New LST/LPC SPA forms

[BEagle]

I note from the 'General Guidance' for the new 'SPA, Skill Test and Proficiency Check Schedule - Examiner's Record' (Form SRG\1157), the following statement:

M Mandatory for the Test/Check. Any of the 'O' items may be tested at the examiner's discretion

How does one interpret that? For example, would one Examiner conducting a SEP revalidation proficiency check decide to use his/her 'discretion' in not testing any of the 'O' items whilst another would insist on testing all of them?

'O' items:

1.1 Pre-flight including Documentation, Mass and Balance, Weather Briefing.

1.6 Take-off procedures - Normal with Flight Manual flap setings.

1.8 ATC liaison - Compliance, R/T procedure

2.1 Straight and level flight at various airspeeds including flight at critically low airspeed with and without flaps.

2.5 (Same as 1.8 - word for word)

4.4 Crosswind landing (if suitable conditions)

4.5 Approach and landing with idle power up to 2000' above the runway. (I assume that translates as 'A glide approach'!)

4.8 See 2.5 and 1.8!!

5.4 Simulated emergencies:

(i) Fire or smoke in flight
(ii) Systems malfunctions as appropriate

5.6 See 4.8.....and 2.5.....and 1.8!!!

I also note that 'Rejected take-off (at a reasonable speed) is now a mandatory test item (5.1).

Now fair enough to produce the new form, but what is behind the idea of Examiners having 'discretion' over items to test? It doesn't really make for good standardisation, in my opinion.

[StrateandLevel]

Amazing how a form that could so easily have been one double sided piece of paper turns into 4 sides! They call it "House Style"

Do hope nobody fails, as there does not appear to be a new F252/SRG 1159 available to notify the failures on!

Makes sense putting these on the web so all and sundry can fill in there own! Won't need examiners much longer!

[CaptAirProx]

The Bastards!

Hey BEagle, how did you stumble over this new update? Off the Web? It kackes me off that we pay hefty re-issue fees for our FE rating and have to do all the work finding out if the CAA have updated our paper work and procedures.

When your not in the environment of the flying club everyday, it makes it very hard to keep in touch with their cras ideas.

I totally agree with you on this one.........pants, sheer pants

[BEagle]

I stumbled across these new forms only because they were mentioned at the recent AOPA FI refresher seminar......and I went looking for them. I too think that the very least the CAA could do would be to let their database of Flight Examiners know that the forms had changed. One changed on 24 Dec 02 - that's dedication to the cause from someone at the Belgrano!

Personally I don't find the CAA website very user friendly. There really ought to be a News Headlines top level page or something similar.

Incidentally, for those who've been trying to fax off their LASORS order form, the CAA fax machine seems to have been fixed at last!

[Stampe]

Totally agree with everything you say Beagle "Rome burns whilst the emporor fiddles".Well done for keeping those of us in the field informed methinks the CAA should have done this job.

[Another_CFI]

I agree with the comments about the content/format of the new LST/LPC form.

However unlike BEagle I did not have to go searching for the form or have any prior notice of its existence to become aware that it had been published. The CAA informed me automatically!

The CAA have introduced a new feature on their web site which enables users to receive automatic notification of all or selected publications. Simply go to the SRG web site, www.srg.caa.co.uk, click on Publications and then click on Subscriptions. Once you provide some simple data and select the desired categories of publications you will receive an e-mail every time that any new or amended publication, within your selected categories, is produced. Stops the need for searching the site, or relying on ‘inside’ information, in the hope of finding what you want.

I’ll complain when the CAA get it wrong, but on this occasion they deserve praise for providing a very worthwhile service.

[Stan Evil]

I don't know about you guys but my shiny new Examiners Handbook arrived today together with all the bumpf on the new form and a pad of 252s. I'd have said that's pretty good for a form that was only supposed to be used from this year.

[BEagle]

Yes- received my new FEH s well today. Teensy snagette - the pages weren't punched, so they won't fit the binder. But the nice chaps/chapesses at the Belgrano have promised to send me another which will be!

Didn't know about the 'subscription' option, thanks for the tip.

[Another_CFI]

BEagle, In case you have not yet started to use the automatic notification system they have produced another version of the LST/LPC form as of yesterday!

Not yet discovered what the differences are compared to last months edition.

I am puzzled by the mandatory/optional options. Engine starting (Item 1.3) is mandatory, fair enough; but Take-off (Item 1.6) is optional. Should any examiner decide to exclude that item it would make for a very short flight!

[StrateandLevel]

Where do examiners without computers get these forms from?

[BEagle]

It's not just the LPC/LST SPA which has been re-issued - so has the Examiner's Record SRG\1157!

This is getting ridiculous; surely there's someone competent to let us all know when this is going to happen and capable of producing a form without needing 4 attempts to get it right.

I've now got to undo much of the work I've just done in putting the forms onto our club Yahoo! newsgroup and on the secretary's computer. CAA - you need to do better than this!


Well - it's now an hour later and I've just finished downloading and printing the damn things - to find that the only differences are the CAA's page references at the foot of the pages. On the 1119, LST/LPC SPA has become LST/LPC SPA/MPA - and on the 1157 they've just corrected the page references from where they'd cocked it up before...........

Weren't logbook stamps so much easier!!

[walkingthewalk]

Chaps, that CAA address should be http://www.caa.co.uk/
the other one quoted is some recruitment firm
:rolleyes:

[Another_CFI]

Would you believe it -they've issued another version of the 1119 form! Not yet checked what has changed.

This is getting beyond a joke. Every new version means work unnecessary work for those of us working at RF/FTO. So far I have conducted one LPC using Rev 3, one using Rev 4. Do I expect to conduct one more test before the form is changed again.:(

30 minutes later. The only change I can find is in the Guidance notes under "Part 4 Examiner's Certificate". The last four words of line 1 have been changed from "Part 3 is the" to "Part 4 is the".

[Stampe]

Beagle did you ever get your pages with the holes punched??I emailed the Caa requesting punched pages and was told they are not available and I must punch my own !!not easy given the number of sheets and the the obscure 4 hole format they use.Thank god my employer manages to issue my work manual amendments pre-punched.sadly shows the level of customer service the Caa regard as acceptable.:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Yes - received my pages with holes punched in them as a special favour from Lesa. Interestingly, the CFE said that they'd been sent out without holes so that the FE could see what was being replaced..... Hmmmmm - I detect bovine doo-doo!

Suggest that you drop the CFE a line and ask that all future amendments should arrive properly punched - we're supposed to provide information to our colleagues because the CAA can't cope any more, so the least they can do is to give us the tools to do that with. That includes sending out the pages pre-punched!

Incidentally, I faxed the CAA LASORS order line ages ago now, but have heard nothing. Has anyone yet received LASORS 2003?

[Stampe]

Beagle thanks for that so you were fed the same story as me!!.As for LASORS living locally I, m dropping into the Belgrano weekly and as of a few days ago they were still awaiting delivery from Documedia as they have been for weeks.I,ll post as soon as it comes out.Strikes me the poor old Caa is staffed by such dreadfully nice chaps their suppliers and the bad guys run rings around them,whilst the poor old "customer" trying to conform and get the job done gets a very poor level of service and is made to feel guilty about any request.As you point out they are wanting us FE,s in the field to do their job effectively unrewarded and providing very little support.A very good example of the British QUANGO at its worst.Sadly in so many areas I,m beginning to agree with the multitude of people saying the poor old U.K. really has had its day.:confused:

[BEagle]

The stunning incompetence with these damn forms LST/LPC SPA/MPA is beyond belief. I am now writing to Ron Elder to ask him whether he would please sort out the bumble brains who are cocking everyone about with these daft forms!

[BEagle]

It seems that the 3 recent revisions to the forms were 'administrative' and the content is the same in all of them. Unfortunately, one only knows this by downloading and comparing the forms, so, adminisrative or not, these changes are still a nuisance!

It has been accepted that future amendments to the FE handbook [I]will[/ I] be sent out pre-punched....

[GoneWest]

BEagle, "A Voice for the People"

Well done, Captain. Keep up the crusade!!

[BEagle]

I've just heard that SRG\1119 issue6 is now on its way..... But it won't have any huge changes.

[Stampe]

Was at the Belgrano today on business and managed to pick up my copy of 2003 LASORS though they only have an initial batch of 50 and all are having to be checked as some have come with pages missing thanks to good old Documedia.So guess some of you who have postal ordered may have to wait a little longer.Looks a major improvement on what was already a useful handbook!!.Re the FE handbook amendment it came unpunched because the Belgrano hole punching machine was U/s I think they,ve got the message and it won,t be happening again.:)

[juggernaut]

I spent last night (Saturday!) punching my own holes in the examiners handbook and reading it all the way through, the new item on filling in the skill test forms is particularly useful. I find it strange however that there is no reference to the national PPL in there and I am still no clearer on how to fill in the paperwork when I do a NPPL skill test, bearing in mind the different diversion format on the NFT and the necessary omission of radio fix and 180 degree turn during test - how do you differentiate between PPL and NPPL? any info anyone?

[BEagle]

Please refer to www.nppl.uk.com for all NPPL licensing matters. But if in doubt, contact either NPLG or BMAA and speak to one of my very helpful chums who will be pleased to assist.

Re. the LPC/LST SPA/MPA, I understand that certain folk within the CAA are a bit miffed as well!

The Authority are actually pretty helpful these days. Honest!!