Learning to fly at 50+

[bobdee]

I would appreciate some general comment from all you highly experienced folk out there. I have about 30 hours now, have not yet soloed, but getting pretty close (I think). Cant help wondering and admiring all those guys who have achieved this first hurdle in ten hours or less. It seems to me that the age of the trainee has to be taken as a major factor in the equation. Could it be that when you are young, you are much easier to train because ones youth generally means that lack of experience in life allows immediate acceptance of new instructions without balancing that new instruction against past experince and the inbuilt desire for self preservation? There must be a lot of guys out there who finally get a chance to learn to fly when the family have grown up and more funds become available. Assuming you can pass the medical every year it would seem that there is no upper age limit, but I havnt heard of too many people claiming to solo in a few hours once the grey bits start to appear!

[Whirlybird]

From what I'm seen, you're correct on the whole. Older people seem to take longer to learn, whether it's flying or anything else, though as with all generalisations there are plenty of exceptions to that rule, in both directions.

I do find myself wondering if the expectations and attitude of the instructor don't have a certain amount to do with this. A friend of mine went for her first lesson at 70+, and seemed to be treated as though she was going for a little jaunt, not starting a PPL. I suggested she sit down with her instructor and explain things, but owing to unforeseen circumstances she only managed a couple more lessons, so I don't know if it would have helped.

Anyway, hours to solo doesn't seem to have a lot to do with how well you fly in the long run, and learning about patience never did anyone any harm, especially a pilot. Good luck, and I look forward to reading an account of your first solo soon!

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Bobdee,

Well done for taking the plunge.

As Whirly has stated eye hand coordination (and that is a lot of what flying is all about) is easiest learned early on in life.

There has been quite a bit of research into this and for instance people that start playing pianos etc find this easier when young.

There are plenty of people about that prove that even at a high age (and quite a bit over fifty for that) have learned to fly and get a ppl.

When I was a lot younger and less experienced in life I was of the opinion that everyone could learn to fly.

However a bit more seasoned and experienced now I have to admit that there are some people for whom the ability to learn to fly to a safe solostandard is not achievable.

This is not solely the case with people over fifty though it happens (may be a bit less often) with younger peeps as well.

Good luck

FD

[Safe]

Hi Bobdee
Do'nt get discouraged because of your age. I had a trial lesson for a 50th. birthday present. I finally saved enough to do some serious flying by the time my 60th. came along. 15 hours later I was ready to solo but failed the medical. Loads of dispondancy. Along came the NPPL. I was able to get my doctor to sign my medical declaration so started again. 14 hours later I finally acheived my first solo First solo after 11 years. Hang in there friend you'll get there in the end
Best Wishes.

[28thJuly2001]

That's all we need, another wrinklie bumbling around the skies clogging up the radio with tales of how it was not like this when they were a lad, :D
Just joking.... good luck with the training and let us know about the first solo when it happens.
Make sure you wrap up warm and cover your legs with the check blanket.

28th,

[foxmoth]

Shortly after I gained my instructors ticket I took over a student who was "older than most", he had flown with most of the school instructors and ALL had recommended to him that he gave up, I did the same but was told by him it did not really matter as he enjoyed it anyway, we continued but rather than flog the circuit as he had done the last 20+ hrs we went off and had fun, finishing each session with a few circuits. If my memory serves me right he FINALLY went solo at about 50hrs and went on to get his licence a couple of months later.
If you are getting a bit fed up of the circuit I suggest you have a word with your instructor and try the same as my student above for a couple of sessions as you can get bogged down in the circuit if you just stay doing that.

[essouira]

As an over-50 instructor I must say that things do take a bit longer to learn now than when I was a teenager. I do notice that many of my older students often need a couple more attempts before things are exactly right - but on the other hand, most of them have pretty high standards so may push themselves that little bit extra. I have had a couple of very young students lately who have indeed breezed through their ppls much more quickly than the average but they are used to an intensive learning environment so I guess their brains are in gear for it. However - some of my most proficient students in the past have been "older" ones - one who started when over sixty and another in her late fifties. The main factor seems to be whether you are prepared to give the time and energy to complete your studies. You sound like you're going to do it so choose your school/instructor carefully and have a fab time ! I look forward to sharing the airspace with you when you're done.

[Loony_Pilot]

Hi,

Age does have an effect but I would say that there are many factors which determine the number of hours a student passes the skill test in. Motivation, determination and and persistance play a strong part, as does the more reading/study you do in the bacckground The oldest student at the club where I instruct is a sprightly 78, he has been solo a few times so that alone shows age is certainly not a barrier to success.

Hours to Solo is in my opinion, somewhat irrelevant as there are far too many factors (eg weather, regularity of flying and so on) to make it a reliable judge of ability and performance, in fact 2 students that I taught more or less full time during the summer and who both passed in close to minimum hours both took around 15-20 hours to go solo.
Its much better to wait until you have better developed handling skills and can deal with any issues more easily before going solo, it also makes the rest of the course less taxing as you use less effort in simply flying the aircraft.

So stick with it, I'm sure you'll get there in the end and good luck

[griffinblack]

Lets face it, you can learn to fly at any age but the sad truth is that you pick things up a lot faster when you are young.

appart from the obvious physiological differences I would be interested to see how a prospective fast jet trainee who is 55 years old would go. not to well i would imagine.

The other isssue is that I believe that captaincy, SA and airmanship are all more easlily developed when you are 18. yes, there is the old 'but they are not as mature line'. it didn't seem to stop 18 year old spitfire pilots!

Anyway. There is no reason that a reasonable progression can be achieved at a more mature age.

[PPPPP]

Yes age is no bar, it's motivation and effort that's important.
I too am a"wrinkly" but I've always wanted to learn to fly, the fact that I now have the time and money means that it's that much more important to me to make the most of my remaining flying years:)
Hang in there, we need more of our age group in the air!

Edited to replace "lean" by "learn", Freudian slip perhaps?

[Trinity 09L]

Bobdee,
Stick at it and enjoy. I started late 49er, solo in 17hrs, but it took another long time with lots of hours to pass GFT, then 50. Weather, time and more practice always needed, but I enjoyed it as a challenge, all paid by the generous endowment policy, which would be less now!
Good luck, and enjoy:cool:

[eveepee]

Bobdee - As another 50++ student I say "stick in there". I have recently "gone solo" after 29 hours and, at times never thought I'd make it. I would agree with most of the above comments...at our age new concepts and skills seem to take that bit longer to learn ; however I believe our determination and motivation more than make up for it. :)

[bobdee]

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for the positive words of encouragement. I will certainly be cracking on with the course. Getting a PPL at any age is quite a thing and for those of later years it gives one's offsping something to talk about. Theres a lot of truth in the "Spending the Kids inheritance" line but on the plus side keepng the old man's brain ticking over has to mean something. Its quite hard accepting critiscm and coming to realise that you are a real junior when you take up flying later in life. How ever the lesson turns out, some are better than others, its still 100% enjoyable, and I have at least progressed beyond the sweaty palms and total tenseness that characterised the early hours. Anyway 2 more lessons booked next week (weather permitting)and hopefully I will be making some better landings now that the 25 knot head winds have subsided.
Thanks again Guys

Bob D

[Bubbette]

I don't think you should be worried about spending your kids' inheritance--you earned it, you should enjoy it!

[kabz]

Don't worry about the solo stuff. Took me ages, but I just passed my FAA IR at 150 hours, so I can't be too bad.

Don't worry about all the people that do it quicker. It's a tiny part of the overall picture. Once you attain basic competence in flying, there's decision making, planning, weather, communications, procedures, systems, loads of stuff to worry about.

It's a lot of fun. More to it that soloing in < 10 hours !!!

[gaffney3]

Keep at it.
I gave in to the craving in my mid forties and kept at until I passed.
As far as I know It is reflexes and mussels that slow down first: and if you are relying on either for safe flying then you are in the wrong business, If you have average strength and reactions you should have no trouble.
I had a big problem with tuition. When I finally qualified I had 13 instructors in my logbook. I'm not saying any were bad teachers but all had their different ways and that can cause problems. The one who was unavailable because he was arrested for attempted murder was unusual, but you get my drift.
I will bet that you are like most of us trying to get your licence "part time " and coping with the British weather. If you could dedicate 4weeks to intensive training then I think you would have no problems.
There are people how will never have the basic co-ordination to be able to fly safely but I think these are few and far between. As long as you are sure that you do not fall into this category then keep going.
Let us know when you go solo.

[chipjockey]

Age has got nothing to do with it except that when you are over 50 you get a letter from Saga and are going downhill towards senility and worm food. Should the CAA issue licences to people who are goiung downhill?. I think not. The bloody roads are bad enough with the elderly holding upo the traffic and causing accidents all over the place. Just think what the skies are going to be like if we just allow anyone to have a go as they start to lose theor faculties.

If you altready have a licence then they should restrict use and have retests every year but there is no point in allowing over 50s to train whenre there are plenty of people under 50 who would benegfit more. This works fine in the health service why shouldn't it also aply to aviation?

[alphaalpha]

I don't see age as a problem, at least before senility/medical problems set in.

My wife and I both started PPL training at 50, went on to other ratings and flying is our main hobby now, and is great fun allowing us to travel without the family issues which younger people may have.

Older people may well take longer to master the mechanics of accurate flying and struggle more with the exam studying. However, there is much more to safe flying than this. Factors like: judgement, (weather decisions, diversions, acceptance of situations with one or more bad factors present); prioritising workload (keeping ahead of the aircraft etc) and prudence are not the exclusive province of younger pilots and are more important pilot skills once you have mastered the basics.

So, go on and get your licence. I hope you have as many great airbourne hours as we have had.

[nonradio]

So, 50 is old then? get a life

[PPPPP]

Nice try, chipjockey:)

There's a rickety rackety bridge here somewhere.....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hey Chipjockey:

Age in and of its self is no barrier, Bob Hoover is over eighty and he sure as hell knows what he is doing.

There is a danger allowing idiots to fly though Chipjockey, so for the sake of safety I hope you are not a pilot.

Cat Driver:

[28thJuly2001]

Well Chipjockey you caught 2 on your line...reel 'em in.

28th,,

[Whirlybird]

Chipjockey, are you for real or a wind-up merchant? Either way, let's not let you sabotage what is turning out to be an interesting thread.

I was in my late 40s when I started flying (OK, I finally admitted it; Whirly is not the sweet young thing she pretends to be. For the record, I'm not tall and blonde as a lot of people seem to think either, but that's irrelevant here. :D ) It never occurred to me at first that my age was supposed to make a difference. Having not had kids, I guess I missed the whole generation pigeon-holing thing that many people seem to pick up naturally. Anyway, when I started to struggle, everyone else came out with comments like: "Well, you're no spring chicken are you?" "You're not used to learning at your age" etc. Never mind that (a) I'd struggled with anything involved distance/depth perception or co-ordiantion since I was a kid, and (b) learning wasn't new for me; I'd got A level Welsh a couple of years earlier, and then improved enough to be mistaken for a native speaker. No, I had just reached that point where it HAD to be my age. So much so that I almost started to believe it myself. But not enough to stop me deciding to learn to fly helicopters, getting a CPL(H), flying in the US and Russia, etc etc etc. And you know what? If I ignore the fact that getting older is supposed to make things difficult, then it doesn't. And then everyone else starts ignoring it too. No-one's mentioned it to me now for ages. If I start to say that I'm unlikely to live long enough to earn enough through flying to ever recoup what I've paid out, they look at me in amazement. So either flying makes you look younger, or...

Come on people, what is all this age cr@p anyhow? Polly Vacher is about to start a second flight solo around the world, and she's at least in her 50s. Jennifer Murray became the first woman to fly a piston engined helicopter around the world at the age of 60, having learned to fly helos at the age of 54. I know of several people doing CPLs in their late 40s and 50s. At the microlight club where I battled with a flexwing, loads of people seem to be, and have learned, in their 50s and older, and no-one there seems to even notice. As I said earlier, on average it might, just might, take a few hours longer in the early stages. Dunno why, but it seems to. But that's about all.

The rest, kids, is just so much hot air and prejudice!

[alphaalpha]

Well said, Whirly.
AA.

[neils]

Taught a guy in his 70`s he was an excellent student,I enjoyed flying with him very much.Took just two months to complete,a very nice pair of hands.

[essouira]

I always knew Whirlybird could be relied on to talk sense.

[MLS-12D]

bobdee,

You should seek out and read David Garnett's book "A Rabbit in the Air", which is about learning to fly in middle age. I think that you will enjoy it.

MLS-12D :)

[t'aint natural]

Re old dog/new trick interface malfunction:
I know exactly what you mean. I did my instructor rating when I was 49 and always felt I was about 25 years too late. But if you persevere you'll crack it, and I'm convinced that life experience makes you a more circumspect and thoughtful pilot. Go for it.

[Whirlybird]

t'aint,

I'm about to do a helicopter instructors course in a month or two at a similar age, so I'll let you know if I agree. However, a couple of weeks ago I was discussing the course with three YOUNG instructors, who were all saying it was the hardest thing they'd ever done. But, you see, they didn't blame that on their age.

This whole issue reminds me of something I once read with respect to memory and age. The writer said that older people blame forgetting things on getting older. Yet six year olds come home from school, and say: "Sorry, I forgot to give my note to the teacher, I left my homework at school, and I can't remember where I left my gym bag". But they don't say they have a bad memory because of AGE - they save that for 40 years later!

[pulse1]

I originally qualified as a PPL in a DH82 at 28, after about 20 hours flying (experienced glider pilot). I learned non radio, and the sylabus was a lot simpler then.

After a break of 23 years with no flying, I re-qualified in my late 50's and am not aware that age had any impact on the learning process. I certainly sailed through the far more extensive exams and the only learning problems I had were that both my instructor and I assumed too much that I could already do most things and, as long as I did them, this assumption prevailed. It was only after qualifying that I really discovered that I had not really re-learned how to land properly, when I tried to check out on a different aeroplane.

Certainly, as I have got older, I seem to more frequently forget names of people and places but, so far, I seem to remember all essential information for flying. As one of my school teachers used to say, "You remember those things that you want to".

[formationfoto]

Have to admit at forty three to forgetting things and names and sometimes being a little slow but mostly seem to achieve safe aviation activity and learn new aviation tricks - now set me something to learn I am not particularly interested in and I am all for using ags as an excuse.

I still have a lot to learn so I hope I am still capable of it otherwise I might as well give up now.

[MLS-12D]

Another good book about learning to fly at middle age: Diane Ackerman, "On Extended Wings".