Can I use a night rating as my bi-ennial training flight?

[28thJuly2001]

I am planning to get a night rating this winter and would like to know if this would be sufficient to satisfy the 1 hour training flight? My 2 years are up in July but I should have the 12 hours PIC and dual (including the 5 hours night flying) by January. Would the instructor be able to sign my Certificate of Experience then and date if from July or am I going to have to spend another £100 taking my instructor sight seeing?
Hope this makes sense. :)

Walt,,

[GoneWest]

I'm not sure your instructor can sign it, no matter what. It needs an examiner to do that.

My vote would go on "Yes" - the flight with JAA instructor could be night training (provided the flight is a minimum of 60 minutes duration).

Others will, no doubt, disagree.

[Flyin'Dutch']

IIRC you can only have it signed off in the last 3 months before the expiry date.

And yes that flying with an instructor for the procurement of a night rating will satisfy the requirement for the bi-annual flight review.

Frank

[rustle]

There's a surprising amount of information available from the CAA website www.caa.co.uk

Or try http:\\search.caa.co.uk (NB, no WWW prefix)

It took me 13 seconds to find this GID based on the search text
"PPL revalidation or renewal"

GID33 PDF (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_gid33.pdf)

Suggest reading the whole document as they do have a tendency to hide notes and examples in various subsections ;)

Extract from above:

Part 2 Revalidating an Aircraft Rating

Definition

Re-validation

The administrative action taken within the validity of a rating that allows the holder to continue to exercise the privileges of a rating for a further specified period ( provided certain, specified requirements are met ).

Aeroplanes

Single-Engine Piston (SEP) or TMG Class Ratings Re-validation

May be revalidated by passing a Licensing Proficiency Check (LPC) with an authorised Flight Examiner (FE(A)) or Class Rating Examiner (CRE(A)) within the three months preceding the expiry date of the rating without loss of validity period.

Alternatively, they may be revalidated on flying experience by producing logbook evidence to an authorised examiner of having completed the following within the 12 calendar months preceding the expiry date of the rating:-

12 hours of flight time in SEP or TMG aircraft as appropriate to include;
(i) 6 hours as pilot-in-command;
(ii) 12 take-offs and landings;
(iii) a single flight of at least 1 hour with an instructor* who must countersign the appropriate logbook entry.

* The instructor must be authorised in accordance with JAR-FCL to instruct for the JAR-FCL TMG or SEP rating as appropriate. This instructional flight may be replaced by successfully undertaking any proficiency check for an aeroplane class, type or licence rating (e.g. IMC, IR) with an examiner authorised in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.

•If renewing by flying experience, provided the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation page within the 12 months prior to the rating expiry, the revalidated rating will run from the date the existing rating would have expired.

•If the licence contains both SE piston and TMG ratings, revalidation requirements of both classes may be satisfied by completing the above requirements in EITHER a TMG or an SEP aeroplane ( or a combination of both ).

•An SEP Seaplane rating only may be re-validated by meeting the experience above in an SEP aeroplane (Land or Sea), however the 12 take-offs and landings must be on water. If both the SEP aeroplane (Land and Sea) are to be re-validated then a total of 24 take-offs and landings must be completed (12 on land and 12 on sea).

IMPORTANT NOTE
If the SEP or TMG Class Rating is revalidated by flying experience, then you must have your Certificate of Revalidation signed up within the existing expiry period of the rating(s). Failure to do so will result in you having to complete a Licensing Proficiency Check.

[28thJuly2001]

I did a search of the Caa site and Pprune but someone must have hidden that piece of information from me :D


"If renewing by flying experience, provided the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation page within the 12 months prior to the rating expiry, the revalidated rating will run from the date the existing rating would have expired. "

Lets me see if I have read the bumphh correctly.
When I have my 12 hours flying time in the previous 12 months the flight with the instructor to gain my night rating will count as my training flight... Correct?
He will then be able to sign my Certificate Of Revalidation as soon as I pass the 12 hours mark (even if I am mid-training for the night rating), anytime in the preceding 12 months and the date will run from July (my cut-off date).

Correct? or have I missed something.
Walt,,

[rustle]

Walt,

"I did a search of the Caa site and Pprune but someone must have hidden that piece of information from me..." - yeah, I hate it when that happens :)

So, in the 12 months to July 2003, to avoid having to do a LPC you need:

(i) 6 hours as pilot-in-command;

You say you will have this in your first post.

(ii) 12 take-offs and landings;

Well for night you need 5 full-stoppers minimum, and I'm sure you will have done some others = total 12 by July '03??

(iii) a single flight of at least 1 hour with an instructor who must countersign the appropriate logbook entry

Done, as long as your instructor signs this off - which he/she will have to do for issue of the night rating anyway (CAA check your log book)* ISTR you have to do a one-hour CX for night rating.

* even if it isn't mandatory, ask him/her to sign off your night rating training in your logbook.

[28thJuly2001]

Rustle,
Thanks for taking the time to answer, although I am sure my instructor would have known the requirements :D it is always good to get a second (or third) opinion.

Walt,,

[StrateandLevel]

"Lets me see if I have read the bumphh correctly.
When I have my 12 hours flying time in the previous 12 months the flight with the instructor to gain my night rating will count as my training flight... Correct?

Correct

He will then be able to sign my Certificate Of Revalidation as soon as I pass the 12 hours mark ?

Instructor signs for Training flight, only an EXAMINER can sign the C of Revalidation.