Slot transferrability

[maxalt]

I was in LHR last night and had a long slot delay. I had closed doors and sent ready message. My colleague on the next stand had the same type aircraft, the same destination, and (obviously) same company. However his slot was 30 mins before mine.

At 5 mins to his slot expiry he called up to say he couldn't make it.
I asked ATC if we could take his slot because we were ready immediately. I was told it wasn't possible because the slot is not transferrable.

Doesn't it seem crazy not to allow the flexibility to substitute when both a/c are same carrier, same type and same route? That slot was just flushed down the toilet. No wonder we have enormous delays....where's the flexibility?

[Crotalus]

Hi Max.if you were up in BFS and BOTH aircraft were restricted by the same flow regs I would see no reason not to swop.It was a regular occurrence in the past and the system worked well. A quick call to flow was usually all that was required,maybe the guys were just too busy on this occasion.Perhaps a flow type person could throw some light on it for you but as far as I am concerned one aircraft is largely the same as another for flow purposes.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I hope ATCO2, or one of the other Heathrow Tower guys replies. I'm sure there must have been a reason, although I can't think what...

[Hooligan Bill]

maxalt

With 5 minutes to go on your colleague's slot I would say it would be debatable if you could have got airborne within the slot window anyway. It takes a good ten minutes to push, start and taxi to the holding point at the regional airport I work at, let alone Heathrow.

The reason that a lot of slots go to waste is because operators are not realistic about meeting them. As soon as it becomes obvious that a slot is not going to be met, a Delay message should be sent. This serves two purposes, first, the delayed aircraft gets a more relistic slot, second, the original slot is freed up for other flights who are waiting on the reply from a Ready message. Had this been done then there is every chance you may have been allocated your colleague's slot.

At my place we have in the past managed to transfer a slot after a quick call to flow, in one case the crew on one airline offered to swap with another airline. In the end though I think it really depends on fairnessand how many people have a Ready message in the system. After all, how would you feel if you had been waiting an hour on a Ready message to find that someone had jumped the queue ahead of you?

[ATCO Two]

Would need to know callsigns, routes and times to investigate further, but I agree the system has become a lot less flexible since the instigation of the CFMU.

[maxalt]

Thanks for the replies guys. I wasn't being critical of the ATC'er in question...the LHR controllers are more than helpful usually. I guess it could have helped if I'd suggested a flight number swop myself, but I got such an emphatic 'no' to the first query that I decided not to be a pain in the erse about it!

Hooligan Bill, I fully agree with your point on being realistic...but I can't count the number of times I've called company on box 2 advising them we haven't a hope and need a new slot, only to be told quite insistently that we should press on with the first one before trying for another. I think some slot desk operators are just way too over optimistic.

[Exel]

ATCO TWO and all...

"the system has become a lot less flexible since the instigation of the CFMU."

Its not the system that has become less flexible. If the operators were to file TRUE EOBT's, amend EOBT's when requested to do so and, not update EOBT's 5 mins before or after the original CTOT then the system would be more flexible. KEEP IT REAL.
Some should try reading the Air Pilot and the CFMU Handbook.

Slot swapping is possible (but it is not as simple as it may seem) providing ALL criteria is the same with the two flights. Nine times out of ten when an airfield requests a "swap" we find differences with the flights concerned. If we can accomodate a change we WILL.

There are other methods to improve/ amend slots:-

1. Certain airfields have CTOT allowances to allocate additional time on top of the allocated CTOT. Believe it or not hundreds of slot extensions above the -5/+10 are allocated daily.

2. Talk to the FMP concerned and explain any problems, remebering once again to KEEP IT REAL as we have heard all the yarns in the book. Again slot extensions can be allocated in some cases.

3. Talk to the CFMU hepldesk. It's what we are here for.

Rememeber Flow Control is for your safety.

[Spitoon]

Sorry Exel but the system as far as controllers and pilots are concerned is a lot less flexible than it used to be when Flow was at LATCC. And, unfortunately, getting 'TRUE' EOBTs is not always as easy as you might think.

[CentralFlow]

maxalt
Suggest for the future you might try a quick call to Operations and your company specialist in negociating slots with Central Flow. The idea being direct communication might achieve desired result and reduce your apparent frustration with the system.
Otherwise its haggling time at the bazaar on frequency as Clearance Delivery/Ground contact London FMP who contact Central Flow.
The GA and Air Taxi Operators figured this out some time ago and call directly to Central Flow using mobile phones!
The Central Flow Helpdesk can be contacted on:

+322-745-1901

Include PPRUNE User id with actual callsign for best results and feedback!
Familiarisation Visits available on request for Operations Staff,
Flight Deck & Cabin Crew.
Central Flow - Brussels, Belgium