How long are radar/voice tapes held?

[PeterZee]

Just a quick question that a search of the forums has not revealed the answer to...

In the UK, how long are radar/voice tapes of ATC operations held? And out of idle curiosity, what on earth type of media (ie mag tapes, hard drives, ??) do they use to store that much information?

Thanks in advance!

[Bern Oulli]

A quick flick through the UK Air Navigation Order (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393__Dec02.pdf) reveals that, for voice recordings it is 30 days.

"ANO Article 105

(7) The person in charge of any air traffic service equipment shall preserve any record made in compliance with paragraphs (3) or (5) for a period of 30 days from the date on which the terms or content of the message or signal were recorded or for such longer period as the CAA may in a particular case direct."

Sorry, but I fell asleep looking for the other bit.

For voice, the recording medium is usually magnetic tape running through a 16 or 32 channel recorder (copes with multi-frequenct, intercom and phone input plus a time stamp channel). No good in your four track stereo!

[AlanM]

Bern - you are without doubt the most knowledgable ATCer I know! (And I know Granny Smith!)

Go and enjoy your weekend off now fella!!

[PeterZee]

Bern Oulli,

Thanks for indulging my curiosity,

PZ

[PPRuNe Radar]

ANO Article 5 also covers Radar I believe as it refers to ATS equipment in general.

CAP 670 Air Traffic Services Safety Requirements Section Rad 09 'Radar Recording Equipment Requirements' also specifies that radar equipment recordings (required where equipment is covered by Article 105) should be kept for 30 days.

[Red Four]

As I understand it, it is not yet a 'Requirement' as such that radar recordings are held, but a recommendation. I believe that there are a few units around with radar, but without the facilities for radar recording.

[POMPI]

The tapes at NERC look like giant VHS tapes and hold about 92Gb of data.

[BDiONU]

Yes they do but those tapes are NOT a legal requirement. What they record is EVERYTHING done on a workstation (every workstation which is logged on). Every mouse click, every change to range or centre, all the landlines and all the frequencies. Big Brother IS watching you!!

[FWA NATCA]

Peter,

For comparison sake, voice and data tapes in the US are kept for only 14 days, UNLESS something happened or an FOIA is in the works. Our data is recorded to Hard Drives then every 24 hours backup to small Dat tapes.

Mike

[POMPI]

Yep, I know Big Brother watches, I used to test the RRS and a lot of the other stuff too. Spent a few years at NERC

[Bear 555]

Guys,

Working in the Middle East, the 'customer' here has a digital hard-disk system which archives all voice and radar picture data onto DVD's, which are kept for 32 days minimum.

This is an upgrade from their previous systems with the Racal 64 tape decks, and the old ICR 32 before that.

I did hear some discussion about digital recording not being approved for civilian use in the uk yet?

Bear

[granny smith]

This new digital system is pretty good. Audio recordings are clear and with all the different channels available one can filter out the cr@p and (hopefully) hear the important stuff.

It also brings home just how much incriminating stuff is picked up by the permanently "hot" microphones. You have been warned!

AlanM - how awfully nice of you but I agree Bern is definitely the more knowledgeable by a long way - I just know how to bullsh1t properly!

regards

Granny

[Bear 555]

granny,

Yeah it is pretty good quality playback. Still difficult though, to transcribe in English a controller and pilot who's first language is Arabic. All part of the fun of being here.

For sure that is one of the biggest benefits of the digital system - just flick it back 10 seconds again and again and again and again.......

Bear555

[PPIMan]

There are places in the British Isles where DVD recording takes place also.

This has replaced the old ICR64 tape decks - plastic discs are much more versatile.

[denzilmatic]

My God!!! DVD in UK ATC?? Whatever next?

You're making me scared.... bring back the tin cans and string!