Flying Different Types: Confusing or Complementary?

[Whirlybird]

I'm thinking about very different types such as fixed wing and rotary, or fixed wing and flexwing, or such things as airships if anyone here flies them; not flying a PA38 and a PA28. But I tried explaining that in the thread title and it got ridiculously long!

Anyway, when I first started learning to fly helicopters, I got a bit confused. I remember being halfway down the runway in a C152, and thinking: "Oops, this isn't a helicopter; I'd better go around". :eek: Some people told me that flying both wasn't safe, and for a while I didn't fly f/w alone. But after a bit, things seemed to sort themselves out, and I didn't get confused any more. In fact the two appeared to complement each other.

Recently, when I started learning to fly a flexwing microlight, people prophecied similarly - how would I ever remember which type of control system it was and so on. Well, it was hell learning to fly flexwings initially, but now I've got it sorted, it's fine (the control system anyway; landing the damn thing is still... well, that's another story). And how can I possibly mix up a bar and a control column? And a helicopter is so so so different from everything. And I do get the feeling that they all complement each other; eg I'm more aware of weather and thermals and possible forced landings since I've been flying flexwings; better at doing loads of things at once since flying helos, etc.

So, especially (but not exclusively) all you readers of these forums with many many more hours than me on many more different types of aircraft - what have you found? And is there a limit - at which point it does become unsafe?

I'm only asking out of interest - I have no intention of learning to fly something else new at the moment!!!!!!!

[Genghis the Engineer]

People who tend to jump between types a lot, of which I have the "pleasure" to be one, tend to rely upon the kneeboard a lot.

It's amazing how much information you can get onto a single A5 side of kneeboard. The art, if you're switching between types a lot is to keep a store of kneeboard cards that contain the salient points relevant to whatever it is you're flying.

The format is a personal thing, but the best example I know of such things available commercially is the old "ATA blue book" used by those magnificent ladies of WW2 who used to deliver a Spitfire before lunch, a Wellington after lunch, then go out to a hunt ball in the evening. You can get a replica set from the Yorkshire air museum at Elvington.

The ones I produce for myself tend to be two sides of A5. The front (what I can see in flight) contains limiting speeds, take-off and approach flap settings, glide ratio, climb and field performance, and any particular notes that I might need in a hurry. The other side is the useful but non-urgent self-brief stuff like fuel capacity, where the switches are, weight, span, etc.

I find it's important to use the same format for all of my cards, and my checks tend to include reference to the cards (pre take-off I'll check flap setting, rotate speed, initial climb speed, etc. Downwind I'll check approach speed and flap setting). Possibly in your case, subtly different formats for flexwing, fixed and rotary might be a good idea - or just stick a picture in the corner !


Switching control systems is of-course a slightly different kettle of fish. I jump between fixed wing and flexwing fairly regularly without difficulty, but only by staying very current on both. I'm sure the same is true adding in rotary (or even airships, which I suspect strongly is the only thing you've not flown yet, although you probably have more time to think in one of those). I actually find the biggest difficulty is jumping between my PA28 share and a 3-axis microlight, because they control the same, but need quite different handling, landing techniques, etc.

G

[formationfoto]

I'm sure many will suggest that multiple types is unsafe but I have not found it either difficult or life threatening to move regularly between the likes of a Tiger Moth and a Cessna 310 and an R22. Tailwheel to nosewheel, stick to yoke does not seem to cause a problem. I guess the issue here is whether you are current and experienced on type and the extent and speed to which you adapt to changing circumstances.

Genghis seems to have the right solution - some form of aid to remembering the key speeds, peculiarities of handling, and emergency procedures. Bit of a pig being cuaght in an aircraft where say the wheels wont come down, you haven't considered the emergency extension procedures, and the POH is nowehere to be found. To be fair thought this isn't just an issue for the type hopper. I was an an airfield once when a group member couldn't get three greens and didn't know the emergency procedure (having not practiced it). He made the sensible decision and chose the embrassment of getting on the radio to ask if anyone could assist rather than waiting for the greater embarassment of a wheels up arrival.

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Complementary, in my limited experience.

I've only flown gliders, motorgliders and variety of single engine types, but I'm sure the variety is beneficial. Earlier this afternoon I was flying a Jodel Mousquetaire, which was "slope soaring" quite nicely in the winds we had here. It seems natural after doing it in gliders.

The more types I fly, the easier it is to convert. You need to understand your checks, rather than just doing them routinely from habit. You also sometimes fly a type that clearly displays a trait that is barely visible in others. In a Zlin that I flew, for example, the gyroscopic effect of the propeller caused a clear pitching effect. In a medium turn to the right, a touch of forward stick was needed to maintain level flight. The same is true in any other type (although the Zlin's engine turned the "wrong" way), but I'd never noticed it before.

If I flew helicopters, I'd probably understand why they always seem to come and land next to me if I'm in something small and light!;)

[FlyingForFun]

As a child, when I started learning to play woodwind instruments, I was told that if you learn two different woodwind instruments you'll get the fingerings mixed up.

Now I'm older and wiser, I know many people who play a wide range of woodwind instruments, and none of them has any problems. I play the flute, the piccolo and the fife. The flut and piccolo have the same fingerings, so no problem. The fife is very similar, but some notes are fingered differently. When I first started playing the fife, I would always use flute fingerings. After a while, I learnt the fife fingerings, but then started using them on the flute. Now, having been playing the fife for around 5 years (and the flute for much longer), I can switch between the two without any problems. And that's despite the fact that I don't get to play either of them very often, and I don't consider myself to be particularly good.

Although I've never flown anything other than fixed wing, I'd expect the same would apply. When you first start learning something different, it would be easy to confuse the two. But after a while you learn to separate them completely. After all, how many of use tried to turn the yoke to get the 'plane to turn when taxying during our first few lessons? But very few of us still do that after the first 5 or 10 hours, or try to steer the car using our feet - despite the fact that we don't fly as often as we'd like to.

FFF
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[RotorHorn]

FFF- I'm a brass man me'self (its the cold weather - ho ho).

I used to play lead trombone in a dance band (think of Glen Miller) with music written in bass clef notation, but also played lead trombone in a brass band whose music was in treble clef notation.

After a while found I had a mental 'switch' in my head that once I'd made the decision which one I had to use for the evening, I didn't need to worry about it from then on...

..until someone gave me tenor clef to read (which trombone players play like treble clef, but with two flats knocked off...).. my brain started to hurt a lot after that..

Your brains does learn though. (Obvious that that sounds).

I used to get rudder pedals (torque pedals for us) mixed up because they work the opposite way to motorbike handle bars.

Left on an aircraft means pushing your left foot forward - left on a bike means pushing your right hand forward (actually you push the left hand forward, but I don't want to confuse the issue with counter-steering techniques!). Bottom line is, you get your brain trained after a while and don't have to worry about it.

I like Genghis' idea of the idiot sheets. I have a doc on my laptop that has the various limits for R22's and R44's in and I usually just print off the correct ones before I get in the aircraft. Although the R22 and R44 are sufficiently similar that there's really only the operating limits, weights, speeds, etc. to remember anyway.

No doubt this'll all change when I do me jetranger rating...

("Hot start? Are you mad? Its bloody freezing in this cockpit.... ")

[Spacer]

A while ago I was current on three seperate types of fixed wing a/c. I found it quite confusing, and I have let two of the three currencies slip to help me fly the first better. I found that it was all to easy to mix up speeds, checks, etc. in high work-load situations, so I decided to concentrate on just one.

[Lowtimer]

I've never flown a weightshift or anything rotary wing, but plenty of gliders, and am reasonably current on some low energy vintage-style aeroplanes (90hp Cub, Tiger Moth) as well as the Yak and various PA-28 sub-types. Also technically checked out, though not particulalarly current, on the C152, Robin HR200 and part way through a Pitts conversion. Speaking personally, I find that everything you learn to fly makes it easier to adapt to the next type, and also helps my flying of the earlier-experienced types. Of course, that's partly because all experience is good experience. Before flying any type I review the critical speeds and emergency procedures, and make full use of the POH & checklist to get my mind back into each type before I jump in. So far the one time I've found a differences between types confusing is when I'm dealing with the very similar types, the different members of the PA-28 family. E.g. going from an Archer II to a keyless Archer III, I find it hard to remember to switch on the ignition before hitting the starter. And moving from a Warrior to a plank-wing 180, the different trim change with flap application once took me by surprise. The more different the types the easier I find it - when sitting in a Moth, I never expect it to do Yak-like things, and vice versa.