How to get in...

[ATCcurious]

Theres a possibility I might be made redundant in the next 6 months and unlike some, I'm desparately hoping it happens to get out of the IT ratrace and go do something real. I've been thinking about ATC and I'm curious about how the licensing system works and how one would go about getting to the point of being a fully-fledged ATCO. I've done some digging on this forum and come up with the following.

I know the easiest way is to go and get NATS to pay for it, but what if that route isn't open to you (eg too old and wizened!)? I've had a trawl through the postings and it looks like most often folk get themselves taken on as ATSAs by SERCO or some other ATC providers and then hope that they'll get put on the training courses at some point in the future.

What about the self-funded option?

So far I understand the following (and please correct the bits that are wrong!)

You can go to CATC, ASTAC or Shearwater and get your self an ADC course for about £15k, but at the end of this, all you have is the bit of paper and no certificate of competency so you can't actually do anything. (BTW, I understand that this includes some flying training - given I already have a PPL, can a discount get negotiated on this to exclude the flying?)

What exactly needs to be done to turn this bit of paper into a 'valid' licence? Is it all down to experience, so the only way to do it, is to get taken on as a trainee? How long does the training last after this stage? (I've seen NATS mentioned as 18 month at Hurn and then 18 months till valid, but I'm assuming this covers a lot more than just the ADC course).

It seems from what I've seen in other threads that an ADC course on its own is unlikely to get you a job anywhere (is that right?) so the last para would appear to be purely theoretical, and the reality is that you would still have to get taken on as an ATSA while they suss you out. Is that true?

What about if you were to add an APP or even APR to that? Does it make much difference? Are APP and APR complementary or do you do APP and then APR? Is it only NATS who provide area ratings? Does anyone in the UK other than NATS have area controllers?

Also, I'm guessing that ADC lets you work Tower, whereas to work Approach you need APP or APR as appropriate to the facility, is that correct?

Would the non-NATS providers (SERCO, Safeskies or the airports themselves in some cases I think) be interested in a deal whereby you agree to, say, a six month trial as an ATSA and then, if both parties are happy, offer to self-fund the ADC course with a view to then being funded by them for APP or APR? Would it make me incredibly unpopular with others ?!

Finally, roughly how much does an ATSA earn?

Hmm, a lot of questions.... Thanks for any help.

[eyeinthesky]

What a lot of questions, many of which I can't answer.

However, be aware that the 15 hours flying between ADC1 and 2 is for NATS-sponsored courses only.

My IMPRESSION (and it is no more than that) is that NATS is not terribly keen on taking on people from outside when they have a surplus of trainees trying to get into the airports. I can't speak for the non-NATS units.

Forget any ideas about trying to get into Area Radar self-sponsored. Other than a transfer from the military or occasionally from other countries, it won't happen.

Some NATS aerodromes are going down the road of tower-only now, with the approach units located with the radar unit at West Drayton (this includes Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton and Stansted and maybe Southampton one day?). Beyond that, many units start with tower validations and then extend you onto approach as need arises, but the cost of an approach/approach radar course makes this a big undertaking.

Finally, I don't know how often/whether the College of Knowledge runs courses to which self-sonsored people can apply. They seem to contract out to other countries such as Netherlands, and I don't know whether you would be able to tack onto one of them.

Not much help, I'm afraid, but good luck with whatever you decide, but be prepared for a long haul.

[professor yaffle]

can't help you with a lot of those questions, i'm afraid - wouldn't be sure of the accuracy of my answers!
try going to visit atc units - both nats and non-state to get some or all of you queries answered -

as far as i am aware though nats is still recruiting like mad so even if you are above the age limit - they may take you on after you have selffunded - but don't quote me on that one - 'cos not certain if that happens with folk with no previous experience

good luck with what you decide

prof

[achtung]

Of course it depends on how old you are, but have you considered making enquiries with Eurocontrol Maastricht?

[Bern Oulli]

1. The College of Knowledge does add "fare payers", when possible, to NATS courses. More than one "elderly" person has been seen mixing with the kids. Most often however they are usually shortly to retire military persons converting to civil (at their own expense). Having said that people with no previous have been known to pass through - usually successfully - let's face it, shelling out £6 - 7k of your own hard-earned tends to concentrate the mind a bit!

2. Joining a Dutch course is not on - it is carefully(?) designed for the Dutch and as such would not get you a British rating.

3. If you really want to do it - do it.

[spekesoftly]

AFAIK, outside NATS, Bae Warton is the only UK ATC unit that employs civil Area Rated ATCOs - and they also require ADC and APR ratings.

[matspart3]

In my Non-NATS experience
1. No discount for PPL, not part of the 'syllabus
2. You need to begin training towards the Certification of your ADC Rating within 12 months of completeing the course. For an initial validation, you'll need to undergo a minimum of 180 hours of supervised training. You can only count 4 hours per day, so allowing for the appropriate rest days etc. this will take a minimum of 2-3 months, depending on the quality of you and your Instructors! You're then examined (practically and orally) by an CAA Examiner. If you pass, your then valid for 13 months. Many units (usually the larger and more complex) will have their own Training Plan and Examiners, but the same requirements apply.
3. Some Non-NATS Units will employ ADC only rated people with or without a view to future training, but you'll probably be at the bottom of the pay scale.
4. Additional Ratings will make you more of a commodity but it's a big investment with no guarantee of a return....and you'll still have no, or very little experience. Smaller Units will require you to have an APP rating but some of the larger regional airports employ ADC and APR only Rated staff.
5. Area is really only the domain of NATS...besides you don't actually get to see any aeroplanes...if you want to get out of the IT Ratrace, do you really want to work somewhere that looks like PC World?:D
6. Worth a try. Talk to Shearwater or ASTAC too. They probably have a better idea of the marketplace than most. There is a shortage, it will get worse and I can see units like having to look at recruitment from a different angle, like the one you're suggesting, in the future.
7. ATSA's get paid peanuts generally...but it's a great way to gain valuable experience.
8. YOU NEED TO GET A CAA CLASS ONE MEDICAL BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING.
Hope this helps

[ATCcurious]

Thanks for all the answers, particularly matspart3. Definitely sounds worth thinking about. I think I'll quietly go away and do some more digging for a while.

Any other comments also appreciated.

PS matspart3: full marks for comment on the area side!

[mainecoon]

part3 v poor on your part re-area

we at manchester acc see aircraft all the time(or on breaks out of the window in most cases)

more study required:)