Oxford's VFR RT tutor

[No. 2]

Hi there,

Has anyone used the VFR RT tutor from Oxford aviation? I would like to know if it's any good, especially at the modest price of £70:eek:

Thanks,
No. 2

[AerBabe]

Ouch... no...
CAP 413 is pretty easy to follow and is well laid out. Combine that with some listening in to local air traffic and you'll be fine. It really isn't as difficult as it seems.

Find another student to practise with - taking it in turns to play ATC and pilot. You'll find it a real help when you know what reply you expect to hear. I make practise position reports etc when I'm driving too.

[ajsh]

Although I have neither purchased the product nor indeed heard it, I agree entirely with AerBabe.

Aviation VFR RT communications are really nothing to worry about. Practice as suggested, as often as possible even on ones own. If you don’t already know it, complete knowledge of the phonetic alphabet is essential however.

My final comment is that – as with everything – with practice comes competence, with competence comes speed and it is amazing how helpful controllers can be if you are both competent and quick…..

[AlanM]

Well said all....

......why not take the £70 - and use it to entertain your fave QFI/ATCer in the pub talking in VFR RT speak.

With most QFI's I know you could get a couple of nights free tuition for your money!!

[High Wing Drifter]

This is purely a personal opinion as all other reviews I have read contradict my view.

The Oxford RT set is good...well good(ish). It has most information but the presentation is very dull. Yes there are nice graphics and lots of voice and stuff but it is too slow. It insists on reading out aloud the text that is quite plain to read and takes an age over it, making any progress frustratingly slow. The navigation is quirky and one mistake means you have to laboriously work back though stuff you have just done in order to get the bit you want. The examples are OK but, as pointed out, absolutely no different from what you can read in CAP413, which is a free download.

The RT side of things will just suddenly 'click' after a few flights under FIS and landing away, so long as you keep reading and swotting up after every flight so that it becomes obvious to you what to say and listen for.

FWIW, I found the Thom RT book the best single source of info thus far.

[TheFox]

Or get it free from here :-

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf

[No. 2]

Cheers for that everyone. And yes, Aerbabe, I may have also caught myself a few times practising on my bike and in the car! Phew! I'm glad other people are owning up to it-I thought I was going mad for a minute:)

Yes you're quite right about constant practice. It's just that I like to get the old RT perfect! I'm not at all scared of using the radio but I like to sound reasonably professional when I do. For example, I don't often get chance to fly in the week so LARS and MATZ don't get much action.

Perhaps I'll get some practice in on the the way to work tomorrow!

Thanks again,

No. 2

[Ronbmy]

I'm glad other people are owning up to it-I thought I was going mad for a minute

What do you mean, Going Mad?. Join the club.

At least the RT consists of regular format procedural calls.

All you can do is practise. If possible with someone, even if they are just reading from a crib sheet.

Practise the phonetics until you can stagger home from the pub and still recite your address in phonetics. Always use phonetics on car registrations.

Remember to keep your voice at a steady level. You would be amazed at how many professional operators voices jump an octave or two when something isn't quite right or when rushed.

Be like me, have to learn morse at 20 words per minute, trying to remember every Q and Z code in the book. This is during summer and your driving around town centres with everybody looking at you.

Insanity Rules OK

Just remember to smile and enjoy it.
:O

[GoneWest]

2 - we are all assuming that you want this for "Student Pilot" purposes.

I seem to remember (though haven't played the disk for some 6 months) that the Oxford CDRom was geared to ATPL Communications exams rather than PPL exams. Problem?? POSSIBLY, yes.

The ATPL exams are based on ICAO ATC principles and procedures - which are based on CAP413 version ONE.

The UK National ATC principles and procedures are based on CAP413 current edition (THIRTEEN).

There have been some substantial changes (for the better) over the years.

[High Wing Drifter]

Oxford CDRom was geared to ATPL Communications By ATPL Comms you mean IFR? The CD we were referring to is the "VFR and VFR UK Airspace Supplement" two CD set.

[GoneWest]

No, I don't mean IFR. There is a VFR Communications paper at ATPL level.

Your phrase "VFR UK Airspace Supplement" seems to confirm what I was saying.

[High Wing Drifter]

Ah okidoki. There is no difference then, all in the VFR CDs are relevant to anybody traversing UK airspace VFR or SVFR stylee - PPL or CPL. I am pretty sure you will need to know the whole content to feel confident about not only passing your exams but also of dealing with any situation efficiently. I just don't think Multimedia cuts it as a training aid.

[No. 2]

One of the reasons I was curious about the CD is that, unlike CAP413 which doesn't talk back to you, you get practice at listening and responding. You don't get to practice that aspect while staggering home from the pub reciting car registrations:) But if, as High Wing Drifter pointed out, it's very slow then it may not be as helpful in that respect.

Anyway let the debate continue.....

[AerBabe]

No, but as I said in my earlier post:
"Find another student to practise with"... :p

[GoneWest]

AB - can I practice with you?? Forget the R/T though.:eek:

[No. 2]

AerBabe-couldn't agree more. However, I don't really get to see many fellow pilots at the moment due to the fact that I have to travel 100 miles to get to Filton. Also the club with whom I fly isn't really a flying school, as such, so you don't really see many students floating about. In fact the club is a tiny portacabin and you can only get a few people in at a time, so you're lucky if you get to see anyone at all!

Right I'm getting off the subject a little now. Speaking of which, GoneWest, what exactly were you intending to pracitice with the lady?:)

[Chilli Monster]

No.2

Drop me a line when you've got your next couple of lessons. If you're prepared to pay £70 for a CD-ROM save your money, buy me a couple of beers in the Millhouse (top of the A38 by the Filton turn off) and we'll talk R/T - or you can always pop across the airfield and see me in work :)

[Keef]

I reckon AerBabe's suggestion is the right one. Sit with another keen pilot (or friendly ATCer) and pretend you're on a long and complicated routing. Do all the chat for real (and hope the other person can give you some tricky situations to talk your way out of). I learned morse by a similar method aeons ago, and it stuck.

Reciting car registration numbers will teach you the NATO phonetic alphabet, but you need something more "real" for the procedural stuff. Live practice every time! With CM you'll learn the right way and quickly; with AB you might have more fun but probably learn less RT ;)

Or sit in the back seat with a couple of experienced lags on a trip. If you were in the South East, I'd have a suggestion for Wednesday.

[AerBabe]

Steady on Keef. I'm old, mature and responsible now. :p

[Fat Frank]

I have the two CD set for 42 quid if you're still interested, which is about what it should cost in the first place IMHO. I agree with most of the comments made, it's not at all bad but it's not exactly revolutionary either.

[No. 2]

Thanks for offering Fat Frank, but I think I'll have to pass on that. I need the money to get my shoes re-soled for a start.

Though I may take up Chilli Monster's offer to come by the tower(I pressume that's what you meant?)

No. 2