAC-N" <[email protected]>

and get it in writing. Carry this with you and you should have no problems.

Rgds
EA:D

[mutt]

Ummmmmmm, I happen to agree with EVO, so if anyone wants to prove us wrong please quote the relevant JAR.........

Thanks

Mutt.

[bookworm]

Nothing to do with JARs but part of the Chicago Convention

Article 32
Licenses of personnel
(a) The pilot of every aircraft and the other members of the operating crew of every aircraft engaged in international navigation shall be provided with certificates of competency and licenses issued or rendered valid by the State in which the aircraft is registered.

[rustle]

Nothing to do with JARs but part of the Chicago Convention

Hmmm.... And how many threads have there been discussing how "pointless", "irrelevant", "boring" &tc. the Air Law ground school and exams were :rolleyes:

PS comments above not aimed at anyone on this thread :eek:

[flyingfemme]

You have an FAA licence - so hire an N reg aircraft. Take it where you like.

[mutt]

Ok lets take this a bit further..... please define "RENDERED VALID".

My interpretation is that if I take a FAA ATP to the CAA of the Bahamas, they will issue me with a validation to operate a Bahamas registered aircraft. That isn’t the same as showing up with the FAA licence to fly the aircraft.

Comments.

Mutt

[bookworm]

If the law in the Bahamas says that you need a piece of paper that says 'validation' on it to have a licence rendered valid then that's what you need. If the law in the Bahamas says that your FAA licence is rendered valid automatically then you don't need any paperwork.

Rendered valid is whatever the law of the land says it is.

[GuinnessPWS]

Here is some info from the CAA. Looks like they don't have any problem with an ICAO license holder operating a G reggie'd a/c anywhere but they do suggest checking with the authoritative (is this really a word?) body of the country one wishes to fly in.

********************************************

Using a Non-UK Licence on G-Registration aircraft within UK airspace.

Thank you for your recent enquiry.

Firstly please take the time to read this section taken from the ANO 2000 as amended.

Air Navigation Order 2000, Part 4, Article 21, paragraph 4.

(a) For the purposes of this Part of this Order subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory, purporting in either case to authorise the holder thereof to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot only, shall, unless the CAA in the particular case gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:
(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or

(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying.
(b) For the purposes of this Part of this Order, a JAA licence shall, unless the CAA in the particular case gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order.


As the holder of a current and valid ICAO PPL(A), CPL(A) or ATPL(A) you would be entitled, as promulgated in Part 4, Article 21, paragraph 4 of the ANO, to fly in G-Registration Aircraft.

This is usually subject to the following restrictions:

* Day only
* VMC only
* No Instructional privileges

However:

* If your licence contains a Night Rating issued in accordance with
the provisions of ICAO, then the privileges of the licence may be exercised at night provided the state of Licence Issue requirements for maintaining the right to fly at night are maintained.

* If your licence contains an Instrument Rating issued in accordance
with the provisions of ICAO, then provided the State of Licence issue requirements for maintaining the right to exercise the privileges of the rating are maintained then the privileges of this rating may be exercised on G-Registered aircraft, subject to the provisions of 21(4)(a)(ii).

It is not the policy of the CAA to issue a certificate for this purpose, nor is it currently required that you hold such a certificate issued by the CAA prior to exercising these privileges.

Should you wish to fly a G Registered Aircraft outside of UK airspace the specific permission of the regulatory body governing such airspace must be sought.

If you have any queries relating to this email, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team on 01293-573700. For other Licensing information, please visit our web site at www.srg.caa.co.uk


Yours sincerely


Michael Sims
Personnel Licensing
Civil Aviation Authority

[bluskis]

This appears to allow a holder of an FAA IR to fly a G reg both in the UK and in say France IFR/IMC. Is this a correct interpretation?

Does this ruling apply equally to foriegn residents and to UK residents?

[benhurr]

Or just borrow a Brit Pilot for the day...

[englishal]

France / UK IFR but NOT in controlled airspace.

The difference being if you're resident outside the EU, the French will issue you a French licence [JAA] based on your foreign licence IF you want to apply for one, whereas if you're resident in the UK or the EU they won't. You have to submit proof that you are legally resident outside the EU. If you are a brit legally resident OUTSIDE the EU then they will issue you a licence too. Not sure if the Channel Islands count as EU, but in the French eyes they probably count as French anyway :D

Drop them an email, I was impressed at the speed of their response.

Cheers
EA:D

[Keef]

I always thought the "shorthand" two out of three rule applied, but I defer to bookworm's superior knowledge of the rules.

For VFR flight in France in a G-reg with a Canadian or FAA PPL, I would get a letter from the DGAC to say it's OK: that will avoid any unpleasantness with the French authorities if you are subjected to a ramp check (they do happen in France).

As far as IFR flying goes, you can use your Canadian or FAA IR to give the privileges of a UK IMC rating in a G-reg in the UK - but NOT outside the UK. The IMC is not the same as an IR.

There is (or was) a confusing piece of text on the DGAC website which implies an FAA IR is valid for IFR flight in a G-reg or F-reg in France. I contacted the DGAC direct, and was told it most definitely is NOT so.

[englishal]

Keef,

you can use your Canadian or FAA IR to give the privileges of a UK IMC rating in a G-reg in the UK
But ONLY if you have the IMC rating piece of paper issued by the CAA. They will ONLY issue it if you have a JAA / CAA licence to issue it onto....They won't issue and probably can't legally, issue this rating onto a foreign licence. Why they don't just amend the ANO to state "Gives the same privileges as the IMC rating" I don't know...Stupid really!

Cheers
E:D

[IO540-C4D5D]

Keef

The 2 out of 3 rule is correct but it applies to Licenses (i.e. a PPL/CPL) but not to Ratings (e.g. IR).

To *automatically* get the full privileges of a Rating worldwide you need the country of reg of the plane to match the country of issue of the Rating.

However it is possible for any country to give a permission for anything it feels like, in its own airspace. The French could freely decide to allow full non-Class-A IFR privileges to anyone with the CAA IMC Rating, if they felt like it. So it is possible for e.g. France to allow an FAA IR holder to fly IFR in a G-reg or F-reg plane - though it is unlikely.

I am not a lawyer but spoke to an aviation barrister the other day.

What suprises me is how often this sort of question comes up, yet there is no clear reference anywhere which summarises the privileges of the different combinations. The CAA carefully avoid commenting on the more contentious proposals. And anyone pushing the regulations isn't to publicise they are doing it (though e.g. IFR flight in France by UK IMCR pilots is apparently common... strange since France only allows IFR in the airways, according to an ATCO there recently!). As a result there is a lot of folklore going around.