How soon to do an IMC?

[ChiSau]

I'm getting slightly ahead of myself here in that I haven't sat my skills test yet (mock next week), but.....

how soon after getting your PPL is it appropriate to do your IMC?

I've got 5 days holiday left to take this year, so I could stich 9 days together and get out to the US to do it (if that's long enough). It appeals because I think it'll make me a better pilot. I have the holiday days left and so it makes sense from that perspective and I'd get 7 days flying in a row which I won't manage in the UK I'm sure! :) :)

I've asked a couple of friends who are experienced pilots who have said get I should get some experience VFR first, but I was wondering what other people thought??

[Fred]

You need something like 10 or 20 hrs P1 since PPL anyway (sorry can't quite remember precisely) before you can get the rating. After that why wait? You can only fly VFR two or three afternoons a year in this weather-beaten country.:(

[AerBabe]

I think you have to have 20h P1 before you can apply for the rating... but those 20 hours can include the IMC training.
You say you'd do it in the US, because you'd get the weather for it... but surely the point is to get used to flying in cloud? It's not ideal training to go out to the US in glorious sunshine, and stick a pair of foggles on. :)

[maggioneato]

I left it for a year before doing the IMC rating,working on the theory the more comfortable I was with VFR flying, the less cabbaged my brain would be instrument flying, so I enjoyed checking out different aircraft types,and generally enjoying myself. Have done two renewals since then,will there be a third? don't know. I certainly wanted to do the rating here in the UK, seemed logical to learn where you fly, but then you guys might say women don't have logic!;)

[Rusty Cessna]

Ive had my PPL a few months now, but havent managed nearly as much flying as Id like to have done. I did half a night rating and decided that id much prefer to do an IMC then a night, id be much more comfortable.

I beleive the requirments are 25 hours post PPL, of which 15 can be the IMC training and 10 must be P1, not sure if you have to have the 10 before applying for the rating, or comencing the training.

Rusty.

[drauk]

Rusty Cessna is right about the requirements, with the additional requirement that 5 hours of the 10 hours P1 must be cross-country, but it'd be unlikely that they wouldn't be I would have thought.

Also, to clarify, you need to meet these requirements when you apply for the rating, not when you start the IMC training.

Personally I think doing it in the UK is a good idea - remember that you won't have the frustration of lessons cancelled due to weather nearly as often as you do when you are doing your PPL. RT, which differs somewhat between UK and US, is more important in IMC.

As for doing it now or waiting till you've done more VFR flying, personally I don't see any downside in doing it now and there are plenty of advantages. It will improve your confidence and abilities to fly, even under VMC.

[Julian]

Chisau,

I would wait until you have a few hours under your belt and got used to flying on your tod and then next year when you have a full holiday quota go out to the US and take the FAA IR course instead of the IMC. Its a 40hour course for not much more than the IMC and you will come away with TWO licences - the FAA IR and on your return you are entitled to add the IMC to your UK for FREE!!! (Except the £64 fee which you would have to pay anyway!). I took (and passed) the IR with 60hours entry, I passed in a further 60hours which was mainly due to the fact we took the instructor touring for 2 weeks rather than just flying round in circles as you would if you did a bitty flying hours course.

Its a hard course but well worth the satisfaction of passing at the end of it. The other plus side is if you did find yourself in IMC unexpectedly you would have more of an idea of how to deal with the situation than a 15 hr IMC.

As for weather in California its not all blazing Baywatch sunshine! Sorry to dissappoint you Aerbabe :D A good example of this is the 'marine layer' of low fog which is present most mornings and burns off by lunchtime, good for practicing in with a safety pilot. If you venture just outside of LGB you will find proper IMC as well as other environments to practice in, including desert, high density altitudes and ski resorts!

Anyway I am off out there again in a week for 3 weeks flying over the US :D

Have fun what ever you decide.

Julian.

[charlie flyer]

You need to have 25 hrs before the issue of the IMC rating.
15 hrs of which can be made up of the IMC course.
You need to have at least 10 hrs P1.
Somebody might be able to help me here.
Because it says in the CAA information that you need at least 5 hrs cross country but it doesn't state if those hours have to be XC with a land away or not.

I landed away just in case.

I don't know about going to the states to do an IMC.
An IMC rating is only valid within the UK.

Does anyone know if they have a similar rating in the USA.

[Evo]

A 'cross-country' is anything that takes you more that 3nm (IIRC)from the airfield, so unless you are doing circuits it is cross country time. Odd, but there you go. :)

[Rusty Cessna]

So it doesnt have to be in the logbook as "cross country" or "exercise 18"?

Rusty.

[Keef]

Cross-country is different in the USA and the UK. I can't remember the exact definition, but it's something like:

UK - left the circuit. I suppose the "Bomber command" or "International" circuits at some of our airfields might even qualify.

US - 25nm from home base. Real navigation required!

You can indeed convert a US IR to an IMC rating. The US IR is a LOT more difficult and exacting than the IMC (I have both).

You'd need several weeks to do a US IR from scratch (well, I would). It's worth doing - but to be safe, I would want to do a fair bit of "conversion" to UK/European ways if I'd not done any IFR flying here. Taking a US IR and flying IFR in Europe without further training might be "an experience".

So, my choice would be to do the IMC rating in the UK, in real UK weather etc, then use it for real (keep it current!). After you've got 40 to 50 hours *real* IMC flying in the logbook, then go and do the US IR.

Then, of course, you need an N-reg aircraft to use the IR "in anger" over here.

[englishal]

US X/C is 50nm from point of departure to point of destination, in a straight line, so taking off from Bournemouth, do a tour of Dorset and then land at Compton Abbas won't count I'm afraid.

I vote for the FAA IR route. On return, you send a copy of your FAA licence with an IMC application form and 64 quid to the CAA and they kindly send you back an IMC rating....

Instrument flying does make you a much more accurate pilot, and I would recommend it as a next step.

Good luck,

EA:)

[Julian]

Yep, as EA says, XC is 50nm between points, the qualifying XC was about 200-250nm (cant remember now!) - and in *real* IMC ! I flew Long Beach-Brown(Mexican border with Tijuana)-Palm Springs-LGB.

I am still a bit bedazzled by why guys think there is no IMC in the US! Maybe its because most goto Florida which is excellent weather (I was only there for 2 wks but was throwing myself from aircraft rather than flying them). CA will have you flying in whatever weather you like.

You can, if you wish, even take the IMC course in the US, there is a school who teach (and examine) over there. I didnt find any probs with flying IFr on my return apart from the radio was a bit different, but soon got into the swing of things with that..

Julian.

[Evo]

Rusty - I think that if it's not "Ex. 12 & 13" or "circuits" then it's cross country by implication.

A confusing issue is what happens if you do a touch and go or three after a cross country - never did find out what the time counts as in that case (is it all cross country? some of it? And what do you write in the logbook?). Almost never matters, but it did for my PPL application. Five of your minimum 10 hours P1 must be cross country, but I never had any problems with nav and skipped a couple of 'easy' (i.e. cannot get lost) solo navexs. In the end I only did three solo trips, one of which was my QXC, and they only added up to about 4.5 hours. However, I also had a quick solo to the local area and back for a rejoin which included a couple of flapless touch and gos at the end - 0.6 hours solo in total. Nobody could figure out if that gave me 5.1 hours cross country or not, so as it was a sunny day I took the easy way out and headed off for half an hour solo... :)