Flying in CA, AZ

[T/O]

Hello together,

I'm planning to spend some weeks in Southern California from November to Dezember. I want to fly there about 50 hours through CA and AZ, VFR.

Can someone tell me how the weather will be at that time?
What are the temperatures day and night?

Which flight school for aircraft rental would you take?

Can you also suggest some specific destinations/trips which are a must?

Thank you in advance :) !
T/O

[West Coast]

The wx will be nice, especially in AZ. highs in the 60's to low 70's in the day, in the 30-40 range at night. High on my list of places to go are Sedona, Vegas and Havasu. California wx may not be quite as nice. More prone to storms, but generally still good. Lots of neat places to go. Be sure to make it down to my home town, San Diego, alot to see and do here. Catalina island is pretty neat, as is Big Bear airport in the mountains east of LA. Both airports usually require special checkouts, so it can be expensive. Chino airport, east of LA is a haven for warbirds in various states of repair, good museum also. Up North is Santa Barbara, a nice sea side tourist community. If you venture farther north, visit Pismo Beach. The name escapes me now, but there is a nice(and short) airport almost on the beach next to it. Monterey a bit further up the coast is nice also. Pebble beach is there if you like to chase the little white ball around. The aquarium is a must see. San Fran is great. Dont know much about GA ops up there . Across from SFO at the base od the Sierras is a neat little airport named pine mountain lake, its been a few years, so I may not be exact on the name. If you are daring, hop the Sierras and go to Mammoth airport. The natural hot springs are really nice as is the town.

You should have a great time, only wish I had the time to do it also

[essouira]

there was a thread called flying holidays recently that had loads of replies on this - you should be able to find it if you do a search on california

[FlyingForFun]

Hi,

I spend all of last December/January flying around that area.

The weather will be good, if not perfect. In two months, I had to cancel three times. Once because I'd planned a mountain flight and the clouds covered the mountain tops, although the weather was good enough to fly locally. Once because the crosswinds at my destination were above the aircraft's limits, although again I could have flown locally. And once because I'd planned an aerobatic flight, but the cloud base was too low to aerobat comfortably, although I could have flown without aerobating. The only possible problem will be the California fog, which can cause problems near the coast in the mornings. I didn't fly out to the coast, so I don't have much personal experience of that.

As for schools, it sounds like you want to base yourself in California, in which case I can't help. I can recommend a superb school in Phoenix, AZ, though - let me know if that's any use.

Destinations, hmm, ok.

Las Vegas, definitely. Fly to Las Vegas North airport - very cheap parking, close to the city centre, and they'll provide transport to/from your hotel. (You must get a hotel - no point going and not staying overnight!.)

Grand Canyon. As long as your budget will cover it, fly to Grand Canyon airport, then walk to the other side of the airport for a helicoptor tour over the canyon (book the tour in advance). If your budget won't stretch that far, a fixed-wing tour will cost about half the price of the helicoptor. If you want to fly over it yourself, you'll be restricted to a couple of high-altitude corridors - you need a special tour-operators permit to fly over the canyon except in these corridors. I didn't fly over the canyon myself, but I gather the views are good - although the corridors are up around 12,000', ground level is about 8000' so you can still see well enough.

Tucson - an absolute must if you want to be get the chance to share the runway with F16s! Once you're there, get a cab to the Pima Air and Space Museum. And make sure you do the tour of the aircraft graveyard, sorry, storage facility - the bus starts at the museum, and returns you to the museum after the tour.

Sedona is an absolutely beautiful place. Pink Jeep Tours will take you in a tour (in a pink jeep!) - and if you pick the right tour, you'll get to experience some genuine off-road driving with a professional driver at the wheel. The tour company will pick you up from the airport if you ask them.

Feel free to contact me if I can help any more. And I'm sure you'll have a great time there! :)

FFF
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[positionand hold]

T/O

I am based in UK, but fly in AZ and CA as often as I can - but no short-term plans for another visit, so I am very envious!

Whenever I have been there at this time of the year, the weather has been great - no major storms and no hot bumpy flying in the desert.

If you want some really peaceful flying, try Fresno - full ATC, but no traffic and handy for some mountain flying to the east. Also within distance of San Francisco.

In Los Angeles, I use Van Nuys Flight Center at Van Nuys. It claims to be the busiest GA airport almost anywhere, but I have seen Elstree with longer lines at the holding point! They rent dry and you refuel upon return. The overall cost works out about the same, at just under 100 Dollars per hour. Mind you, this is for a new Cessna 172 R or S! I have flown an SP here which had a total of FIVE hours on the Hobbs - very nice and at the same price!

You will obvioulsy have to do a check-ride, so ask them to show you the LAX Special Flight Rules corridor (I believe it has re-opened). Nice way to fly right over the top of LAX legally!

In Phoenix, I use Westwind, based at Deer Valley 10 miles north. An even larger rental fleet of R and S models. They are big on training, so you need to book weekday slots a little more in advance.

PHX also has a VFR transition route right over the airport, though here you are under full Radar control, so a good exercise for the VFR pilot in maintaining cleared heights and headings (and some more good views).

Not sure if you are already familiar with flying in the US, but I now carry my own Renters Insurance (through Avemco). Yes, most schools have cover, but there is this wonderful insurance concept in the US called subrogation. Under this, the insurance company usually pays out, but then scouts around for somebody else to claw the money back from - usually the pilot..........Curiously, I have never seen this mentioned in any UK magazine articles about US flying, but I reckon it could really ruin your day.

If you have flown in the US before, you will know all the differences from the UK, if not post another reply and I will be happy to contact you direct.

[NotAnotherUsername]

Have to disagree with the recommendation to go to Las Vegas North. I flew into McCarran and used Executive Air (or someting like that!) - brilliant!

Fuels a bit more expensive but they didn't charge me for parking and provided free courtesy buses to the hotels - and (wait for it!) you get proper 'follow-me's and everthing. Felt like I was driving a 747 (with three engines out!). And its maybe 3 minutes to the big hotels.

Best bit was taking off down the strip with all the hotels on your right - wife got some great photos!

Oh, and make sure you night stop somewhere in the middle of nowhere (CA or AZ). Friendliest folks in the world, I spent a night in Firebaugh, CA which is a one-horse agricultural town - great little bar behind the diner (top totty too, surprisingly!). Motel was a different story, but hey, thats the experience!

[dublinpilot]

I recently flew out of Las Vegas North, and also flew over the strip hotels, while cordornating with McCarren.

I understand that there are no landing fees at LV North, but McCarren has recently started to charge. I don't know how much.

[T/O]

Thanks to all of you!

Of course I know, the visibility will be very fine in AZ, but if I have you unterstood right, flight conditions in CA will be good enough?


@positionand hold
Can you give me a web adress of Van Nuys Flight Center and Fresno (respective where to rent the aircrafts there, I think this are the airports?)?

Tell me more about the "subrogation" concept, please.
If I understood correct, the insurance companies try to claw the money back from the pilot in the case of an accident/damage, but how this can be justified?
What causes this problem, and what's the difference to your own Renters Insurance, which seems to solve this problem?


@FlyingForFun
Correct, I've supposed CA would be more attractive and so it would be better to base there and then flying to AZ.
But I have been neither in CA nor in AZ so just convince me of the opposite, if you think this is the case.
Anyway, what school could you recommend?


Does anyone know something about Universal Air Academy (http://www.universalairacademy.com/), El Monte?
Seems to be a bit cheaper than others, but is it a fair offer and is it safe to fly there?


Last question: what is a "Visa Waiver"? Does this mean no vise required or what else?
I think for flying based on a validation of a foreign licence, "Visa Waiver" is the answer of Naples Air Center concerning the other thread!?
How to get it, what does it cost, and how long to wait for it?

Best regards,
T/O

[FlyingForFun]

T/O,

No particular reason to base yourself in AZ over CA. The reason I based myself there was because of the flying school. I was looking for somewhere where I could rent both a tail-dragger and a twin, and I came across Chandler Air Service (http://www.aerobatics.com/), who not only have Cubs and a Husky for the tail-dragger flying and an Aztec for the twin flying (as well as loads of PA28s and a couple of C172s), they also do aerobatics, they have an Arrow which was useful for some of the longer trips, and I was very impressed with the overall attitude when I spoke to them on the phone (for about 1/2 hour).

They lived up to all my expectations - the instructors are some of the best, the checkouts are the most thorough I've ever heard of, and aerobatics are always taught to competition standards.

Phoenix itself is a nice place to live, although there's not a whole load there for tourists to do. That might suit you - you might prefer to fly to the touristy places rather than base yourself there.

As for the Visa Waiver, this has absolutely nothing to do with flying. Everyone who enters the US for any reason needs a Visa. However, for citizens of certain countries, the authorities have waived this requirement, and will allow you in under the Visa Waiver program, for a maximum of 3 months, providing you're not working or studying in the US. It doesn't cost anything, and it'll happen automatically as long as you have a passport from one of the appropriate countries. But you will still need to get your FAA pilots license sorted out if you haven't already (and it might be a bit late now if you're planning on going in a couple of weeks...)

FFF
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[slim_slag]

Lets say you bend the plane.

The FBO will probably be insured for the value of the hull less the excess, which is what they call the 'deductable' over here. You get to write the FBO a cheque (what they call a 'check' over here :)) for the deductable. You might also get charged for loss of their earnings while they are fixing the plane. This should work out to maybe $50 per day, but things are not always fair.

Deductables are usually around a couple of thousand bucks, but can be more if you are flying a taildragger or twin.

Depending on the FBO's arrangement with their insurance company, there might be a 'subrogation' clause. That means the insurance company can come after you for the money they paid the FBO. Usually (and I mean usually) they will only do this is you screw up right royally. You usually would have to be grossly negligent for them to do so, like depart into a thunderstorm without checking the weather. Something like running off the runway because you were a little careless would not be enough.

Usually.

You can buy renter insurance from Avemco (https://www.avemco.com/insuranceproducts/noliability.asp). Get $5000 aircraft damage and you will cover the FBO loss. I wouldn't worry about subrogation, you fly a plane and you take a risk. Subrogation is low down on the list. Also make sure you have medical cover for flying, you can get that with your UK travel insurance for a small load.

FFF

Phoenix itself is a nice place to live,

Though you normally post good stuff, I think you are starting to lose it :D. Phoenix is one of the most boring places on earth!! There is one good thing about the winter: I am sitting here in shorts and a T-shirt - yet in my bag under the desk are my jeans, raincoat, wooly hat, boots and thick jumpers. Just preparing for the weather in London tomorrow :)

[FlyingForFun]

:D slim_slag!

Didn't I say, in the same sentence, that there isn't a whole load to do there???

Personally, I don't mind if the place I live is a little boring. When I go on holiday somewhere, I usually prefer a bit of excitement - although if the aim of the holiday is to travel, there's no harm in basing yourself somewhere boring and travelling to the exciting places. But yes, I agree with you, although probably not the most boring place on the earth, Phoenix is certainly up there somewhere!

FFF
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[T/O]

Hello again,

of course the VISA has first nothing to do with flying but with entering the USA. But which kind of VISA I need depends on - as far as I understood Naples Air Center's post - whether I want to do flight training or flying based on a validation of a foreign license!?

Quote Naples Air Center
> 2) If you need to convert your licence to
> a Restricted F.A.A. Licence, you will need
> to submit the request to the F.A.A. in
> Oklahoma City so they can do a full background
> check; this process takes upwards of 60 days.
> If you get the o.k. to convert your licence you
> can enter the country on a Visa Waiver.

For my part, I'm coming from germany and I'm holder of a german license. Are there any requirements regarding VISA?
Or can I simply enter the USA (with passport) and flying (after Biannual Flight Review, Checkout and licence validation)?

> But you will still need to get your FAA pilots
> license sorted out if you haven't already (and
> it might be a bit late now if you're planning on
> going in a couple of weeks...)

I think you mean the FAA verification process which is required since sommer, do you? Don't worry, this has already been completed and confirmed.

T/O

[FlyingForFun]

If you've already got the verification process sorted out, then I think you're right - you don't need to do anything else. As far as I know, Germany is one of the Visa Waiver countries. But I don't know for certain - I'd definitely check that first, because if I'm wrong you'll need a Visa!

Having said that, bear this in mind: If you're hour-building, and not receiving any instruction, a Visa Waiver is all you need to enter the country. Now, how many immigration officials do you know who would know the difference between a check-out, a BFR, and "flight training"? And if the immigration officials decide not to let you in, you're not going in - you have no right to appeal.

So, if you've got time, I'd get a Visa even though it's not required. If you don't have time, I'd be very careful about volunteering information to immigration officials. Don't lie to them. Tell them you're there for a holiday (which is true - you're visiting for a flying holiday in much the same way as many people visit for a skiing holiday). If possible, leave all your flying gear at home in Germany, and buy whatever you can while you're there. I'm not suggesting that you do anything illegal here - I'm just telling you to cover your back in case the immigration officials are less up to speed with the law than you are.

Have fun!

FFF
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[whirlycopter]

I did all my helo training in Fresno CA. Had a great time, fantastic scenery closeby - yosemite and kings canyon etc. As an earlier poster mentioned nice quiet airport with very friendly atc.

I trained at Mazzei flying service and can thouroughly recommend them.

www.flymfs.com

My only caveat is that the central california valley is apparantly prone to thule(sp?) fog that can last for weeks at that time of year - suggest you contact mfs for the low down on the weather there.

Have fun!

[david viewing]

I have flown this area each November since 1985 and concur with the good advice already given here. Basically California can suffer from very poor vis and strong winds which make mountain flying unpleasant. I fly from North Las Vegas and from Prescott, Az and usually decamp to Prescott because the Vegas weather is prone to blow up with strong winds and dust storms at this time of year. On one occasion we sat on the terminal roof at VGT watching full size tornados march down the valley!

Of course, a lot of the time the Vegas and California weather is perfect at this time year. Even then, vis in the greater LA area can go down to a mile or two which can be a shock after 100's of miles of 9999 inbound from the E, looking for an unfamiliar airport in the world's busiest airspace!

Overall, I have found the only serious weather problems to be the fronts which sweep down from the NW and stretch from Mexico to Canada, bringing high winds and poor vis even occasionally in Az. And cloud on the mountains. They are highly predictable, but last for days and if you are to the E of one you just have to wait for it because the turbulence and mountain wash are no fun at all in a Cessna!

I have a site at http://www.viewing.com/arizona/arizmap.htm which you might find of interest.

Prescott is a nice provincial city with little crime, an excellent airport and cool conditions at 5000' altitude. I fly with Northaire although there are several FBO's. Prescott only loses 2-3 days each year through unflyable weather.

[WestWind1950]

hallo T/O!

ich wünsche dir viel Spaß in Kalifornien!!

yes, Germany is one of the countries with Visa waiver for the 3 months as a tourist.

I, too, am originally from San Diego (greetings West Coast!!) and can highly recommend it! My homebase when back home is Gillespie Field in El Cajon, just east of San Diego. There's a very nice and friendly flight school there, Golden State Flying Club. Check them out! http://www.gsfc.com/

tell them the hoemtown girl that moved to Germany >30 years ago sent you! :D

Weather could get foggy, but it's generally pretty good. In summer it gets almost unbearably hot, but in Nov., Dec. it should be nice.

Für weiter Info kannst du mir jederzeit ein E-Mail schicken! Woher kommst du in Deutschland? Ich wohne nah Frankfurt.....

keep flying!
West Wind 1950

[T/O]

Thanks again!

FlyingForFun & WestWind - please have a look at your private messages!

Any comments about Universal Air Academy in El Monte and Air Desert Pacific in La Verne?

T/O

[I. M. Esperto]

Embry Riddle in Prescott AZ is an excellent school, and Prescott is a very nice spot.

http://www.pr.erau.edu/


The whole are of the SW is great this time of year, but to be avoided in the summer.