Flying in France.

[jrs2-benson]

Hi there, I am after some advice concerning a flight from central england to Nantes in Frace. I have around 130 hrs PPL (JAR) experience and have a conplex (Piper Arrow at the moment) rating.

What route can you reccomend and what differences are there concerning praparation? (appart from the obvious differences in charts etc....)

Many Thanks

JRSB.

[Flying Boat]

jrs2

Do you want to stop enroute or non stop?

Got loads of info, depending on your required route.

Went from Jersey to Nantes for lunch in a PA28-161 a few months ago, took only 1.5 hrs. Le Cigalle is the restauarant to eat in, centre of town & excellent food, very busy, especially on a Sunday Lunch.

Drop me an Email & I will look up the info for you.

I'll also post the info for others to see.

FB:)

[OBK!]

Hi Benson,

Is this your first time to France? If so, you may find that the first time you look at a VFR chart...it's RED! Almost the whole of the country is covered with restriced/prohibited areas due to military movement. However, the reason why I mentioned this first is because it's nothing to worry about! Most of the time, these are not active, and ATC tend to tell you when they are. You can also ask the local FIS provider if they are "cold" or not.

That out the way, you'll find France to be a very aviation orientated country, and a great pleasure to fly in. The ATC is top notch, the French ATC having very clear diction and being very proficient and helpful. If you get into trouble, in my experience, they are always glad to help you out. I was caught in IMC once over some terrain. A quick call to a local ATC unit and I was receiving vectors into a circtui at a near by airfield :)

Obviously, a flight plan needs filing etc, I won't go into too much detail about that as you may already know the score about flight plans.

Nantes...

You'll find the airfield to be very nicely situated. The city is close by and there's the river that runs through the central business district. The airfield offers a co-located VOR, so you shouldn't have any problems getting there, and the ATC are, like I say, nice! If it's not too busy, they will probably respond to your tap on the back with a simple "report airfield in sight" maybe with an altitude restriction due to airspace. They sometimes insist on the use of the reporting points. These are named according to there relative position to the airfield.

Having a look at the chart, Nantes has NE, NW, E, W...etc No prizes for guessing that they represent cardinal directions on the compass! Don't say "Transiting via North West"...."November Whisky" is the correct phraseology...but I'm sure you would of guessed that anyway.

QFE and QNH....They give this abbreviation using the phonetic alphabet ..."Gulf Oskar L'Echoooo Keebec Novembre 'Otel 1019" (yes, you can expect to here it like that too, just thought I'd add the realistic phraseology!). They are very polite tho and fun to speak to.

I think that just covers it. Enjoy your trip, let us know how you get on :ok:

Cheers
Obk

[jrs2-benson]

Gosh, thanks for the prompt replys.

Flying Boat, I would like to go direct if possible, but I am not sure wether to go via Dover or the BHD to Skerry route. Since I am not IFR able, I need to keep my options open if the weather became a factor.

Many thanks

JRSB.

[IO540-C4D5D]

The extensive French military airspace tends to be inactive on Sundays, and perhaps Saturdays, and tends to be active on weekdays. The other day I flew to Biarritz along the west coast on a Sunday, through R31A1 etc.

However it is easy enough to establish whether a particular bit is active or not; just call the nearest ATC unit. If they don't know they will either find out or tell you who to call.

Contrary to frequent reports of unhelpful French, I have found them to be extremely helpful and courteous - though presumably they expect you to have similar radio manner to start with :O Usually they gave me a Flight Information Service which turned out to be really equiv. to the UK Radar Information Service (with a squawk) and very efficient.

For France it REALLY helps to gave a decent GPS, with an up to date large moving map showing all the airspace zones. At times, when they are active and the cloudbase is low, navigating around them and in between them would be exceedingly difficult otherwise. There are plenty of NDBs and VORs but not enough, and very few DMEs! And IFR is not allowed outside the airways - or so the ATC told me!

[OBK!]

Hi benson,

If you going to Nantes from Central England, you might want to enter the channel via SAM, get a service off Solent I think it is, and then over to Cherbourg (MP NDB). From there you can almost get a pretty direct routing to Nantes via Granville (NDB), Rennes (VOR), and to Nantes(VOR). It might be worth planning an entry via the entry/exit points. NW would probably be best for you. You can get Jep VFR Plates with RNAV and Geocords for each entry/exit points to help you find them.

What ever you decide, enjoy the trip.



fair winds
obk

[FougaMagister]

One of the reasons why French ATC is nice to GA traffic is that, as part of their training at the Ecole Nationale de l'Aviation Civile (ENAC) in Toulouse, ATCOs can train for their PPL for free, then get 12 free flight hours per year. No doubt most of them take advantage of it, so when you talk to them, you are talking to a fellow pilot... Talk about perks!

Even though I'm from Paris, I only got to fly in France for hr-building before embarking on CPL. I found the overall experience second only to the US in terms of facilities, ATC, attitude to flying, rules, airspace, costs, and... fun!

Some airfields will conveniently "forget" your landing fees - particularly if you buy fuel. I doubt, however, that it will be the case in Nantes, a commercial airport with a number of Regional Airlines and charter flights.

Happy landings!

[BlueRobin]

OBK - buy this year's charts. They've realised the problem with the bright pink/red colouring. Now they're really very readable and put ours to shame.

A set of French-issue ICAO charts cost about £45. I bought mine from Pilot Warehouse.

[OBK!]

BlueRobin,

Cheers for that, I'll have to remember the next time i go! However I've just taken a look at the website you gave, and it says the 12half's only give information upto 5000ft AMSL....I sometimes like to fly higher than this...What do I do to see if there's airspace knockin' about at 5500ft?

[Flying Boat]

As promised this is the comprehensive version to my PM.

Where are you flying from, as Nantes is on the west so a western route would be best? Unless you are hour building, flying via Dover is a bit of a long way round.

BHD to Skery is a bit of a problem if the VIS falls below 10km for the Class A airspace penetration and to the left is a French Danger area all the way from 50N to the coast, as IO540 said, it may not be in operation.

I agree with OBK, take the SAM – MP route. This is a common way for most people to fly.
Contact Plymouth Mil by phone the day before to see if the danger area is active, the British chart gives instructions for aerial contact, contact Plymouth Mil (124.15) ASAP, but south of 51°10N. You should be talking to Solent (120.225), so there would be no major problems.
Once you have reached the Magic 50°N you will then either be transferred to Brest Info (134.2) or to Deauville (119.35) that controls the Cherbourg area.
You could then fly down Normandy, overhead Avranches (LFRW) and straight to Nantes. Do not fly within 3km of Le Mont St. Michel, they got peed off with noisy little, low-level GA aeroplanes disturbing the peaceful monastic rock about 4 years ago so it is a no fly area, just like Sark.
You would be clear of ATC, apart from Brest info, from Valognes to 15NM away from Rennes. After that you will speak to Rennes Approach (124.8) and then Nantes Approach (129.87), culminating in the Tower (118.65). In the summer the Ground will most likely be active, it wasn’t in January on arrival but became active for departure (121.87).
If you wished to use nav aids, you can go MP (373) to RNE (112.8), then to NTS VOR/DME (115.5). The NDB at Granville, GV (321) has been turned off for 2 years, more than on, locals don’t use it.

The ATIS for both Rennes (126.12) and Nantes (126.92) can be clearly heard up to 40 miles away.

Seeing as NTS is a VOR/DME it is relatively easy to find the reporting points, coming from the North I reported at NW and W, careful of the no-fly areas near the airport, especially on a RWY03 approach. Local navigation is very easy due to the Loire, bodies of water, towers, power station and power lines. VFR aircraft less than 5.7t on RWY03 are not to land or take off before taxiway B.

FM is right the French ATC are very nice & obliging.

Nantes is a customs airport (08.00 - 20.00) the GA entry area is at a small white hut behind Apron ‘K’ (Pointe Pilote), with a couple of Gendarmes in it, you may have to ring the bell to get attention. I parked at Apron ‘I’ due to the resurfacing of ‘Nantes Aero’ and ‘K’.

Don't forget all your documents including VAT receipt for the aeroplane if Nreg, the French Customs can occasionally get very fussy over correct documentation. Now they are asking to see your Pilots Licence before letting you through to the plane in some airports, Dinard for one, in January the Gendarme just looked at my passport.

Landing fees must be paid in the main terminal at the info desk, avec les tres belle et petites filles.

If you fancied a stop I would suggest a stop in Jersey up & down, that way you can refuel at VAT free fuel rates & update your info/met at the club (where you park), with links to the airport Met Office & ATC, you can walk, to talk face to face with them in 10 minutes. The landing fees are £3 per 1/2 ton, so your plane would only cost £9, including 7 days parking.
The club flying members & instructors always fly around France & up to the UK Mainland, so are full of useful local knowledge.

If you fly to Jersey the ATC will let you fly SVFR in vis as low as 3km, in the Class A Airspace, so then BHD to SKERY would be a good option, although more directly, flying from Bournemouth BIA (339) we fly almost due South, 50 mins in an Archer.
Always call the CI zone (125.2) before 50N, usually Ortac, going South. Then approach (120.3) and twr (119.45). The Jersey VOR, JSY (112.2) is on the North East of the Island and the NDB, JW (329) is at the western end of RWY27, about 8 miles apart.

Flying from Jersey to Nantes I would fly DIN (114.3) – RNE (112.8) – NTS (115.5), dct. Talking to Jersey Approach, then Dinard Approach (120.15), Rennes Approach and finally Nantes, controlled all the way. Only 1.5 hours max.

As I said in my earlier posting, you must eat at Le Cigale with traditional French turn of the last century decor, an excellent restaurant, close to the city centre.

NAV2000 is a French GA info site, very useful.
Nav2000 Nantes link here:
http://www.nav2000.com/pf/detail.asp?session=938497097&oaci=LFRS

There is also a good link for aviation French provided by the Aeroclub d’Andaines, based at Bagnoles de l’Orne (Couterne), link follows:
http://www.webvivant.com/aero-andaines/vocab.html
http://www.webvivant.com/aero-andaines/vocab-radio.html

Enjoy the planning and the trip.
FB:ok:

[Sultan Ismail]

Flying Boat

Very interesting post FB, but for clarity please remove also from the first "vocab" URL.

Thank you

Sultan Ismail

[Flying Boat]

Done, didn't look like that when I typed it.
I guess it's one of those,"What the hell's it doing know?" moments.

FB:ok: