Historic Pprune posting from on board LH418

[Algy]

Good morning all Ppruners,

savour the moment - you are now looking at a posting direct from seat 12G on 747-400 D-ABTE operating Lufthansa 418 Frankfurt-Washington - the world's first ever internet-enabled commercial passenger flight. That's not just e-mail, I'm sitting here surfing the web on a laptop just as usual, except it's also a wireless LAN here in the cabin - very cool indeed.

Algy (why not drop me a private mail through Pprune right now and let's see if it really works)

[Tcas climb]

Algy

I sent you a mail, hows the dindin? What are the movies on board?

[BahrainLad]

Great stuff. Here comes the future!

I gather this is the connexxion by Boeing system? Apparently it's superiour to the Airbus system which only allows email/sms access?

[FlapsOne]

How much is that costing?

[IFTB]

Congrats Algy, indeed historic. Bet you the connection charges cost you a fortune or is LuftHansa doing a special deal?

Have a safe flight!

[newswatcher]

IFTB< from the BBC(15/1):

While the initial trial was free, Mr Carson said airlines were looking at a variety of payment options for the full commercial service.

Some were likely to include the cost in the price of a business ticket, others may add a surcharge and some airlines were considering using pre-paid cards for those that just want to check e-mail or catch up with news.

No actual cost values given!

[Algy]

It's free until mid-April. Eventual plan is 30-35 euros/dollars for unlimited access per flight.

Sweet Home Alabama is the movie, which I haven't got time to watch as I'm a hard working journalist (no, not often you see those words together - thought I'd save you all the trouble!)

Gotta go now, so much champagne, so little time.:)

[126,7]

Lost contact with DLH418 today. Should have emailed them the atc-clearance instead of trying to call them on the radio........

[M.Mouse]

Lost contact with DLH418 today. Should have emailed them the atc-clearance instead of trying to call them on the radio........

Perhaps the aircraft needed rebooting.

[patrickal]

How can they allow wireless lan in the cabin and at the same time say that anything that emits a radio signal (ie. Cell phones) is a danger? What kind of wireless technology are they using? Is it really radio, or an infrared signal. If it is really radio, is it 802.11 B, Bluetooth, or something other? Reallll Curious.

[Max Angle]

Great isn't it, the punters have sat phone and now internet access and a lot of the drivers are still dealing with HF up the front.

[5150]

PROVE IT................!

[Algy]

Whaddaya mean 'prove it'? Trust me, I'm a journalist!;)

(And I'm still up here...)

[ATC Watcher]

AttTEntion DLh356
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ugeriluwrbvcilrguv ;iJKSHDGDGYEUYEHBDHJJEJEIIK3M774T564784899885465573VVVFHIINM DIU3JJF2 ;OIH42ON

[ThIS iS THE fIRST inTernet R/T meSSage coMing from BomBay AtC
If You Cannot Comply Call Us on HF... }

[Robert Vesco]

Great !

So..... the inevitable question : does this wireless LAN also reach as fas as the flight deck ? :D

[Tan]

patnickal

The built in equipment is shielded against interacting with the aircraft systems, the carry on products are not.

Their are folks on this forum that can give you a more technical explanation but basically that's it.

[scroggs]

So maybe now, at last, I'll be able to order a coffee from the flight deck without breaking FAA rules! Shame I've got to buy a laptop to do it.

[AtlPax]

Algy - why don't you let a crewmember post something? (Unless they're shy) :)

This is fabulous, though! 35 bucks (or euros) per flight isn't bad at all, either. I'll have to get a laptop, now.

[TimS]

Well I'm impressed !!!!!!!:p

[Out Of Trim]

Wonder if the LAN works back in economy...? ;) :D ;)

[Memetic]

I'm waiting for the headlines, "Fighters scrambled to intercept internet aircraft." in response to the panic that will ensue when somone is seen reading mission orders for an online game of "Counter Strike".
-----

There are some interesting posts on in flight net access here. (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/16/0148236&mode=thread&tid=126) (www.slashdot.org)

----
Edited as the system (or a moderator?) merged two of my posts (Made in quick sucession) resulting in a change of meaning.

[Few Cloudy]

Zurich rag today quoted DLH spokesman as saying that the strength of emissions is only 1% of mobile phone emissions and you don't get the potentially harmful peaks of power which a mobile causes but a continuous signal.

It's true that space signals don't need to be very powerful. Seems they use a sat. seeking array.

[Buster Hyman]

Interesting point Memetic , what if you are playing something like Counter Strike over the net & taunting an opponent...only to be escorted off at the nearest airport, which doesn't happen to be your destination???:eek:

[ATPMBA]

Now all we need is a post from the International Space Station.
:D

[Tonic Please]

Does this mean then, that crews with laptops on board (if they are allowed through security)....can come into PPRuNe chat, and have a lil chin wag (or finger excersise rather)...whilst they are busy digesting their meal?

If that would be allowed, then tell me, and I will be in the chat room! Be quite a nice thing to be doing with someone all the way up there! :)

Smooth skies... :cool:

[boofta]

Damn.Is it too late to send you my bomb scare!!!
Have you landed already? Or did it go off?

Seriously, again something to think about in this time of high
tech do you dare ignore my warning?

The system will reach it's ultimate stupidity when the pilots
fly from home via satcom. What do you think Orvil, will it work?

The adventure continues.

[Tonic Please]

IMHO, flying from a set position, with passengers up there, would be possible somehow (isnt it already? Ive seen things on discovery about it). I do not think many passengers would like it tho! Perhaps, this would be a good poll to do!?!

Also, pilots are where they are now because of their love of flying, and not just the money, whether they think they earn a lot or not....so to suddenly fly a plane with 40 people on it like your son is on flight sim at home is NOT fun at all, and will kill the industry I think.

This hi-tech business just doesnt stop does it !! At least let humans do SOMETHING instead of sitting at home pressing buttons :rolleyes:

Smooth skies all (unless you are flying from home :D )

Dan

[progolfer]

I wonder when the ops manual will be ammended to state that the flight deck is a porn free environment?

[paulo]

So, where from here:

WebNav: UI to see maps, nav stuff, that kind of thing.

CockpitCam: Now, everyone can ride the jumpseat!

Open LAN: Totally open LAN amongst passengers - play multiuser games, swap files etc.

'Online Traveller': Fill out immigration forms, customs forms etc (bit tricky cos' of lack of digital signatures standards, but eventually)

Any more?

There must be loads of neat things beyond the first step of giving people web access.

[admiral ackbar]

I thought that the reason that cell phones were banned in the air was less because of RF interference (not that they don't cause any, but not that much) and more due to the fact that the cell phone companies are not capable of billing the calls properly since they have a hard time figuring out which cell the phone is in.

This new service just reinforced that theory, in my opinion.

[Xeque]

Why did this link stop? I just found it and I loved it!. All that bull**** about not using electronic equipment!! The real danger is Fred with his roaming cellphone and the annoyance of the ring tone (ever been in a cinema in Bahrain?).

Keep this thread going guys.

[Memetic]

admiral ackbar

more due to the fact that the cell phone companies are not capable of billing the calls properly since they have a hard time figuring out which cell the phone is in.

As i understand it that problem is more that the network gets confused seeing the same phone in lots of cells - its designed to see it in sevral ajacent sells but not 10's of cells as you can get if you are high enough. It also does things like set the fraud detection systems going as one cause of being in multiple cells is having your phone cloned (Not supposed to happen with GSM but...)

What do you mean by the following? :confused:

This new service just reinforced that theory, in my opinion.

[admiral ackbar]

I meant that the REAL reason why cell phones are banned has less to do with RF interference than with lost profits for the cell phone companies.

The fact that they let wireless internet be used on the plane, which uses similar frequencies than cell phones reinforces that theory.

I hope I have cleared up my logic. ;)

[lanciaspezzata]

Do you think if I paid them enough money they'd let me fly and land the aircraft in Washington from seat 165g instead of being bored stupid by simulator stuff?

I would try harder than usual as it's my real ass on the line for a change.

[flybonanza]

Time will show how unpleasant this new idea is. Up to now at least the flight was a time you could relax, have drinks and see the movie. No more my friends, from now on you must read the emails, answer them, do work and no fun. No excuses allowed you have internet access at just 35 Euros. What a bargain for the company:) I remember the time my company provided me with a "free" mobile phone. Only later did I realise how this made me much more available to the boss:mad: We are stupid and get conned once again.

[InTheAir]

I work for a company which provides VoD for Hospital Patients via personal LCD screens. At present we are busy working on a project to have these units Internet enabled.

I, therefore can appreciate the amount of hardwork that goes into supportiong this service.............but wireless!!! How they achieve such reliability with wireless I can't seem to comprehend. Are they planning on having an I.T Support person oboard every flight?

BTW, if anyone here works for Connexions......and is actively recruiting....I'd like to hear from you :rolleyes:

[Captain Stable]

I am concerned that we haven't yet had a post from Algy to let us know they landed safely... :eek:

[Algy]

Tks for your concern Capt Stable, I am indeed back flying the desk in sunny Sutton.:(

Coincidentally I flew on the internet ship (D-ABTE) back home - there was far less interest in the system eastbound. Seems scoff, movies, kip, the aurora etc are the preferred activities by night.

Still, it worked like a dream and apparently has done all week.

BA trial starts mid-February BTW, LHR-JFK I believe.

Algy

[HugMonster]

BA trial starts mid-February BTW, LHR-JFK I believe.In-flight meals, drinks, shopping, cinema, phones, tv, sex, internet-surfing... and in-flight courts now?

What next? In-flight community service? Amusement parks complete with log flumes? ;)

[phnuff]

No, the modern generation of cellphones (GSM 2G), have no problem keeping track of which site a handset is operating. The handset actually monitors a number of sites simultaneously, not only for signal strength but also for available capacity on its site and the handset itself then makes the decision on which cell to hop to. The HLR of the operator (HLR=Home Resource Locator - basically a database which records where the phone is at any time) is updated every time a change is made and charges are made accordingly. If it roams, then the new host HLR is updated and charges go back to the home operator.

The reason they are banned is nothing to do with ability to charge. Think on it, if it can make/receive a call, then the cell operator knows where it is and who's network/account to post charges back to.

[Smoketoomuch]

A cell phone at altitude can be 'seen' by too many base stations and it starts to swamp the system. The base stations and channels allocated to them are v carefully thought out to provide the maximum spectrum use - topographics, buildings, output power, anticipated phone density and use are all considered. Stick a phone 5 miles up and all this network planning goes out the window, it'll block whatever channel its operating on on umpteen base stations, possibly hundreds in cities where a base station might be designed to cover just a section of a single street.

[phnuff]

Stick a phone 5 miles up and all this network planning goes out the window, it'll block whatever channel its operating on on umpteen base stations,

hang on, lets not forget, a mobile phone does not stick to one channel during operation, not even during a call. Going from cell A to cell B does not require the same channel to available on the new cell. It can and will hop channels, even within one cell. After all, going from one cell to another may take it into a different MSC. Add to this that putting a phone 5 miles in the air, inside an aluminium tube reduces the range of the transmissions from both handset & cell site.

What ever reason a mobile cannot be used in an aircraft does not lie with the mobile operators !

[Smoketoomuch]

Phnuff, I was just pointing out, perhaps badly, that whatever the airlines say about phones, the cell phone companies really don't want people using phones in aircraft either.
Yes phones 'hop' channels, and adjacent base stations never use the same channels [goes against the whole design philosophy of 'cell' phones], but the whole network is designed on the basis of phones being at or near ground level. The base stations often have surprisingly little spare capacity - they're typically designed for 1 - 10% phone usage, as people discover when they ring their friends at midnight on New Years eve :).
As for the attenuation caused by being in an aluminium tube, dunno what that is, but the phone tries its hardest to overcome it by cranking its power up. Hence a phone which should be 'visible' to no more than 4 or 5 base stations all using different channels, suddenly is seen by hundreds of base stations, many using the same channels which are all blocked by the call, and this does put a lot of extra strain on the system. If airlines allowed people to use phones on aircraft entire networks would have to be upgraded and we'd all pay even more for our calls.

[Captain Stable]

...not to mention the possible consequences of holding such a device to the side of your head when it's just cranked its power up... :eek: