New EZY Alphanumeric c/s's

[ghost-rider]

How are you ATC people coping with them ?

Honest opinions requested please, both positive and negative.

Thanks.

[The Fat Controller]

They are not EASY to say once, let alone having to use them twice if we need to issue avoiding action !
However, like most changes we will get used to them, and find something else to moan about in the future......that's life in ATC.

[BEXIL160]

No real problems at all, but then I've been using them since we had things like DA B6ER flying:)

I must say though that I like EZY 2FM , sounds like my kinda of radio! :O :O

Rgds BEX

[flower]

They are rather a mouthful IMHO but as said previously I suppose we will get used to them.
I pity the aircrew who have to use them for the whole flight , at least I only have to use it for a few minutes :)

[5milesbaby]

I think we adjusted to them much EASYier than you guys and gals did as at least we had them permanently displayed in front of us. The first couple of days were the worst as trying to get you to answer the second time was difficult, but normally by the third :ok:

As has been said, we have seen many changes to callsigns over the years and gradually you'll get used to them. However I have already seen some potential 1261's with similarities to eliminate all possibilities of confusion.

EZY 1TV is the one I like, but nothing can ever beat the GB L05T we get everyday :E

[Mini Blue]

No real bother with the EZY's, but BRT1TS is a firm favourite round here!!

[ATCbabe]

Hate em!!!! Cant say them at all, especially when working 2 at the same time with virtually the same callsign. But like everything else will be used to them in 6 months, just in time for them to change again! :rolleyes:

[The Euronator]

Not a favourite but like the Ezy6yd, although it should be called Ezy6vd then I wouldn't have a problem remembering it...Easy Sex with VD...:O

[ghost-rider]

So do you think that they are actually causing more confusion than they were intended to reduce ?

[Spitoon]

ghost-rider talks about confusion but I guess he might also mean dangerous. Callsigns that need extra concentration just to say correctly take time away from doing the important stuff.

Does anyone do a trial of these callsigns (on a sim) before they're introduced?

[vintage ATCO]

Some of them are a bit of a mouthful but as some have said, we'll get use to them, probably sooner than the crews! :D

They must be better than having EZY235, 253, 325 on the freq at the same time!? :confused:

[ghost-rider]

Spitoon,

For the record, I think they could be a potential hazard ! They are causing absolute pandemonium with us and the airports, and the RPL alphanumerics don't always match what our scheduales say it should be ! :ooh:

This makes the crews life a whole ball of fun !

And how about this one ... EZY4VV ! It is actually "Four Victor Victor" but surely that would look like "Four Whiskey" on the radar label ! :uhoh:

[250 kts]

Dump em and go for a system similar to BAL. You use less in the number sequence and hopefully not run out of those and stick a different letter on the end depending on whether the flight is in or outbound-it works for BAL and has done so for many years.

The present ones were only good until lots of operators started to jump on the bandwagon which they now have.

[yaffs]

no real probs for me so far - just seem to have so many ezy c/s's on freq at the same time these days!!
the ezy2FM - reminds me of shooz!
and yep - the BRT1TS made me laugh - i asked the crew if it was a permanent c/s as it caused some laughter on the ground - he seemed non-plussed - i guess they only had "1TS" diplayed on the flight deck!

yaffs

[vintage ATCO]

ghost-rider

Is there a logic behind how they are allocated? We've been trying to work it but The Times crossword is easier! :D

Personally, I'm not bothered. Better than some of the very similar ones you use to have in the past but we had one of your chaps in our tower the other day who was obviously very against it.



--------------------
vintage ATCO
www.stevelevien.com

[ghost-rider]

Vintage ...

Is there a logic behind how they are allocated?

:D

Ha ! I wish !

One of our Capt's was given the task of compiling the alpha-numerics. I believe he used some sort of cyphering/encrypting program.

Allegedly the CIA are now interested in purchasing it ! ;)

As you correctly sussed, they bear absolutely no logic as per routes at all ! This was apparantly intentional ! :(

[BIG E]

Most of the ezy commercial flightnumbers are now 4 digit.Would a 4 digit number get round the majority of callsign conflictions?

[5milesbaby]

Only if you can guarantee a full set of callsigns which could not possibly run to confusion issues. I say this because BA use some 4 figure callsigns for LGW over the ocean, and for the old Flyer flights and they haven't thought one bit about them, and to begin with regularly were filed against to get them changed, but most still remain.

Unfortunately most flight numbers are consecutive for more than once a day flights, or return trips, and alas will occasionally be in a confusion situation.

[BIG E]

I guess there can be no guarantees as i understand some of the ezy flt nos conflicted with other operators as well as ezy.Personally i would have thought the logical thing to do would be to ammend the offending callsigns and leave the rest as is.But our chief pilot knows better.

[vintage ATCO]

The only four digit flight number I see, I think, is 8001. What's the significance of the four digit numbers? :confused:

[wobblyprop]

I don't know about you ATC peeps but listening to a (I guess an ex)Go crew leaving stansted getting in a muddle about EASY 26JQ(or similar) and giving up and saying "the one that just left, london 118.82"

I feel for you.

[atco-matic]

I like EZY1SH (ezy-ish!).

[ghost-rider]

Vintage ...

Due to the Go merger, and the fact we now have nearly 70 B737s, the old three digit c/s's wouldn't have worked apparantly.

So they decided to rehash it completely for the summer sched, and issue four digits as a commercial flight number.

I believe though that the c/s confusion potential using the four figures was horrendous, so the chief pilot wanted alpha-numerics - on everything !

The problem we have is the incredible way it was implemented within ! :rolleyes: Amateur to say the least !

Our systems in ops struggle to cope with the two c/s's, the airports expect commercial flight numbers, the RPLs don't always match, the crews expect one c/s only to find ATC expect another etc etc ! Hours of endless fun !

Some of the flights that are live filed as opposed to RPLd are deliberately filed as the commercial number by us, so that everyone is batting off the same wicket !

As I said before ... chaos reigns !

[250 kts]

So wouldn't a the same flight number in/out with just a change of letter on the end to denote in/out help to resolve the problem. eg.
EZY002A out and EZY 002B back. i know you wouldn't use A & B for obvious reasons-but much easier for ATC.

[ghost-rider]

250kts ...

Absolutely ! A bit more thought by the commercial dept would have been nice !

But what do they know about aviation ! :rolleyes:

[055166k]

Been following this with interest. Spanair, Iberworld, Futura all seem to manage with four-numeral callsigns and they are all very similar. There is no secret way to get round this, all you have to do is listen carefully and speak clearly....and maybe cut down on the message traffic. Our worst problem has always been overcontrol!

[Evil J]

If you are having a problem with the callsign/ flight number problem get in touch with EZY ops;they sent us this natty program that you can enter the flight number or callsign and it will tell you the other one (if you see what I mean) and the destination/route.

Personally I think are a bit of a mouthful initially but are less likely to cause confusion than just 3 numbers eg 253, 235 etc etc

[ghost-rider]

Evil J,

Is that the excel sheet 'callsign converter' ? If so, make sure it is v3.1 because the earlier versions have errors !!!

Call us if you need an update !

[eastern wiseguy]

I seem to remember a similar debate a few years ago when British Midland (and even before that when British Airways )went over to BMA8XF and BMA1ZB types of callsign.There was a lot of discussion about how difficult it was to get your tongue around ....now?? old hat ...I reckon the same will happen here ..just a time delay whilst we get used to them ..

[VectorLine]

Saw this one recently coming 'up the hill' on UM733

[FILTONFELLA]

Is this true (heard it through the grape vine):

A female pilot, after departing a busy a/f in the S.W, announces:
"Radar, GOE 6GG with you climbing FL100"
Male ATCO voice booms:
"Roger thank you, (pause), is it true that you're E A S Y ?"
Reply from unknown source (believed to be the male co-pilot)
"No you still have to buy her dinner first"

That must have raised a few....... smiles

[Max Angle]

Heard them on the r/t for the first time today and the was amazed to discover that some of the callsign number/letter combinations are the same as our (bmi) ones. Don't know if they are going to be in the same piece of sky at the same time but the controller called a Midland flight Easyjet several times in the space of a few minutes. Can't help thinking that it's asking for trouble to have the same sequence in use by different airlines who flying in the same location so often, these must be thousands of combinations of one number and two letters so why not use something different.

[Topofthestack]

Getting used to it like all new things but some of them are a mouthful. It would be helpful if someone could come up with a fool-proof callsign system so that EZY's for Luton and EZY's for Stansted don't end up on final for the wrong airport; this is particularly important where flights share the same arrival stack e.g. LOREL or ABBOT. Whilst we have an internal system to try and make sure it doesn't happen (the flight strip is highlighted and the callsign tag on the radar shows the destination) someone is going to make a mistake as sure as eggs are eggs! Perhaps the intial call to ESSEX should give the destination airport?

[250 kts]

I heard a rumour that they did want different callsigns for the 2 airports but were refused. Something to do with their AOC I think.

As I said earlier these alpha numeric callsigns were OK as long as there were only one or two operators using them. Come on EZY bite the bullet and go for the "Britannia" method asap.

[bagpuss lives]

Evil J - any chance of a copy of your callsign converter for a lowly and lost ATC'er? :)

[Evil J]

Its on the work computer so not sure if I will be able to do that but we got it diredctly from EZY ops so suggest you give them a ring and ask them to send it to you; they were very obliging to us!!

[bagpuss lives]

I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Thanks for your reply - much appreciated :)

[blondie118]

I have to agree that they are a bit of a mouthful and the scope for callsign confusion is greater.

I do agree with topofthestack about having different call sign configurations for SS and GW. I have not as yet put on on final for the wrong airport but I've come close!

I will apologise now to any easy jet pilots if I do this in the future, it's got to happen at some point.:} :}

[Grandad Biggles]

What's wrong with Brittania's system.
Alpha outbound and Bravo Inbound ? prefixed by numbers of course. Or is this Off-course!!:confused:

[Spitoon]

What's wrong with 4 digit trip numbers?

Sensibly allocated to avoid similar numbers being in the same country within a couple of hours of each other. That shouls sort it most of the time. Hey, you could even use one of the numbers to indicate which airport the aircraft are oprating in or out of.

Or any number of variations that would avoid the real danger of callsign confusion or the like. All you need to do is ask for the assistance of a controller when working out the callsign system!

[Elmer the Monk]

Perhaps we will get used to them eventually, however, I can admit that since their introduction I have missed more ATC calls to me, and answered more calls not intended for me than ever before. Obviously more concentration required; good way forward!

[no sig]

Topofthestack

This was indeed considered, we looked at giving all STN based a/c a different callsign, the proposal was 'jaffa' for the very reason you mention, however when it came to allocating another three letter identifier this posed a problem, nothing to do with the AOC. We probably could have asked ICAO for another three letter code, however, that in itself opens up a can of worms, and in the end was only dealing with part of the issue.

Your final suggest occurred to me to, why not get your SATCO to speak with our man in Luton?

[In trim]

As per the previous post, the initial requirement to move to Alphanumerics was due to the amount of (potential) confusion which was already out there....235, 253, etc. and a concern that it would be totally unmanageable when the Go routes adopted EZY callsigns.

My previous company used alphanumerics, and a lot of thought was put into how easy each callsign was to actually pronounce.....some are virtually impossible! However, given the size of the eJ operation (and timescale to introduce them), the main priority was around avoiding conflicts, and 'niceities' such as pronounciation were probably not considered.

To talk of an "out and back" system (A for outbounds and B for inbounds) doesn't really fit the eJ network, with multiple bases and (on the continent) many interlinked stations. ("Join the dots"!)

Of course in many areas, the fact that eJ were (because of the Go integration) forced to start using 4-digit commercial flight numbers may have actually resolved many of the conflicts anyway, without any need for the coding and de-coding.


:D

[timzsta]

I am sure that if I was expecting to land at Luton and got told "vectors down wind RH for 23" I would soon sus it and a gentle reminder that I am for the other field.

Buzz use to manage with alpha numerics, only the CDG had numbers, ie "Ukay 272". We had a nice card that had all the flight numbers on it and next to them the relevant callsign.

When was a Fighter Controller in the RN I sat down in my seat onboard one of Her Majesty's destroyers, to be informed by the Chief Ops Radar that our callsign for the day was Sierra Zero Zulu (have a go people - sit there and try saying Sierra Zero Zulu in a hurried fashion like what you have to when you say "localiser from the right, descend with ILS, 160 til four, 123.8... whilst adjusting the speed bug. selecting flap 5 and identing the ILS....." . After about 15 minutes of tongue twisting gymnastics the aircraft suggested I adopt the callsign "Zulu" which I duly did, cue much banter from the rest of the Ops room about "dont point that chinagraph at me" etc etc!!!!

[Max Angle]

There are clearly some conflicts with other airlines. I heard Midland 3AX and Easy 4 AX on freq. at the same time yesterday. Not very clever really.