Flaps on stand?

[the_bird]

I was in DLM today and there were 3 a320 series AC, all different operators all sitting with flaps 1 out on stand. One even pushed back with this config. Why would they do this? Can't imagine it was ice in 35degrees, only idea we came up with was a flap overspeed check, but 3 different aircraft? And only F1, surely would be full for an inspection. Am I missing something? :E

[thetimesreader84]

In hot temperatures (>30 degrees C) it's sop to park in config 1+f, to avoid the wings getting too hot and triggering a spurious (bleed) air leak fault.

Quite often you find the fuellers won't touch the aircraft until the flaps are up, in case they contact the flaps with their bowser and get sent the bill. To be fair to them there's not a lot of room under there.

[the_bird]

That explains it, Thanks!

[Smokey Lomcevak]

As above. We do it too. The problem is that an Air Wing Leak caution is no dispatch, and can be a right pain to get rid of, even once it's verified as spurious. Apprently double FWC reset can do the trick.

Incidentally we got one in GOA recently despite leaving conf 1+F out and OAT 28. A simple bleed off and on got rid of it...

[Nightstop]

Slats out only is SOP for us in this situation, deploying 1 +F increases risk of damage from the refuel truck..Trailing edge flaps are not required, just a lazy method during taxy in practiced by IB, amongst others.

[Whatsitallabout]

@Night Stop, forgive my ignorance but how do you manage to get Slats to deploy on their own? My understanding is that, once speed is <100kts, CONF1 will deploy both Slats and Flaps.

[Cough]

Taxy in F1+F. Shut down. Select conf 0 and turn yellow pump on? (PTU off prob too)

Taxy in F0. Shut down. Select conf 1 with blue pump override?

Just a Boeing guy guessing on old knowledge!

[PENKO]

Our SOP's tell us to extend the slats only after the spurious fault shows up, so it's not SOP as such.

[stilton]

I must be missing something, never flown an Airbus.


How does leaving the slats extended while at the gate
prevent the wings from getting 'too hot ?'


And how / why is this an issue ?

[Nightstop]

Method:

On ground hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the bleed ducts in the wings resulting in “AIR L(R) WING LEAK” warnings. If such a warning occurs consider deploying Flap 1 after consideration of proximity to refuelling vehicles, ground handling equipment, etc.

1. Ensure the wing area is clear.

2. Set the BLUE PUMP OVRD to ON (Overhead Maintenance Panel).

3. Select FLAP 1 (only Slat extends).

4. When Slats extended – set the BLUE PUMP OVRD to OFF.

5. Select the Flap Lever UP – this prevents inadvertent Flap extension if HYD power is applied before Slats have been retracted.

[PENKO]

It's like opening your window a crack on a hot and sunny car park.

Anyway, has anyone recently experienced this spurious fault? How hot was it outside? I was in SPU the other day with 35 degrees, about half the Airbusses had their flaps extended on stand. We did not bother, never been a problem.

[pineteam]

Method:

On ground hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the bleed ducts in the wings resulting in “AIR L(R) WING LEAK” warnings. If such a warning occurs consider deploying Flap 1 after consideration of proximity to refuelling vehicles, ground handling equipment, etc.

1. Ensure the wing area is clear.

2. Set the BLUE PUMP OVRD to ON (Overhead Maintenance Panel).

3. Select FLAP 1 (only Slat extends).

4. When Slats extended – set the BLUE PUMP OVRD to OFF.

5. Select the Flap Lever UP – this prevents inadvertent Flap extension if HYD power is applied before Slats have been retracted.

Interesting. We were only told to set flaps 1+F after landing but it's true most of the places we go, they refuse to refuel the plane when flaps are extended. Thanks for the tips.

It's like opening your window a crack on a hot and sunny car park.

Anyway, has anyone recently experienced this spurious fault? How hot was it outside? I was in SPU the other day with 35 degrees, about half the Airbusses had their flaps extended on stand. We did not bother, never been a problem.

Same here. I normally never do it also unless I don't need to refuel. And never heard anyone in my company getting that warning. I guess it wise to do it if you operate in extremely hot temperature areas...
Some guys like to leave flaps 1 after landing and when entering the gate set the flaps to zero... Does it really make a significant difference, I don't know. Lol

[sierra_mike]

have been told it's no longer an issue on newer A320 MSNs as the bleed system has been modified. hearsay though...

[Uplinker]

@stilton:

I can't remember now whether leaving the Slats out suppresses the caution, or increases cooling, and cannot find a reference to it in the manuals.

However, once the caution has triggered, it is a 'No dispatch' condition, so many operators leave the Slats/Flaps at 1 during a transit stop.

Interestingly, the leak detector loops trigger at temperatures above 124 degrees C around the ducts, but the SOP is/was to keep the Slats/Flaps out at outside air temperatures above 30 degrees.

Our new SOP is to retract flaps on arrival on stand and to run them out after the refueller has gone - meaning one pilot has to stand outside and make sure the wing area is clear while the Slats/Flaps are moving out. As if we haven't got enough to do during a turnaround.

[vilas]

Uplinker
SOP after Landing
On ground, hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the bleed ducts in the wings, resulting in “AIR L (R) WING LEAK” warnings. Such warnings may be avoided during transit by keeping the slats in Configuration 1 when the OAT is above 30 °C. To avoid damage on the RTLU (Rudder Travel Limit Unit) mechanical stop, the SLATS/FLAPS should be retracted before all ADIRS are set to OFF simultaneously.

[gearlever]

Yeah, as Vilas pointed out SOP im my outfit (now retired).
At some airports fueling personal refused to attach pipes with slats out.....

[Uplinker]

Hi vilas:

Yes I read that bit in the FCOM but it does not answer my question - which is; how does it avoid the warning? Is it by simple ambient air cooling or by suppression of the warning (when Slats in config 1 and no engines running for example)?

How does 30 degree ambient air temperature get the ducts above 124 degrees?

[safelife]

Ambient air cooling, the temperature is reached thru a combination of high OAT plus sun radiation onto the wing.

[RetiredBA/BY]

Interesting question !

I boarded a BA A320 in Bologna recently and both TE AND LE flaps were extended (temp was over 30C) Suspecting a technical problem (we only ever left flaps out on Boeings after landing on snow/ice contaminated runways) I asked the cabin manager if that was the case. After a flight deck visit she advised me it was SOP in hot weather to avoid a false warning and we departed on schedule.

Later my son- in- law (a former 320 TRE) confirmed flap extension in hot weather is SOP as told to me by the cabin crew !

[Cough]

we only ever left flaps out on Boeings after landing on snow/ice contaminated runways

These days, you can also add a list of non normal checklists that instruct crew to leave flaps deployed after landing on my electric Boeing!

[BAe 146-100]

Its still in most FCOM's although not followed in many companies, especially in Asia due to the risk of damage to the wing (some companies won't refuel you) on the ground plus the rudder travel limiter wear if you do a re align with Conf 1+F, thus many operators decided to scrap it.

My previous company was following that procedure up until a few months ago, where they changed it to retract in all cases, after a email from Airbus saying it was confined mainly to Middle East operators.

[Escape Path]

As others have said, we do have that procedure in our FCOM too. However, I haven't heard of anyone ever getting the warning and we don't have any issue with refueling either in our Caribbean destinations

[Superpilot]

It's bizarre that neither I or anyone in my company has seen this fault in the last 10 years yet others do so on a regular bases. Yes we fly to the same 35deg destinations. Anyone know if the sharkletted aircraft have the same issue?

[clark y]

Flaps are out on the stand regularly in Indonesia by Garuda. I have also heard of the bleed fault occurring (rarely) in Australia with extreme temps. 45 Celsius plus.
I wonder what the chance of the fault occurring is due to the wind as well. A very hot still day would not allow the airflow around the aircraft.

[joe falchetto 64]

It's bizarre that neither I or anyone in my company has seen this fault in the last 10 years yet others do so on a regular bases. Yes we fly to the same 35deg destinations. Anyone know if the sharkletted aircraft have the same issue?

Yes they do: it happened to me last week. Company SOP do not allow for conf 1 in this case, because the risk assessment was negative, regarding the increased risk of damages during transit; company decided to accept the risk to have the ECAM warning triggered.

[BAe 146-100]

Well it appears they finally fixed it with the A350, but everything from the A310 to the A380 seems to have this fault, at least with the A300/A310 they could just drop slats only on stand.