RAF " workman " helps himself.

[westernhero]

RAF workman in Marham filmed stealing 1000mph TORNADO fuel | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4244580/RAF-workman-42-filmed-stealing-1000mph-TORNADO-fuel.html)

Time to dump that can in your boot Hoskins ? :=

[NutLoose]

Waste fuel, the RAF were probably having to pay for it to be disposed off...... it wouldn't be doing his car a whole lot of good either, as AVTUR has no lubricants in it compared to diesel, it is just refined paraffin.

Coakley's vehicles were handed over to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, including a seven and a half ton lorry, after he dodged paying tax
I suppose arguing the toss that Aviation fuel is zero rated, so there would have been no tax to pay on it would not have gone down well. I know, once out of a jet it is then liable for taxes in certain conditions.


..

[rolling20]

I believe during WW2 it wasn't unusual for personal vehicles of aircrew to be fueled by 100 Octane!

[Tankertrashnav]

As fire officer at Seletar I was responsible for 45 gallon drums of time expired Avgas which we used to get given for fire practices. As an empoverished flying officer, with no flying pay, and still trying to live the Singapore high life, it was very tempting, but not a drop ever found its way into my old Zephyr - just not worth to save a few $.

[NutLoose]

I use and have gallons of Avgas at work, would I ever put it into my car.... No, bar the fact it wouldn't like leaded fuel, the reasoning is the same as with aviation piston oils, they are designed to run in aircraft engines that have different seals etc and can screw up parts of your engine quite happily...



.. spotted the mistanke PDR1 ;)

[Davef68]

I suppose arguing the toss that Aviation fuel is zero rated, so there would have been no tax to pay on it would not have gone down well. I know, once out of a jet it is then liable for taxes in certain conditions.




Even waste cooking oil becomes liable to tax if you put it in a vehicle

[NutLoose]

Remember guys although some aviation fuels are zero rated tax wise, once out of the Aviation usage tax becomes payable on it for certain things.

[NutLoose]

Years ago I went to a Shell seminar on the stuff, one fascinating thing came out, when producing Avgas if they couldn't make the cut, it would be blended into car fuel, however when they got rid of lead out of car fuel it couldn't be used, so they had to pay a specialist disposal company to burn it for them and remove the contaminants from the plant exhaust.

[PDR1]

I use and have gallons of Avtur at work, would I ever put it into my car.... No, bar the fact it wouldn't like leaded fuel [...]

Leaded Avtur?

:\

PDR

[Sloppy Link]

Contam AVTUR......best motorcycle chain cleaner I've come across.

[ACW342]

At Phoenix GC (Brüggen) 45 Gallon drum of waste Avtur +5 gallon can of waste engine oil = 50 gallons of diesel for cable retrieve Mercedes 180Ds (scrapped TUV failures) My children, 14 and 12, loved the competition to see who could get back up the taxiway to the winch before the glider dropped the cable. When a 180 died, we just pulled another one out of the shed.

[Fonsini]

In my yoof and while working my way through college I took a job as a general labourer with a local building contractor, the painting team told me their last assignment was at a major docks and they were given an old Ford Anglia as a runaround due to the distances involved running from one location to another with all their gear. The painters discovered that not only could they run the car on the mysterious liquid they recovered from the huge bulk fuel tanker offload pipes, but that it now had performance levels approaching a Formula 1 car. When finally sent in for a service due to engine problems, the mechanic asked what the #@$# they had been running it on since the cylinder head was completely burned out and the engine was a total write off.

Moral of the story, cheap fuel isn't always cheap.

[Pontius Navigator]

I guess as the theft was an On and Off one for a couple of year, lets call it 'as required' he may have cut the avtur with diesel.

[Evanelpus]

I believe during WW2 it wasn't unusual for personal vehicles of aircrew to be fueled by 100 Octane!

Forget WW2.

I knew someone who ran his car on Shackelton fuel for years and he claimed it didn't harm the engine one jot.

[Danny42C]

When home just after the war, ran a 1931 Standard Big Nine (paid £165 for it, which is about what it would've cost in 1931).

WM 5733, where are you now ?

"Pool" petrol was then strictly rationed (and pretty vile stuff, anyway). Found that my engine would run on a half-and-half mixture of this stuff and domestic paraffin (only 9d a gallon, and off ration).

But only if it were warm.....what to do ?.....Solution: first thing in morning, take float chamber off carb (just two bolts), chuck out the ounce or so contents, refill with a bit of "Ronsonol" lighter fluid (any tobacconist), bolt float chamber back.

Would start after a swing or two, by the time the Ronsonol had worked through, would keep running on Dannymixture. EDIT: Remember a yacht, the auxiliary engine had two tanks, you started on petrol and changed over to paraffin after a minute or two. Same idea.

Policeman on Point Duty (remember them ?) would sniff suspiciously, but as everything on the road was emitting clouds of blue smoke, never challenged.

But they were good days...................

Danny.

[Mogwi]

Yes, I remember tractors and combine harvesters starting on petrol but running on "TVO" which I believe was paraffin. Much later, I remember the married patch at Güt smelling of burnt AVTUR during cold spells! Hmmm.

[Wander00]

What do you think heated the Wyton swimming pool......

[NutLoose]

What do you think heated the Wyton swimming pool...... Wouldn't it just float on the surface and ruin ones hair? :E




I seem to remember it going in the bowser tanks during cold spells to stop the diesel waxing.

[Herod]

What do you think heated the Wyton swimming pool......

Probably the same liquid as warms the compost heap in winter; but we won't go there.

[harrym]

Danny & others-

During those 'no basic' months spanning 1947-8, from time to time I ran my 350cc Royal Enfield on methanol; however, I was also entitled to a small ration of petrol on account of having to attend regular RAFVR training some miles away. To avoid having to drain and refill the tank – a risky procedure as methanol is an excellent paint stripper - I kept petrol in the bike's own tank, and mounted an auxiliary 'tank' of about one gallon capacity on the carrier which fed fuel to the carb via a syphon set-up and some sort of change-over arrangement (details now forgotten). It was also necessary to fit a larger main jet, which only took a few minutes, but was worth the trouble; not just for the increase in mobility, but the augmentation of power and torque was quite something!

[4mastacker]

........after military police were tipped off that he was systematically stealing waste aviation fuel worth £660 from RAF Marham in west Norfolk.......

My bold. Pah!! Small time crook. Many years ago, part-loads of fuel being delivered by road tanker, were being nicked from a well known RAF station in the west country, until the gang were caught.

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

I know of an RAF SNCO who was court martialled for disposing of "surplus" drumstock AVTUR directly into the central heating oil tank of his married quarter. He was totally blatant about it and unsurprisingly someone reported him to the RAF Police.

Shame the old 4 star petrol is no longer generally available as it was until only a very few years back from a small number of specialist suppliers in my area. My classic competition car's old tech engine much preferred it to modern super unleaded. I did some research and discovered that AVGAS "LL" still contains four times as much tetra-ethyl lead as four star did. The "Low lead" is only compared to how much it used to contain. For off-road competition use I sometimes added one gallon of AVGAS to four of super unleaded. Ran like a dream; it improved the knock resistance very well, so I was able to advance the ignition timing a few degrees and the torque improvement was quite noticeable. An old trick used by many amateur race car owners.

The reason AVGAS should never be used in a modern car, even in small quantities, is because the products of combustion include lead salts which coat catalytic converters and lambda sensors, rendering them inoperative.

[pulse1]

One company I worked for were quite happy with the power cuts of the 70's because it allowed them to use contaminated avtur to run their standby generators. Not only did it save them the cost of disposal, they saved on the electricity as well. During the 3 day weeks they were able to operate full weeks too.

[NutLoose]

I know of an RAF SNCO who was court martialled for disposing of "surplus" drumstock AVTUR directly into the central heating oil tank of his married quarter. He was totally blatant about it and unsurprisingly someone reported him to the RAF Police.

Or the enterprising chap at Odiham that had his freezer and fridge in his separate garage on the married patch, nothing wrong there, except you could blatantly see the extension lead coming over the fence and running into the singly block near the fence with a sign attached to the plug saying please do not switch off.... I was surprised how long it took for them to cotton on to the fact. :}

[mopardave]

Former colleague of mine was in the M.T. at Wyton in the mid '80's......ran his triumph gt6 on the stuff! He also borrowed the station coach or mini bus to move house....his mate in the M.T. drove him home for lunch in the Staish's staff car.....pennants flying. They were most amused when the S.W.O. threw one up as they passed! Left an M.T. 4 tonner outside his mum and dad's house in Bradford overnight during an impromptu overnight stop on his way down from Lossie I think? He was one extremely wobbly character who went on to become a big hitter in the Jehova's Witness's!!!!
Apologies for thread drift but it just makes you wonder what else goes adrift!!

[MPN11]

I moved my possessions from Norfolk to a now-defunct London station in a 4-tonner. It was logged as a training run for the experienced civvy driver ;)

[mopardave]

This guy won't have sought permission from anyone! Don't know how he got away with some of the stuff he got up to....and he was no bull sh*tter....had me in stitches!!!!!!! No wonder he found religion!!!!!

[Fonsini]

I also did a stint working with HM Customs on the Ellesmere Port RFTU - their Road Fuel Testing Unit. Specifically they roam around looking for "red diesel" as used in farm machinery, and the back of the van is a mobile testing laboratory able to check for any number of tax free "extenders" designed to mix with regular fuel and thus deprive the crown of its shekels.

I wonder if they still have them - this was all many moons ago.

[Coltishall. loved it]

Everyone in the 70's 80's and 90's used to to run their diesel cars off waste avtur (not me gov)
And bung it in their heating oil tanks also. Works the same, just smells like an aeroplane has just passed over.
I know people in tank bays and pol who have retired with the millions they have made in waste avtur? (cue the daily fkwit mail alert)
Also good for starting bbq's, they say?

[NutLoose]

Works the same, just smells like an aeroplane has just passed over

Strangely enough it doesn't, it puts out less heat than Heating oil.

I remember we picked up a couple of Civi MT drivers on the way back from Germany with a Chevy estate or escort estate they had been sent out to return to the UK.
We brought them back from Gutersloh in one hop in a Chinook, asking the driver what he was planning to do with the couple of extra days he now had off, he replied he planned to take the missus out somewhere nice to put the required miles on the car and to use up the fuel and accommodation monies they had given him for the trip back to the UK.... I hope they both had a good time. :E


I also did a stint working with HM Customs on the Ellesmere Port RFTU - their Road Fuel Testing Unit

Yes they do, there was one of those Police programmes in the last year showing them doing spot check at a services, I have also seen one last year near us.

[Slow Biker]

Young and naive in 1963, I didn't give it much thought when on night shift the cpl told me to 'stand there and call me quickly if you see anyone coming' as he disappeared into the garage with a can. Now the power pack used to provide hydraulic pressure to the jacks used to load Vulcan bomb carriers was powered by a Ford 100E engine, so need I say more? When I cottoned on, night shift became a game of dodge the cpl. Anyway, my Norton took 4 star.

[MAINJAFAD]

Apparently, he wasn't the only one caught doing it, just the worst offender by a country mile and a number of other contractors found them suddenly unemployed.

One I remember was scandal that happened at a long closed radar station in Northern Ireland about a year before it closed. One day the boys in suits from P&SS NI descended on the station and closed the supply section for a couple of days. Next thing that happens is OC Supply is gone, OC Admin is gone and the Station Commander is gone. Due to the security situation, all of the white fleet vehicles were hired with NI registration plates and the station had a normal petrol pump to refuel them. Apparently the OC supply was selling it to the locals, along with normal red fuels and other items out of the supply sqn. The Station execs found out about it and tried to cover it up (The fact that OC Eng and Supply remained suggests he was all for nailing the individual).

[Willard Whyte]

Christ, in the 90s Lyneham plod used to have palpitations if anyone was caught using blue bin bags for domestic rubbish.

[Dan Gerous]

No diesel on Ascension in 82, we used a 99-1 mix of avtur and oil to run all the ground equipment. Worked OK.

[Flight_Idle]

I did more tractor & winch hours than I care to remember, run on scrap AVTUR with the addition of some OM15 for diesel pump lubrication.

It does work.

[Warmtoast]

I was a member of the RAF Thornhill, 5 FTS (Rhodesia) gliding club back in 1952-53. We had a “Primary,” probably the most elementary form of flying machine then still flying; I’m sure the Wright Brothers would feel very much at home with it. Initial flights were flown in this "Primary" before eventually graduating to a "Tutor".
The tow truck was fuelled by high-octane fuel "milked" from the station's Harvards - so purloining fuel for leisure purposes, albeit for a sanctioned leisure activity goes back to 1952 at least.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/PrimaryGlider-Airborne_zps056a0359.jpg
My first six-foot above the ground flight in the "Primary" as it was dragged across the airfield by the tow-truck.
Mind you the club still charged 1/- (5p) for each launch, probably charged to repair the tow-truck's engine valve-seals which didn't agree with aviation high octane fuel!

WT

[megan]

AVTUR has no lubricants in it compared to diesel, it is just refined paraffinThere are no specifications laid down for lubricity of jet fuel, but,

In recent years the quality of petroleum feedstocks used by refineries has decreased. This has necessitated the use of severe refinery processes in order to produce jet fuels of high thermal stability and cleanliness. Unfortunately these processes remove the compounds that are responsible for a fuel's inherent lubricity. As a result, fuel lubricated engine components are experiencing greater wear and mechanical failure.

The incidence of lubricity related problems in commercial and military jet aircraft has increased over the past twenty years. This is a result of the need for more severe refinery processes to remove trace fuel species that adversely affect thermal stability and water removal by coalescence. These processes also remove trace polar species that are responsible for a fuel's inherent lubricity properties.

In the late 1960s, it was serendipitously found that a pipeline corrosion inhibitor had a significant effect on lubricity enhancement. The additive's original intended purpose was to decrease corrosion to fuel handling systems and transfer lines. The additive is effective as a corrosion inhibitor due to its surface-active nature. The active ingredient in most corrosion inhibitors is a dimeric organic acid, usually dilinoleic acid (DLA). It is the surface-active nature of the dimeric acid that causes the corrosion inhibitor to be an effective lubricity enhancer.

The use of a corrosion inhibitor as a lubricity enhancer is now required in all military JP-4 and JP-5 jet fuel. Unfortunately the additive can hinder water removal by coalescence. In other cases a fuel may have adequate lubricity initially and would preclude the use of the additive. Currently there is no lubricity specification for either commercial or military jet fuel. This has been due primarily to the lack of a test method; hence, the mandatory addition of the additive to assure adequate lubricity.
https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/Merge/Vol-35_2-0003.pdf

[MAINJAFAD]

run on scrap AVTUR with the addition of some OM15 for diesel pump lubrication.

9/1 AVTUR to OM15 ratio was what I was told powered the winches and MT on the two clubs I flew at in the 1980s.

[oldpax]

I know a camp where a petrol scam ran for x years!Collected on friday afternoons and put in your boot!!A rover 75 ran well on it ,no problems !Rule 1 dont bring back your empty AL-5 drums!!Rule 2 if your heard talking about it then the scheme is shut down!!A solo airman was caught and sent to Colchester for a while.

[BEagle]

When I was volunteered to be OC the station gliding club at an RAF station in East Anglia, since squaddified, we were permitted to use waste AVTUR in the winch and retrieve truck. Or so I was told - not that I bothered to ask for any proof.

One day I was over at the club when a Landrover turned up out of which hopped on of our members, who was a corporal on one of the flying squadrons. Spotting me, he said "Ah....Oh, Sir, Air Traffic have been on the phone to us, they've been trying to call you." I thanked him and went over to the clubhouse to use the phone..."No sir, it wasn't us", replied the ATC local assistant...."Nor us", said his colleague on the switchboard. As we were speaking, through the window I saw the corporal looking around rather shiftily, before removing certain green cans from the back of the Landrover, which he handed to his mate before driving back to his work.

:hmm: On closer inspection a little later, I found that the empty cans were labelled OM15.

But of course I hadn't seen them being delivered, had I - I'd been on the phone at the time...:\

[ian16th]

Now the power pack used to provide hydraulic pressure to the jacks used to load Vulcan bomb carriers was powered by a Ford 100E engine, so need I say more?

The standard PE set in the mid 50's had the Ford 100E engine.

There was a story went around Lindholme where a clapped out Anglia had a quiet engine swap done over one weekend.

[The Nip]

Some years ago a study was done looking at the the use of a single fuel being used in the FIs. This was mainly looking at the HRS at Hillcove and Fox Bay.

Taking into account of the heating for the accommodation and running the 2 L/R it was judged that using Avtur in the vehicles would only take about 20K miles from the expected life of the engines. The generator would be negligible for it's life span.

[pontifex]

One of the things good quality Avtur is useful for is in model aircraft gas turbine engines. They are becoming increasingly popular. I wonder if the culprit was into aeromoddeling

[Pontius Navigator]

pontiflex, I think a 7.5 tonne truck disproves your theory :)

[NutLoose]

One of the things good quality Avtur is useful for is in model aircraft gas turbine engines. They are becoming increasingly popular. I wonder if the culprit was into aeromoddeling

What... like a Reaper? with the amount he was nicking.

[NickB]

I was told once by someone who had a car with a large V8 in it, that when working on a Devon squadron, any 100LL collected when legitimately draining the tanks on the Devons found it's way into his car... diluted down, the car ran without any issues at all.

My father' cousin also ran his old Austin on 100LL when serving at St Eval in the 50s... by all accounts it had sparks coming out of the exhaust, so not sure how long the engine lasted on that one!

[Haraka]

My father' cousin also ran his old Austin on 100LL when serving at St Eval in the 50s..
I can vouch for the fact that he wasn't the only one doing that at St. Eval at the time Also for circular dope tin labels, which had a crown on them, being inserted in tax disc holders which they fitted perfectly, then being passed off as "official " to the local civil police.

[Fareastdriver]

I can vouch for the fact that he wasn't the only one doing that at St. Eval at the time

Now the truth can be told

[Wander00]

ISTR my Dad ran his car on a petrol/TVO mix for a while

[Geriaviator]

Two airmen were court-martialled at Binbrook in 1951 for stealing petrol. As I recall from childhood there, my father told me it was impossible to fully drain the tanks of a Lincoln in normal tail-down stance, so the remaining dregs were allowed to flow onto the dispersal and the surrounding grass. The airmen had collected this Avgas in a mop bucket for use in their motorbikes, and paid the price in jankers ...
Prolonged use of avgas 130/145 will knacker valves and seats of roadgoing engines. Less exotically, my Austin Champ (£47.10s in Army disposal auction 1967) ran beautifully on a 50/50 mix of three star and paraffin, just as well as it did 13 mpg whether driven hard or gently, with trailer or without.

[NutLoose]

Ahh ex military surplus, I made sure I had no tools with the crows foot on when I left, I was fastidious about it, coming out the RAF I bought my first proper tool kit for going contracting, it was a King Dick one and cost me well over £1000, which in 1989 was quite a bit.... It was delivered and I got it home, it was beautiful and everything in it had been individually wrapped at the factory.... As i peeled off the individual wrappings I found that half of the tools had the damned crows foot on them. :sad:

[racedo]

Guy I grew up close to was heavy into Motorbike racing, good racer as well as includes some races in IOM TT in his career. Never won but hell finishing is a win there.

He used to head for small civil airport before a race to stock up on AvGas................. doubt it is same quality as FJ standard but he did rather well in races and never got rumbled.

Doubt it did much damage to the engines but they were always taking them apart between races anyway for cleaning etc

[Pontius Navigator]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/PrimaryGlider-Airborne_zps056a0359.jpg

Ah, that is the beast that put me off flying. Strapped to the front of the dart, two teams of boys set out across the cricket pitch pulling the bungee ropes. When they eventually ran out of puff, the ground tether was released one was literally catapulted across the crease. Two large spoilers were designed to prevent one getting airborne and attacking the 2.35 on the down line. It didn't stop our doughty commander getting airborne and bending the skid on landing.

[The Nip]

1797

This wasn't me but this is what the RAF side of CCF did week in and week out.

I am not sure if AVM M Brecht is on this one.

[Lightning5]

Many years ago ( mid 60's) I was I/C duty crew at Leuchars. Rather busy night, high wind, and a few diversions including Shacks and a RN Pembroke(?). Pembroke was duly filled to the brim and hangared. Up in the am to find that the Pembroke was empty, some nocturnal thieves drained the lot. Never heard a thing Sir !!!

[Alber Ratman]

All my tools have no arrows on them either. When I was working for ATC Lasham a few years ago, a Polish Connie at Lasham was caught nicking waste Jet A1 and taken to court. Shortly afterwards HMRC paid a view to ATCL's Southend MRO. A lot of people were bricking it as the vultures would be about any aircraft being defuelled for tank entry. 4 cars were chosen (Obviously diesel) and two were found to be non compliant and a 500 pound fine with impounding without payment. My mate was one of them, that was a classic when they asked him to test his car, his reply was "Don't bother, it is red diesel".

[Fareastdriver]

I posted on another thread about a place called Sepulot in Sabah, North Borneo and it reminded me about Avtur.

All our fuel was parachuted in by Beverley and there was no way of returning the empty drums so the were rolled, or marshalled by helicopter, into the river. They would float downstream and the local Muruts would pull them out to use for a multitude of uses. Foundations for longhouses, water storage, you name it. There would be about two gallons of fuel left at the bottom and they would use this for cooking or something.

We, the Air Force left and handed the operation over to the Navy. The situation changed. The locals now had to collect the empty drums and apparently they had to pay for the remaining fuel. There were arrangements, so I was told, that a full drum would be available if required. M$25 being the suggested price.

I don't know how true it was but my airmen were being charged at a 100% mark up for their cans of Tiger.

[Pontius Navigator]

1797

This wasn't me but this is what the RAF side of CCF did week in and week out.

That's posh, we didn't have a launch rail, that might have been a little less daunting as it might have held the missile in a straight line a little longer. It was a real PITA but if the wind was wet or not straight down the Valley we were spared for that week. I think the glider was stored down a track near the rifle range and had to be dragged a quarter mile or more to the sports field. Hated dragging it, hated erecting it, hated sitting on it, hated it.

[4mastacker]

That's posh, we didn't have a launch rail, ...................

That "posh" launch rail looks like sections of the old Beverley rollers. Former AQMs of a certain era might be able to confirm.

[langleybaston]

crows foot? No pheon!

[NutLoose]

You know the terms half inch and pinch for stealing comes from the crows foot.... originally in Nelsons time, wooden warships were bolted / nailed together with long copper rods, as copper was a valuable commodity they were stamped with the crows foot every 1/2 inch along their length.
Therefore if you were caught with them, it would mean severe punishment in Nelsons time,( death or deportation etc ) so they used to pinch off sections and leave the crows foot parts behind, thus stealing the 1/2 inch clear sections, hence half inch or pinch....

Here endeth the history lesson :O