Frustrating FAA rules!

[FlyingForFun]

I know rules are rules, and we have to work with them. But that doesn't stop me being frustrated.

In December 2001, I got an FAA license based on my foreign (UK JAR) license. This was before the recent introduction of the requirements to get the CAA to verify the authenticity of my foreign license - it was a simple case of meeting an examiner, doing some paperwork, and handing over some cash.

Then I lost my FAA license.

I searched the FAA website, and found a form for obtaining a replacement for a lost license. It was very simple - fill in the form, send it to the FAA together with a cheque (sorry, check) for the massive sum of $2, and wait for a replacement. Problem 1 - I don't have a cheque book which I can use to write a cheque in US dollars. Problem 2 - the form needs either a social security number (which I don't have, since I don't live or work in the US) or my pilots license number (which was on the license which I'd lost). Fortunately, a friendly PPRuNer came to my assistance (thanks, if you're reading this!) on both these matters, and within a week or two I had everything I need. A quick trip to the Post Office, then wait for the replacement.

Yesterday, I arrived home to find a letter from the FAA. In order to replace my license, they need the CAA to confirm the validity of my UK license. Which means filling in all the paperwork I thought I'd avoided, and sending the CAA a cheque. Then, I have to turn up at an FSDO in person to collect my replacement. Exactly the same as if the FAA had never heard of me to start with!

These rules must be annoying for anyone who is actually planning on flying in the US. But right now I'm not sure what my plans are. I might go to Florida to do some flying this Autumn. Or Texas is another possibility. I don't know which FSDO to arrange to collect my license from, or when. Or maybe I'll go to South Africa, in which case I won't be able to collect it at all. All I want is a copy of a document which they've already given me!

Ok, I know it's my own fault for being stupid enough to lose it in the first place. But thanks for letting me vent my anger here!

FFF
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[drauk]

Given that the process seems to be pretty well defined and other threads suggest the interaction is a timely one, why not just wait until you know if, when and where you're going flying in the US, then apply for it and collect it when you're there?

[FlyingForFun]

Yes, drauk, that's what I'll do, because I have no choice.

I hope the FAA's record-keeping is good, though. A very kind gentleman who I have never met, and had never spoken to before, "gave" me $2 to get around the problem of me not being able to write a US Dollar cheque. If, by the time I'm able to collect the license, the FAA have lost their record of the fact that I've already paid this $2, I will not be happy - not because $2 is much money, but because of the hassle which both myself and the other gentleman have had to go through to get this money to them.

Oh well.

FFF
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[slim_slag]

Well FFF, if you were a US taxpayer, and so paid for the FAA services you use when you are here on holiday, you would have a US Dollar bank account and a US dollar cheque book to pay your measly $2.

Maybe we should start charging realistic FAA fees for services provided to non US taxpayers? That would include landing fees, en route fees, weather fees etc etc etc. Just like what happens to me when I fly in the UK, where I also pay UK tax.

So while you are thanking people, pay a thought to those of us who are subsidising the loss of your licence, which cost you how much?? :)

Sorry, just had to say it. Quit whining and pick your licence up when you get here. Just had to say that too. :)

[FlyingForFun]

Slim_slag, you are, of course, completely right. I wish the CAA were as efficient, helpful and generally as useful as the FAA, and aviation in the UK and other places has a lot to learn from the US.

And at least I know where not to come for sympathy next time!:D :mad: :D

FFF
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[MLS-12D]

I have recently been told by the FAA that I will have to go through the verification process before I ttend at Orlando's FSDO to have my existing FAA restricted private certificate (issued on the back of my Canadian glider pilot license) amended to reflect PPL(A) privileges (which I did not have in Canada at the time I originally obtained the FAA certificate).

Seems like rather a waste of time, frankly, and I don't see how this will do anything to enhance US national security. However, realizing that the restricted certificate is a privilege, not a right, I'm just going to go along with their requirements and make the best of it.

Like you say, FFF, the USA has one of the better aviation regulatory schemes (though not quite as good as we have it here in Canada).

MLS-12D

[slim_slag]

FFF,

Sorry if I was a bit harsh, but I hadn't had my first cup of coffee for the day. I've also just worked out my US Federal tax bill for 2002, which if I was to give to you in a salary payment would put you firmly in the UK 40% tax bracket :mad:

However I think my points are valid, and I reserve my sympathy for people with real problems.

I think it's great that foreign pilots come to the US and pump money into the economy via flying schools etc. I know of several who are very grateful for that extra income right now. I also think it's great that fellow pilots can appreciate what the US has to offer, and I am happy to subsidise that in my roundabout way. But, given what happened a year or so ago at the hands of foreign pilots, I don't think the extra FAA burden is that unreasonable. All they want you to do is

1) apply in advance so they can check to make sure that you actually have a pilots licence
2) ask you to turn up in person so they can make sure that you are who you say you are.

and there is always that measly two bucks :)

The FAA are far better at implementing reciprocal ICAO flight licencing issues than any other regulatory body in the world I can think of, including the UK CAA who are actually a lot better than the rest themselves.

For what it's worth, I was going to send you a $2 cheque when you first asked the question on another forum, but US "checks" have names and addreses on, and I like to remain anonymous so I can jump on people :) :)

[AC-DC]

Slim_Slag

I have an FAA backed on my CAA just like many other. The FAA has checked the validity of my paper work when they gave me their paper work. I can not see the logic, why do they need to verify it again? They have the details. If they don't like what they see it is much more simple to say...:p

[Keef]

I must say I'm a bit baffled. You're not applying for a first-time issue, but for replacement of a lost certificate. Your details should still be on file at an FAA office somewhere.

I suppose the lesson is "keep a copy" so that you can quote the precise details, and maybe you wouldn't need to go through that palaver.

I just hope I never lose my FAA certificate!

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

In the past pilots would turn up to the FAA office (you could walk in at any time with non of the CAA polava before Sept. 11, although now you cannot turn up without them knowing about you). You would show your ICAO licence to an FAA warm body that had no idea what he/she was looking at. Some licences are a bit of paper, some are in a brown pleather folder, some are only issued with a valid medical, some are issued but have a separate medical etc. Well, nothing against the FAA as they should hardly have to be aware of all the different licences under ICAO and their individual requirements/laws. So what mostly happened is that they would just get you to fill out a form and then issue a restricted licence willy nilly. In fact I know someone who was issued one on an expired CAA licence!

Now they have realized the error in their ways and have put measures in to verify the reality of the licence put up for a restricted licence. It is still free, there are no flight tests and no writtens..........you just have to fill out a form on the internet and await the process. The fact that the CAA charges a fee is not the fault of the FAA, and is understandable for the additional work they have.

It could be the other way round when an FAA pilot wants to fly in the UK........have to do two writtens and a skill test as long as you have 100 hours or if not, all the bloody PPL writtens when you hold a PPL already!!!!!!!! :eek:

Trouble is, we have taken the FAA system and the ease of it for granted for so long, that as soon as they make us do a little work for something they get nothing but groans and moans!:rolleyes:

[englishal]

In the old days you could indeed just walk in. When I got mine, the guy was sat across the other side of the office typing it up, he shouted across "what licence do you have....what ratings do you have"...he never checked my JAA licence. However as the FAA one is invalid without the JAA one, then it would have done me no good to add a few :D. Indeed I went in with my mate when he was getting his issued, and at the time, his licence was with the CAA in Gatwick, 5000 miles away. He still got the FAA airmans certificate issued, but of course couldn't use it at the time.

You can check some details about yourself on the FAA webiste, for example ratings. It won't give you any certificate numbers or anything though. I believe your FAA cert number is made up of your foreign licence number....I think.....I haven't got my licence here to check but it sort of rings a bell......

good luck with your crusade,

EA:D

[Long Beach CFII]

001 405 954 3261 is the phone number to call to get through to the FAA Airman Certification Branch in Oklahoma City.

Ask for a Fax of your details, and tell them that you have to fly an N-reg in the UK or something and you should be able to talk them into send you a temporary authorization lasting 60 days.

Ultimately you will have to splash out with $2 to get a hard copy.

Peter

I think Oklahoma is 5 or 6 hours behind UK time. This office will close at 3:30pm CST

[MLS-12D]

I received an e-mail from the FAA, confirming that they had verified my Canadian PPL and authorizing the FSDO to endorse my restricted certificate accordingly.

This took about two weeks, total ... pretty efficient and painless. :)

[FlyingForFun]

Peter - thanks for the number, I will give them a call. I really don't mind the $2 charge, it's mainly having to nominate an FSDO that's a pain. But, as others have said, it's hardly the biggest problem in the world, is it? Still, a quick phone-call won't do any harm to see if it can be avoided since they already have all my details. And if it can't be avoided, I'll just pick the license up whenever I'm next in the US.

FFF
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[FixedWing]

I'm surprised that you need to go through this process for a replacement of your certificate. They aren't issuing you a new license. The license already exists and you have those privileges. You're just getting a new copy.

Sounds like what they are doing is without authority. But there is a lot of that going around in the USA at the moment. Fight it or submit. Personally I’d fight but then that is just my nature. :)

Stephen