EMA arrival/departures

[Flex33]

The handover between London - Manchester - EMA, is there any sign of this changing? It's always at a busy time for us & often seems a busy time for Manchester.

Arriving from the south descending early across London, but being held at FL250 until past Hemel leaves the A320/1 high on the profile. If we are given a significant descent thereafter we are able to regain the profile. However, when dropped a couple of thousand at a time all we can do is slow down. No doubt this just compounds your problems of traffic coordination, are there any plans to alleviate the problem?

In the early hours when we are given direct Sapco, EME/W or Centre Fix, it's greatly appreciated. It can save 4 minutes on the trip, thanks!!!

[Expeditedescent]

Flex,

I couldn't agree more.

Speaking as a Welin controller (the sector you get handed over to descending to FL200 L WELIN), the interface around SAPCO is a recipe for disaster.

In and around that area you have up to 6 separate radar controllers working traffic........COWLY SC, WELIN SC, TRENT SC, STAFA SC, Birmingham Radar and East Midlands Radar. The whole area round SAPCO, especially with Birmingham on runway 15 is a serious incident waiting to happen.

Personally I would favour WELIN having a box of airspace at FL100 and below up to the EGNX CTA and to accept and hand traffic directly to EGNX. This would cut Manchester out of the loop and reduce co-ordination and agencies working traffic all around the same area.

I'm afraid though Flex that the high profile descent cannot change with regard to FL100 at SAPCO due to the Lichfield Military corridor which is often active at FL110........you really cannot afford to be high at SAPCO.
The problem stems from the fact that the DTY Sector 28 Standing Agreement to WELIN is FL200 at WELIN....if there are any delays with the transfer I can appreicate it leaves you too high.

Something that DTY do regularly now is phone to ask to drop to FL200 early, which we grant subject to EGBB inbounds which we get at FL220 from LMS.......so more often than not now NX inbounds get early descent.

I am sorry it is often not possible to give you good descent from 200 down, but there is a multitude of other traffic that WELIN has to deal with.....NX departures, BB departures, TMA outbounds, and Birmingham inbounds not to mention overflights.
We do appreciate the NX inbound problem, however it cannot really be solved by us on the shop floor, it has to be addressed higher up.

Hope that has enlightened :)

[mainecoon]

expedite agree big time

you know the script ecbb on 15 bad probs

don't want or think it's setting anything but you and i know when its busy and if i pick up the phone i may say yes subject lic110 mil thing go for it

much better working with you than the set in therer ways old school:p

[hatsoff]

The whole area round SAPCO, especially with Birmingham on runway 15 is a serious incident waiting to happen.

Actually it did happen , that's why Manchester can't get rid of NX southbound traffic to TC - much as they'd like to.

Until NX gets some decent airspace around it there's not much to be done. But tell that to the GA Lobby at Leicester , the
Military and the Gliding fraternity :(

Meanwhile we muddle through as best we can , while the guys at NX attempt to vector in airspace that's far too small and limited to FL75.

So , sorry Flex , we know it's crap and we don't expect miracles from you.

[Flex33]

Thanks folks, I now appreciate that you are as frustrated as we are.

[almost professional]

Flex may have noticed the extended tours of derbyshire and notts-not always our fault!
however watch this space with regard to airspace, things are in train, funnily enough don't think there will be a problem with EGBG, but with luck many of the present problems will be a thing of the past