Manchester from the south

[DocLeaf]

Any advice would be welcome on flying in to Manchester or Barton from the South; is Manchester very expensive (any way of avoiding handling via the club - like Cardiff??) - and is Barton as bumpy as rumoured?

[Beethoven]

Manchester is pretty much out for small aircraft and so Barton is the obvious alternative...and it is as bumpy as you imagine it is,but it really is no problem...just make sure that we ain't sinking with the rain when u want to come but otherwise it's a great place to visit.Not much alternative to using the low level corridor other than a transit of the MAN airspace which is all honesty is unlikely (though IMHO the controllers at MAN are always friendly and ready to help,but I would personally not call them in the LLR).Check out your map,come up through the LLR and hang a right(ish) at warrington.Landings are cheap... coffee is crap (go for the hot chocolate instead)...welcome is very warm...and it is much much closer to Manchester than MAN is.
Best Wishes,
Beethoven

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I would endorse what Beethoven has posted. And please don't be afraid of the Manchester Low Level Route. It's a non-event - and you don't even need a radio since there's no requirement to call anyone.

I listen out on 119.4 and squawk. If it's not busy, I might give them a call since they sometimes allow you to cut the corner direct to Barton once north of the Manchester 24 extended centreline - but not if it's busy. If it's busy, don't call them.

It doesn't seem that long ago that SVFR transits directly across the zone were freely given - but those days are now gone unless it's very quiet and a particularly helpful controller is on duty.

SSD

[Davidt]

I concur with the other two posts, a tip for finding Barton which isnt easy to spot if you dont know it is to look for Barton Bridge (a bloody big motorway viaduct) and the twin green domes of Trafford Centre the field is at the Nothern end of the bridge. Dont confuse Thelwall viaduct you'll be in the Man zone if you do!
This time of year essential you get update on how wet field is gets v soggy some times.
Have fun:)

[Mariner9]

I've used the Low Level Route on both occasions I've been to Barton, and been in contact with Manc Appr the 1st time only.

It was so busy it took me ages to get a call in to request freq change to Barton, & I ended up orbiting very close to Barton's ATZ & Manc CTR, not very enjoyable, in fact thinking back it was probably my most unpleasant moment in aviation.

Even if you get a hand off as you exit the LLR, it's only a 5 min flight to Barton, not much time to get your call in & get orientated before the overhead.

The 2nd time I didn't speak to Manc (although I listened out on freq), and called up Barton when half way up the LLR. Plenty of time to get organised for the overhead join - much easier IMHO

[poetpilot]

DocLeaf, not much to add to the good advice already given

- but check out Barton's website at www.lancsaeroclub.co.uk for some pretty comprehensive information.

A quick question back to you....

... Where are you flying from? Are you used to grass airfields with relatively short runways?

I ask, not to put you off in any way, 'cos IMHO Barton's a great place to visit.

But just to make sure you are happy with landing on a grass field with A/G radio only. Yes, I know everyone should be capable of it, but some ppruners have indicated that they've never landed at these places on their training courses.

...evidence (though bad weather had a lot to do with it) the Grumman that overran into the hedge back in September.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Mariner9 - I've never had a problem in over 20 years in QSY-ing to Barton from Manch. I call at Thelwall (Warrington) just before making the right turn to Barton. The call need only be "AB QSY Barton 122.7" - and the "122.7" is optional.

Manch has brief bursts of intense radio traffic at times, but there's usually a gap after a couple of minutes at worst. But as I said in an earlier post, if the guy is very busy, it's best not to call him in the first place.

SSD

[poetpilot]

Good old Shaggy - 20 years of QSY-ing and still no-one will talk to him - try staying on frequency for more than a minute mate ;)

Seriously, I've never had trouble with Manch & endorse Shaggy's view.

I usually do talk to them, but first I listen (so I QSY early as poss to 119.4, well before reporting point) to determine how bizzy they are. I then do a pretty concise report rather than a life story.

e.g "G-xxxx Pa28 from Sleap to Barton, at Crewe at 2000 on nnnn (get the QNH from Manch's ATIS beforehand), descending to 1250 feet for the Low Level Route, request FIS"

You'll usually get "FIS you have, Report at Winsford, entering the LLR not above 1250 feet". When you report at Winsford, they'll usually tell you to report turning at Warrington.

I like them to know I'm there in case anyone else is bimbling down the LLR keeping a listening watch on. If he/she isnt bizzy, they'll pass unidentified traffic as well as Identified traffic to you. They wont usually ask you to squawk a unique ID.

PS I also switch my landing light on down the LLR for visual conspicuity.

[Fred]

A couple of small points (but important if you're going): Barton is AFIS, not A/G (except lunchtimes!) and you must PPR.

[Squadgy]

Air Ground at Lunch ?? Not anymore I've just being doing FIS 1200-1300 !!:D

[Spiney Norman]

Hi Guys.
Although this won't be 'on site' for a little while yet. The On Track project will have a route briefing for the Low level route. You'll be able to download it from the ais.org site and have a read through or print it off and take it with you.There'll also be one on the Inbound & Outbound routes for Manchester Intl. The route briefings will contain photo's of waypoints as well as VRP's. Not that you Barton based chaps will need them.
Considering how often people seem to post with worries about flying the LLR it is very very rare to see anyone stray out of it.

Spiney

[DocLeaf]

Thanks to everyone for the help - done some short grass stuff but more used to Class D motorways.

Have to wait for the weather for a while I think - how's the runway water content at present??

[Beethoven]

Probably best to ask whether the water contains a runway!!!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I flew (briefly) on Saturday. Runway was fine - not boggy anywhere on 27N, at least.

But unfortunatly there were a large numbers of gulls on the airfield - one of which went through the Chippy's prop on take off. No damage at all, luckily (except to the bird - a juvenile black-headed gull, I'm told).

SSD