How long do you take to do a pre-flight check?

[Future Pundit]

I am a relative newcomer to flying having just gained a PPL, however I am an experienced glider pilot and have a number of years working as an engineer.

Watching other members of my club I have been surprised by the very casual attitude of some towards pre-flight checks. Many seem to think that a quick look at the fuel and lubricants will suffice.

I have been in gliding long enough to witness accidents and incidents that have resulted from poor pre-flights (disconnect elevator, tailplane, asi etc). Granted a C152 may not be taken apart with the same frequency as a glider, but you still have to check.

I am generally quick, but methodical and thorough. What are the standards like generally?

[tacpot]

My experience is that the standard of pre-flight checks is very variable.

I've seen people that know their aircraft inside out, go over it with an eagle eye taking 10-15 minutes to do so, in addition to any work necessary to ready the a/c for flight. I've also seen people who should know better hope into their a/c and go flying with barely a glance over the a/c, or even pre-take off checks :eek: .

When I do a pre-flight check amongst other things, I'm looking for something new to check each time. It keeps the interest up.

I think you also have to put the pre-flight check in context. Asking yourself "When was the aircraft last flown, who flew it last, where has the aircraft been stood since?" may indicate additional checks need to be made, or certain area looked at more closely.

But generally, I would say the standard is not as it should be.

[logie_bear]

External pre-flight - normally around 5-10 minutes. This is a pretty thorough and structured check of the entire airframe.

Internal pre-flight (pre-engine start) - anything from 2-3 mins when solo to 10 or so mins when new pax are on board.

Take as much time as you need to be 100% comfortable. Agree with tacpot, I've seen some very 'relaxed' pre-flights. The overall standard could be improved IMHO.

l_b

[AerBabe]

Agree with tacpot that it depends on the situation. If I've landed away somewhere and I'm doing a walk round before I head back I'll not check everything, but always fuel and oil. If the aircraft has not been flown for a while I'll be a lot more thorough. Can't give you timings on this as I've never taken any notice!
I would never feel happy just jumping in and heading off.

[englishal]

Yea, if you've been flying somewhere, its not generally nescessary for a 'full' PFC...but I ALWAYS check the fuel and oil and do a walk around, (and possibly pull the wings and tail to make sure they don't fall off :D )..

Cheers
EA:)

[FlyingForFun]

My pre-flights vary. The first one of the day will take 10-15 minutes. If I've stopped to pay a landing fee and then I'm hopping straight back in, I'll do a quick "nothing dripping, nothing dangling" type of check. And there are various stages in between. I will also always check the fuel for water immediately after re-fuelling, as well as the first flight of each day.

I have seen some people just hop in and go, but I don't like to be too quick to judge. It may be that they've pre-flighted, then gone back to the club house to use the toilet - all you see is someone walk out of the clubhouse, jump in and go, whereas they've actually already done a thorough pre-flight.

FFF
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[Father Mulcahy]

I always pre-flight every time I fly, obviously more detailed on the first flight of the day.

Being an ex-glider pilot myself the main difference you'll find is that gliders have infinitely more places to open up and look inside to check cables etc etc (after all they are designed to come apart !). Modern GA aircraft there is very little you can actually have a right good butchers at, so a walkaround takes less time.

In the cockpit the situation is reversed....

Father Mulcahy

[englishal]

immediately after re-fuelling
Although you might as well not bother if you check it straight after refueling.....;)

EA:)

[AerBabe]

FFF I'll do a quick "nothing dripping, nothing dangling" type of check
Yes... but what about the aeroplane?? ;) :D :D

[GroundBound]

Somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes.

I always do much the same check, every time. Check all the lights are working - usually the landing light isn't and sometimes the nav lights don't. A quick tap with the heel of my hand got that up and running though :). Doesn't stop me flying VFR, day time, although I prefer to have them.

Check the flaps, locking nuts, full aileron movement, fuel filler caps locked, after I've checked the contents (bit of a b*****r on the C172, though), and drawn some from the drains. Wheels, tyres, hydraulic leaks, static vent, spinner, alternator, and prop for nicks. I always check the oil level. Same again down the other side. Quick look to see the aerials are not dangling, elevator full movement, and trim tab movement. Can't do much about the rudder, except check the connecting cables are there.

Someone will tell me I forgot something, I'm sure - that's why I have to use the check list!

Trouble is, I have never found anything amiss (except the landing light, which seems standard). The temptation not to do the same each time, especially if the aeroplane :D has been recently flown (which is normally the case - if it ain't flying it ain't making money for someone!), makes it tempting to shorten the PFC to fuel and oil, though :eek:

[Cat.S]

I always do a thorough pre-flight check as 7 a/c I use are flown by many people and usually do up to 25 hrs a week each. Found water in fuel a couple of times, odd lights u/s, minor oil leaks twice, but only one serious fault requiring immediate grounding and that was a leaking nosewheel oleo.

Proper closing down checks are also important. Yesterday I got no mag drop on one side on closing down. It was okay before take off, but not afterwards. As I routinely have to move the prop to get a/c out onto apron there is the potential for an unpleasant accident here if one mag had welded itself shut!

[FlyingForFun]

englishal, very good point - I probably do check the fuel far too soon after re-fuelling. Not a problem if I'm just re-fuelling at the end of the day, because it will be re-checked before the first flight of the next day. But I should get into the habit of leaving the fuel to settle for a while before checking it.

AerBabe, the nothing dripping, nothing dangling check is for the aeroplane. When checking myself, I prefer that things are dangling - well, depending on the circumstances of course! ;)

There have been two occassions when I haven't flown as a result of a pre-flight, both on Super Cubs. One time I was checking the trim, when the trim handle came off in my hand. The engineering department looked at it, and said that although it could be patched up quite easilly, it was illegal to use anything except the correct part, and it would take a week or more to order the part. Frustrating. The second time was my first (dual) flight in the USA, when I found a tear in the skin of the tailplane. The aircraft at the school I was flying from, although perfectly safe, were not as well maintained as many UK schools, and the paint was peeling off in places. When I told my instructor, I'm sure he was expecting me to point out a bit of flaking paint, probably having experienced similar reactions from visiting British pilots in the past. He was quite surprised to find that the fabric really was torn.

Other times, I've only realised that the ground staff at the airfield have chocked the wheels of the aircraft when I went to look at the wheel as part of the pre-flight, or I've completely forgotten about the pitot cover on a new aircraft (when the old aircraft didn't have one) until I noticed it on the pre-flight. Pre-flight is not something I'd even consider skipping!

Oh, as others have said, I always check the oil before every flight. I'd also like to check the coolant, but I don't want to risk burning myself if the engine is hot - anyone got any suggestions on this one? Most aircraft don't have coolant, so probably not something that affects most pilots, but what do you Rotax owners do?

FFF
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[Negative Charlie]

GroundBound 's advice on fixing a dodgy light - "A quick tap with the heel of my hand" - reminds me of the last time I did that.

The quick tap was followed by an even quicker trip to A&E to get my slashed wrist sewn back together before I ran out of blood. I'm now left with a beautiful scar that raises eyebrows whenever I get my medical renewed ("are you sure you don't have any suicidal tendencies?"), and a healthy respect for the effects of broken glass.

Hit it with your shoe instead. It's more stylish, and a lot safer.

[englishal]

Twice I haven't flown due to something amiss. First time, on the run-up checks, the Magneto was giving my sh*t, so I thought I better not fly....the second time, I preflighted the aircraft (C172) and it was fine in that respect...however I could see light down between the rudder pedals, and the drivers seat was tilted too far back and wouldn't move....so I though best to not risk it ;)...oh yea, and the one where the fuel test valve stuck open, had to block it up with a bit of chewing gum. (Still it flew ok :D )

Cheers
EA:)

[bertiethebadger]

My checks start when I'm walking up to the ac. From a slight distance it is easier to see if the plane looks right ( no collapsed olio etc )

Next the external electrics. Battery on, check lights, stall warner, pitot heat, etc, battery off.

Then the rest.

Like most people, I only transit check if I flew the ac somewhere & am flying it back the same day.

[sennadog]

I always give it a thorough going over regardless of how many flights it's had that day or whether I've flown it. I check all surfaces by running my hands and eyes over it and even wiggle all the screws and nuts that I can see.

Why?

Well, I'm fairly impatient and could easily become one of those jump in and fly types and I'm not prepared to become one. I always check the coolant (inevitably I burn my hands), oil and fuel but only after it has been refuelled.

I turned up what I thought was a major fault the last time I was up on the Katana. I was wiggling the nuts on the starboard brake caliper when I noticed that the whole unit moved which I decided was dodgy. I reported it and was told that it was probably due to the last pilot not applying even pressure on the the brakes prior to putting the parking brake on. I took the parking brake off, applied equal pressure and reapplied it and hey presto, it worked.

So, I learnt something. If this had happened at another airfield the chances are that I would not have taken off or had to muck around phoning the club to get advice which would have taken the edge of the whole flight.

[criticalmass]

With the microlight it takes between 10 and 15 minutes to do the daily inspection before the first flight, and with an aircraft as open, small and minimally-built you can check everything except peering into each cylinder. And that's what you do...you check everything you can reach, touch and see in the wing, pod and engine.

I assume the worst...rats have made a nest inside the wing, something has gnawed through a fuel-line or rigging-wire, the fuel-filter is totally clogged, my coolant has all leaked out (in spite of there being not a single drop in evidence on the hangar floor), the prop hub-bolts are all lose or one is missing, the exhaust-brackets are all cracked at the welded flanges (which they occasionally do), the throttle cable is frayed, my electrical system is disassembling itself because of vibration, the tyres are flat etc etc etc. Mostly I find nothing untoward has actually happened so that when when I strap the aircraft to my rear end I do so with a reasonable expectation that it will perform reliably and not give me any in-flight surprises.

Occasionally I do find something that needs immediate attention...or attention within the next hour...or tomorrow. Depends on what the problem is, how hard it is to fix and can I get the parts on a weekend etc. Whenever I find something, it reminds me of just why I do these checks.

After first flight of the day, the usual pre-and post-engine start checks cover most everything but I take time to ensure any pax are properly secured and have a pre-flight briefing about all aspects of the flight with special emphasis on securing all lose objects.

Yes, I know it's "only a microlight" but it is still an aircraft and as the pilot-in-command I take safety in flying very seriously.

[bertiethebadger]

Just before my Skills Test, my instructor was making me check everything. During this, I noticed that the fire extinguisher & first aid kit were out of date.

I'm saying this as it's something very easy to miss & if they're ever needed....

[TheKentishFledgling]

I did my first "solo" pre-flight today, and I think it must have taken 10-15 mins.

The hardest bit was trying to see if there was any fuel in the tanks....with my sunglasses on it made it too dark, with them off the sun reflected too much off the white wing!

Ah well, exercises 7+8 complete - next lesson on Saturday!

tKF

[RW05]

Isn't it strange that only those who take ages over the pre flight checks are posting here? Hopefully those who don't are reading and learning. I'm always thorough, no matter how long it takes, and I have found things to prevent the aircraft flying safely, and some of the faults had obviously not just happened, so others missed them and flew. Scarey! And I have seen people whose pre flight check consisted of a walk up to the aircraft and back to the club house, and I KNOW they hadn't already done it. I can't help but feel that some of the fault lies with instructors who don't impress hard enough on their students the importance of the pre flight, perhaps because they don't understand themselves. I've had to talk instructors out of flying an aircraft I've found a fault with, but because I work with aircraft and know them they listen to me, but why do I, a humble PPL, need to talk an instructor into grounding an aircraft? As far as I'm concerned, no matter how many times the aircraft's been up during the day before I get my hands on it, I always assume the others have been the 'walk round and if the wings are attached it's okay' types. Bit different if I've landed away somewhere. Then it's just fuel and oil but still a slow walk round to make sure no-one's bumped into it/pulled something off in my absence.

[bookworm]

Some years ago, the US magazine Flying did a study of fatal accidents caused by inadequate preflight inspections. The results will surprise many who have posted here. They concluded that if you ensure that your aircraft has enough, clean fuel and that it isn't tied to anything, you'll have avoided almost all of the 'defects' that caused fatal accidents.

I don't doubt that a good external preflight can save some considerable expense. But I've found few defects on an external preflight that were potentially dangerous and that would not have been picked up in other checks when in the cockpit.

Most fatal accidents are caused by metal errors on the part of the pilot. I'd like to believe that all those pilots who spend a long time on the preflight have spent a proportionate time thinking about and preparing for the flight. If time is limited, I think you get greater utility from mental rather than perceptive efforts.

I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from a careful and thorough external pre-flight. I certainly try to perform one, paying particular attention to fuel, oil and chocks/tiedowns. But let's not get too judgemental.

[EI_Sparks]

I dunno bookworm, I'd be with senna on this one - most GA planes are older than Mir, and preflighting some of them should be considered to be proof that the pilot isn't suicidal :)
:p

[Keef]

I'm with bookworm. I've been preflighting various single-engined aircraft for about 25 years, and the only faults I've found in all that time have been:

- low fuel
- low oil
- low tyre pressure
- dent in wing from birdstrike.

The first three I fixed easily, the fourth is still there.

I still do a full "Check A" at the beginning of the day, and a quicker check thereafter if I land and fly again.

NEVER found water in fuel (well done, EGMC), never found any wirelocks or bits missing. But STILL I check every time.

Let's not get paranoid, eh?

[AviLGH]

Hey guys,

I'm still working towards my PPL but I have done a couple of pre-flights on my own. Generally it seems to take me around 20 minutes to check everything on the C172 we use. Make that 30 for a complete check including flaps and fuel draining - if it's the first flight of the day.

Naturally I will be able to do it quicker as I become more familiar with everything - but I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything less than 10 minutes. (If I ever do it in less time then I for sure have forgotten something) I prefer to check everything on the ground until I'm sure it's ok, rather than for example having an engine fire at 3000 ft while realising that the fire extinguisher is empty.

Besides, I think it's kinda fun to pre-flight:)

[Doudou]

Hi there, I think it takes me about like 10-15 min, like most of the people, and NO MATTER IF IT'S FIRST OR TWENTYTH FLIGHT OF THE DAY, I don't know what the guy before did!.
But I think the pre take off check is as important as the rest, did you notice how many plane have bad spark plugs, These planes are so old that you need to clean them almost every flight. Once, I couldn't even clean them, the plane was still running rough, I'm glad that day I checked everything well.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Keef - is G-UTSY hangared?

tKF

[Keef]

tKF - negative. She sits on the apron at EGMC with a nice Cambrai cover to keep the rain off.

She used to be on the grass by the railway line (next to the Vulcan), but the local yobs took to climbing over the fence and removing filler caps etc, so we moved to the apron. Dearer but worth it.

Preflight checks in spring do include "No birds nesting up any apertures" - not on the official checklist, but certainly on mine ;)

Likewise "no wasps in cockpit", "no spiders up pitot or static tubes" and some others of that nature.

Being a group aircraft, it's unusual for more than one person to fly her in any one day (unless several of us go on a trip together). Check A is serious, checks thereafter more directed.

[Tinker]

A preflight takes as long a it takes. A qualified instructor will be adequately trainned to show you what you should be looking for during your walk round. As an experienced pilot, only you know what you are happy with. Try not to pay to much heed to the Walter Mitty types who think they know better than their instructor. Leave them to do what they think they must, but satisfy yourself in your own time that the aircraft you are about to fly is airworthy.

[juswonnafly]

Yup, I go with Keef and Bookworm on this one. Keeping a sense of perspective.

However it is a personal matter so do what you feel comfortable with.

Regarding fuel, if it comes from an 'official source' it will have already been checked for water first thing every day. As for checking fuel on Check 'A' do NOT hold up the tester to the sky on a clear day to check for colour.........................(think about that one......blue sky..........blue fuel?).

The 3 most important checks you can do to an aeroplane that has already flown that day are........walk round 'looking'............check fuel contents.........check oil contents. Thease are the ones likely to expose a serious threat.

Enjoy :D

JWF

[TheKentishFledgling]

"no wasps in cockpit",

Definately. Yesterday, climbing through 2000', I moved the cool air inlet thingy on the 152 (the thing at the top of the windscreen) and both the instructor and I thought a wasp or fly had flown in. It scared the living cr*p out of me and Bob....he says I'm never likely to see an instructor move do quickly again, grabbing his kneeboard and preparing to swat! :D

It was actually only a bit of black paper that was on the dashboard the size of a fly, that had been thrown up by the cool air.

tKF

PS Talking about it afterwards, we both think it would have been impossible for a fly to get in through the air vent at 70 knots :cool:

[Bouncy Landing]

When I first learn't to fly 20 years ago my instructor taught me to do what I now know as a full "Check A" before every flight and it never occoured to me to do otherwise (less). More recently when revalidating after a period away from aviation it was suggested that I did not need to be quite so extreme unless it WAS the first flight of the day, but old habbits die hard, and I ALWAYS do a full "Check A", even on a return flight, except if the aircraft has lilterally not left my sight, and even then I still do a reasonably thorough walkround.

Most importantly I completely ignore the fuel gauges and if I'm not satisfied with the visual fuel state, I'll refuel so I know where I'm starting from.

As a postscript, remember the old adage: there are old pilots and bold pilots, but very few old bold pilots. With a one year old son I'd prefer membership of the former rather than the latter group.

[bookworm]

Regarding fuel, if it comes from an 'official source' it will have already been checked for water first thing every day

This is true, but I would recommend rechecking the fuel if there is any chance of water having got in, for example if it has been raining, after that first check (either on the aircraft or on the fuel source). Fuel caps are often imperfect.

[sennadog]

Keef. I disagree with you here. Keep a sense of perspective by all means but many of us here are renting aircraft that have been used for training and other low hours PPLs during the day.

Who's to say that they haven't had a hard landing earlier in the day which hasn't been reported? If I can check over an aircraft which to the best of my technical knowledge looks free from defects, regardless of who else has checked it over before me then that is a confidence boost.

I also found a fire extinguisher that was out of date last week and I've no idea how many people prior to myself had performed an A check since it had run out. OK, not the end of the world but it makes you wonder.......

[EI_Sparks]

Keef, on paranoia :
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."
This, combined with the teachings of the great God Finagle (through his mad prophet Murphy) - Finagle's Law, for the uneducated, states that the perversity of the universe tends towards a egocentric maxima - has convinced me that paranoia is the only way to go :)
(And I look both ways crossing a one-way street, but that's because I know too much about Irish drivers from driving amongst them!)

[Kermit 180]

I sometimes ask my students if they remembered to check the water in the radiator before they got in. You would be surprised (or maybe not) how many get out and trundle around the front looking for the radiator. A sure sign that they either have never been shown how to preflight properly, or that they have not learned the checks. Another good one is asking a student to check the static vent on a PA-28. Those of you who fly the PA-28 will know the static vent is part of the pitot head, as opposed to the more usual method of having vents on the sides of the fuselage. As for time, I would say anything less than 10 minutes is skimping, and a clean wind screen is also a pre-requisite before any flight.

Kermie:cool:

[bertiethebadger]

Another thing I've offen seen people not checking is the hydrolic brake fluid.

Though I've never seen it anywhere but on the line, it's nice to know that I have a good chance of stoping before I do my brake checks on taxying.

[QNH 1013]

Well I'm going to break ranks and say that my pre-flight inspections usually take me less than five minutes on aircraft that I regularly fly. I haven't used a stopwatch but I'm pretty sure that it takes less than five minutes. I have, however, spent a long time preflighting aircraft that I'm not so familiar with.
One thing I always do that I've never seen others do it to grab each wing and move it up and down while looking for any flexing or unusual movement as the u/c is unloaded. I also push and pull the fin and tailplane to check nothing is loose.

In spite of this fairly short time (by other posters standards) I have failed the aircraft on the pre-flight several times and been unable to fly. Remember that I am talking about aircraft I am familiar with and fly regularly.

If I'm preflighting a complex aircraft for an IFR flight, then obviously it takes longer. Again I haven't used a stopwatch, but I guess I usually spend about, five minutes on the instrument and radio / nav checks.

Someone said they had never found water in the fuel. I have several times, and once it was quite a lot.

[Julian]

Couldnt tell you how long for the primary check but if landed refuelled and taking off again I check.

- Quick walk round to check no one hit me whilst I was away!
- Tyres (Just to make sure not picked up a puncture!)
- Oil
- Fuel

EA - Its a wise move to check fuel anyway if just refuelled as you want to be sure they actually filled it up! Apparently it has happened!!! DOH!