ShiftLogic: an effective tool?

[Lee Insolent]

In the old days, ATC rostering was done with pencil and fag packet. Since the advent of the ZX Spectrum there is increasing pressure to adopt software solutions offering apparent productivity gains. Aside from the tricky question of cost benefit, based upon past experience I am not easily swayed by smooth salespeople, glossy brochures, websites and the like. But I came across this website

www.ad-opt.com

for a product called ShiftLogic which appears to be in use by various ATC service providers e.g. Eurocontrol, UK NATS, German DFS, NavCanada and the Swedes.

If this quote from the website is accurate then I may need to revise my opinion......any guidance from the user community would be most welcome!

'ShiftLogic is a complete turnkey solution that can provide your organization with an optimized, efficient workforce, with the ability to manage union contracts, work rules, laws and by-laws. ShiftLogic takes employee preferences into consideration, giving employees greater freedom of choice and allows them to enjoy an improved quality of life. This goes a long way towards ensuring that they are motivated and focused on their jobs while at work - a significant factor that can save your organization time and expenses in recruiting, and training.

Recognized by large-scale organizations worldwide as an innovative and flexible tool for optimizing operations, improving flexibility, maintaining customer service and quality levels while increasing employee job satisfaction. '

[BEXIL160]

Errr... So why have the FAA / NATCA Rejected it?

In the UK it has been a COMPLETE DISASTER.

Organising the staffing, taking into account "employee preferences" is something that ShiftLogic fails to do MONTH AFTER MONTH. It also costs a small fortune to purchase / run.

Contrast this with the "old" methods. Large piece of graph paper, pencil, eraser, leave book and this months preferences. One person, half a day and.... hey presto a workable roster. Total cost = half a day in lieu owed (i.e. next to nothing) and most staff happy with what they've been asked to do.

take yr pick

BEX

[Lee Insolent]

Thanks for the speedy replies; I wonder why the US rejected it? I'll trawl through some old posts here.

I may be wrong but it appears that the majority of users are 'privatised' (after a fashion). This can't be a coincidence. If people were happy with a pencil/eraser system, why would the beancounters want to replace it? Happy people=productive people and = low hassle factor for managers.

I know from personal experience that getting a business case made for kit is the devil's own job thus there must be a dead good financial argument behind this....probably formulated by the supplier of course....as a case for taking rosters out of the workers hands purely out of suspicion/spite would never wash.

[caba]

****Logic is the appropriate name for it. My company (DFS) introduced it half a year ago. Since then, it´s broken down numerous times (preferably on weekends) and doesn´t make things easier. The rosters still have to be planned manually, since SL just can´t do it.
We have a lack of staff (as I think all the ATC-providers do) and most of the ATCOs have different sector-ratings. That I think makes it impossible for the system to produce a workable roster...

[Scott Voigt]

I believe that NATCA didn't like it due to it's inability to really make up a good schedule...

regards

[BDiONU]

Experience has shown throughout LACC, as Bex160 says, that it is particularly useless for working out an ATC roster giving the correctly validated bums on seats. The initial excuse was that, despite having been used in various other countries, the UK shift and validation system was unique and the system had to be 'adjusted' to cope. Still doesn't work properly now and appears totally inflexible.
I suspect the reason the bean counters have spent vast sums on it is because the eventual goal for LACC is individual rostering. So our staff can expect the traditional watch system to be axed. How this is supposed to improve morale which was thought to be at rock bottom, but is still sinking, is a mystery. However, in the land of the bean counter its the beans that count, not those that tend them. :mad:

[atco-matic]

Having read the sales blurb about shiftlogic, I am sure that it does at least some of what it says it does on the packet.

However the real problem here is THE MANAGEMENT!!! Take, for example, the issue of wether people prefer to do permanent nights or spins. I know, because it has been demonstrated to me, that there is a function which allows peoples preferences for the above to be entered into the system. It is a simple drop down menu and takes all of one second to do for each person. HOWEVER, the ORO have been told that it MUST NOT BE USED except for staff with childcare issues.

I know shiftlogic is crap and I am not sure wether there are other cases like this with its use, but beware about getting the whole story first (and I don't work in the ORO before you ask) and being quick to blame a pc program when really the finger should be pointing elsewhere!!

[BEXIL160]

Good point...

So far however the emplyment of ShiftLogic for whatever reason has failed to provide ANY improvements for the operational staff or the management. It has provided an enormous amount of grief, and has cost unspecified THOUSANDS in the process.

As to the non-use of preferences, could this be something to do with the fact that if you put everybody's preferences into ShiftLogic it will crash? How so? There aren't enough ATCOs/ ATSAs, and it cannot cope with the conflicts generated? Just a thought.

Rgds BEX

[Lee Insolent]

BEX

If from you're angle there's no benefit then I remain nervous of getting hooked into such a system. But your management must surely have a quantifiable business benefit from using such a system surely?

Apart from the initial outlay - hopefully a few thousand $ - it's usually the running costs and charges to buy the upissued latest software version when the supplier won't support the old version plus the cost of any customer-derived changes.

I guess that there ought to be a cost saving in manpower but from what you imply there was no additional cost with the old manual system......

.....so do you have any idea how the financial case justifies use of such a tool in your case?

LI

[Fallows]

It has been suggested to me that the reason that the management perserve with Shiftlogic and the whole ORO thing is that to cancel it would mean that they would lose face and compromise their careers. Just a thought!

[Cavemonster]

Fallows: I guess you are right.

Having created a Ministry of Rosters with a scheduling tool that allegedly cost the company/taxpayer/shareholders/customers millions (note....not thousands) it would be brave to abandon it.

I've just read the rather damning Transport committee report on NATS finances. NATS management come in for a fair degree of criticism and the shiftlogic example is a further example where (a) projects/systems are procured with dubious benefit to the user/ customer/management and then even worse (b) the blindingly obvious decision to admit it doesn't work - in our environment anyhow - is avoided/delayed whilst employee morale and confidence, never mind professional pride, goes through the floor.

An enormous cost saving could be made by asking the workforce to self-roster the way they used to with managerial monitoring, requisite support and blessing......

Getting back to the question of whether shiftlogic is good or bad, the answer is that it probably isn't suitable for our need due lack of people to roster and it hoovers up admin support employed to correct its foibles. But I believe that those who understand it better than I think it has its merits.

[250 kts]

But to be fair to some of the managers, one of the DGMs and the former boss of the ORO were against it's introduction but were over-ruled by the other DGM(named after a water bird) and the present head of the ORO(initials are what you are probably looking at this on).

[Exel]

Lee InSolent....
"But your management must surely have a quantifiable business benefit from using such a system surely?"

The benefits are :-

1 . A Sh*te totally inflexible system which manages to constantly p*ss off all operational staff. (the management aim i believe)

2. A mere initial outlay running into hundreds of thousands of pounds. (how much does pen and paper cost?)

3. A whole army of staff specifically employed to work/fiddle the system, again costing hundreds of thousands of pounds annually to administer. (thats not to say the ORO staff do there best to work it).

4. A sytem which apparently revolves around allocating staff to sectors by working thru surnames to sectors alphabetically, therefore those at the beginning of the alphabet constantly being rostered on the same sectors and those nearer Z getting whats left over.

ARgghhh - now i think about it it all makes sense :D , how about management letting the operational staff come up with a roster for them..........can ****logic work out this dilemma :-

Q. Too many managemnt divided by 10:00 - 15:00 on a 3 day week ? :D :D

A. Yes, but it cant get it to you by the 20th :D

[Exel]

Looks like EasyJet have had to cancel a number of flights due to a shift rostering cock-up by a new system......i wonder, is it the one we all know and love. ? :D .......****LOGIC perhaps ??.........

[MrApproach]

The only reason I can think of for computerising shift planning would be if someone had invented a programme that analysed shift patterns and detected overwork (ie understaff) or undesirable practises. (eg Too many night shifts) Naturally, so that staff would accept it, there would a have to be scientific and negotiated criteria, preferably backed up by legislation. The impression I get of shiftlogic is crap in - crap out, give it no rules, no "principles" and it will work the arse off everyone. Why not, it's only a machine, as atco-matic said the problem is not the programme only the people feeding it.