ICAO designators

[terryJones]

I wonder about the mental state of the person responsible for the ICAO 'labels'.
How, for example does EGLL translate to London Heathrow, or EGCL to our local little field Fenland.
Would it have been too simple to use a method similar to the boat numbers we see, FH for FalmoutH, LT for LowestofT.
Unless I miss something, there is NO relationship to the location.
Knowing that PPruNe is a virtual 'Hive' of information, can some-one please explain :confused:

TJ

[Miserlou]

Good question and looking forward to seeing reply. Could it be along the lines of the yachting registration which start with a K like Gatwick's KK and then Heathrow as the second London airport being LL.

Incidentally, Danish airports run along the logical lines, EKCH-CopenHagen, EKBI-BIllund, EKAH-AarHus and the like. So what do you suppose Aalborg is? EKYT. And why? The RAF code for Aalborg was Yellow Target due to the Gestapo HQ during WW2.

Any-one else got historical relics?

[hptaccv]

...in Germany all I know is that the third letter (following the first two region coding letters) T is used to designate military airfields. An wild quess might be that it is also used to designate the size of the airfield, at least here. (Munich EDDM, Frankfurt EDDF, Stuttgart EDDS).

I figure that the designators are created by national authorites, so only my two pence worth in regards to germany...

[PPRuNe Radar]

You could always do a search in the hive of information ??? ;)

For example ... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48989&highlight=location+indicators)

[Spitoon]

The Location Indicators are used, amongst other things, for sending messages like flight plans between ATC units. In days gone by messages were sent through a mechanical switching system that used the letters in the Indicator to route the message to more and more specific locations as you move to the right. Some was based on logic others were (AFAIK) more arbitary.

Using Heathrow (EGLL) as an example - E indicates that the address is in the northern European region, G that it is in the UK (perhaps originally for Great Britain) and the latter two letters the specific aerodrome. I would guess that LL was used for Heathrow because it was London's airport. The airports around Heathrow were allocated L for the third letter and a different fourth letter because messages destined for these airports went through Heathrow's switching centre. I can only guess that Gatwick got KK because it ends in K. Manchester is CC - your guess is as good as mine!

These days message switching is done by computers and the physical route of cables is largely irrelevant but the Location Indicators assigned years ago still stand. Those that are allocated today seem to follow a far more logical origination.

Well, that's what I got taught years ago and a bit of educated guesswork. Anyone else got any better reasons???

[A310driver]

How about BGBW (Narsarssuaq, Greenland) up the famous fjord which the allies coded Bluie West One in WWII.

Or SCIP Easter Island after Isla Pasqua

[Hartington]

One of the links above eventually took me here http://home.hccnet.nl/de.bock/icao/icaoairp/kcod.htm#l . Can someone explain the difference between EGLL (London Heathrow) and EGGL (London Heathrow Airport)?

[Duke of Burgundy]

It`s a mistake along with quite a few others on that site. EGGL has not been allocated as far as I am aware.

[oxford blue]

First Letter = General World Area Example E = Northern Europe, L = Southern Europe

Second Letter = Country Code Example EG = Gt Britain ED = Germany (Deutschland) EH = Holland LF = France LE = Spain (Espana)

Third Letter is usually an indication of latitude band in UK, though there are many exceptions. The letters go further through the alphabet as you go further south. For instance Edinburgh and Glasgow are both P, Isle of Man, Blackpool and East Midlands are N, Peterborough is S, Oxford and Dunsfold are T, Northolt is W, and so on.

Fourth Letter = Initial of Airport Example Kidlington is EGTK, Shawbury is EGOS, and so on.

However, there have been many departures from the the code for 3rd and 4th letters. Major airports are a double letter, LL for London , BB for Birmingham, SS for Stansted and so on. Military airports are also often exceptions.

Other countries also have their own pecularities. Germany is ED for civilian airports but ET for military ones. Germany uses EDD for international airports EDDS = Stuttgart EDDF = Frankfurt, etc.

There is an overall logic to it, but it's got corrupted over the years.

[Duke of Burgundy]

Oxford Blue - Spitoon`s description is pretty accurate particularly regarding the third letter.

Just to put you straight about your deduction that there is a geographical and alphabetical link the "P" in the Scottish indicators refers to Prestwick EGPK.

The "N" in the northern ones refers to the now expired Preston Air Traffic Control Centre whose indicator was EGNN.

The "S" in the Eastern English ones refers to Stansted EGSS.

There are a series of military aerodromes having the third letter either "D" "W" "U" "V" and "X" of which Northolt is one.

The "T" in Dunsfold`s referred to EGTT the London Terminal Control Centre.

Hope you`re still awake
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PaperTiger]

Alrighty then, someone 'splain this one:
EGYP Mount Pleasant Airport South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands :confused:

[Hippy]

Alrighty then, someone 'splain this one:
EGYP Mount Pleasant Airport South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

Because, as someone further up the thread said, the code allocation is/was to do with the way signals are routed over the AFTN (Aeronautical Fixed Telecomunications Network). Messages to MPA are routed through a hub in the UK, along with Marham (EGYM), Coltishall (EGYC), Cranwell (EGYD), and other Mil stuff, including HM Ships (EGYY).

Now, who wants to discuss the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th letters?

Hippy.

[dv8]

Used http://www.ar-group.com/icaoiata.htm to look up EGYP and it came up with

Stanley Falkland Islands, Saudi Arabia

:confused:

[Hippy]

Doh! Waht a mistaka to maka!

The rest of the info is correct, and it does correctly identify EGYP as Mount Pleasant, with the reference to Stanly as the city(?) it serves. I guess it meant to say: Mount Pleasant, Stanley, Falkland Islands, South Atlantic

ICAO for Stanley apt. is SFAL, idicating a South American routing for messages.

Hippy.

[A. Leron]

All I know is that EGGP is Liverpool. Not because it has anything to do with John Lennon but because GP stands for Goodison Park where Everton play. Blackpool also follows the same trend with the 'NH' of EGNH standing for 'Nice Holiday'

I know its true cos a bloke told me in the pub.:O

[Airking]

The third letter is sometimes used to relate the airfield to an certain Aeronautical Information Service local office.
E.G.
EDDS AIS Office serves all EDS. and EDT. - Airfields
EDDM " all EDM. and EDN, - Airfields
Thats why Friedrichshafen was changed from EDTY (nowadays Schwaebisch Hall) to EDNY (transferred from EDDS to EDDM)
By the middle of this year however, all local AIS Office in Germany will be closed and replaced by a central unit near Frankfurt.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

On a topical note, I see that Baghdad (Saddam Intl) is ORBS and I wonder what sort of routeing those B52s out of EGVA are filing for it ...:confused: